Omnivore rage!!!

Vegetarians are frequently attacked online for not eating meat. After reading the news today I am so pleased I don't eat meat. It would seem that meat eaters have more problems than mad cow disease and avian flu - must be the meat that makes them so aggressive.

"Assault With A Pork Chop"
www.thesmokinggun.com...

and "Man Charged With Sandwich Rage in Houston" Note it was a cheese and STEAK sandwich that drove this man to threaten to kill the manager.
apnews.myway.com...

I only ask that omnivore advocates show me any proof (not hearsay but with reliable online links) of a vegetarian attacking another person either with tofu or any fruit or vegetable?

Originally posted by Mynaeris
I only ask that omnivore advocates show me any proof (not hearsay but with reliable online links) of a vegetarian attacking another person either with tofu or any fruit or vegetable?

Isn't it well known about throwing rotten fruit? Perhaps some more meat in the diet might help that behavior.

Rotting fruit
Rotten apple
England has a long tradition of throwing rotten fruit. In medieval times we liked to put people in the stocks and pelt them with stinking tomatoes. Nowadays it seems anyone in the public eye could fall victim to our organic missiles � Tony Blair�s stance on Iraq has led protestors to take aim at him, for example. And when David Blaine sat in a glass box above the Thames, it seemed that many people felt it their national right to throw stuff at him as well!

Link

This search will show many, many, many more...
www.google.com...



I didn't show just vegetarians because I don't think either of the two cases you sited were strictly meat eaters.

[edit on 10-12-2004 by ZeddicusZulZorander]

Yes eating meat does make ppl more aggressive.

In the wild carnivores are very aggressive.
Veggies and omni's are usually pretty mellow.

food.consumercide.com...

Originally posted by ANOK
Yes eating meat does make ppl more aggressive.

In the wild carnivores are very aggressive.
Veggies and omni's are usually pretty mellow.

food.consumercide.com...

That is because the carnivores EAT the herbivores. Not sure if you realized that is how it works. In that case nature is going to make them more agressive so that they do not die out.

Just a little thing called the circle of life.

Originally posted by ZeddicusZulZorander

Originally posted by Mynaeris
I only ask that omnivore advocates show me any proof (not hearsay but with reliable online links) of a vegetarian attacking another person either with tofu or any fruit or vegetable?

Isn't it well known about throwing rotten fruit? Perhaps some more meat in the diet might help that behavior.

Rotting fruit
Rotten apple
England has a long tradition of throwing rotten fruit. In medieval times we liked to put people in the stocks and pelt them with stinking tomatoes. Nowadays it seems anyone in the public eye could fall victim to our organic missiles – Tony Blair’s stance on Iraq has led protestors to take aim at him, for example. And when David Blaine sat in a glass box above the Thames, it seemed that many people felt it their national right to throw stuff at him as well!

Link

This search will show many, many, many more...
www.google.com...

I didn't show just vegetarians because I don't think either of the two cases you sited were strictly meat eaters.

[edit on 10-12-2004 by ZeddicusZulZorander]

The rotten fruit throwers must me omnivores. If it were vegetarians they would appreciate the value of all fruit - there are always animals/insects etc that could eat the rotten fruit. Ominivores on the other hand have no appreciation for fruit.

As for the two omnivores in the original post - the conclusion was drawn from (1) the steak sandwich - no vegetarian would order a steak sandwich, and (2) the pork chop was the inmates food. However on the other hand you have failed to substantiate that the rotten fruit throwers were vegetarian.

Next batter up!

@Zedicus

Hehe OK I'll give you that one.
Yeah taken out of context those two statements don't really stand up.

But what is it in nature that gives carnies their aggression?
It's their diet.
Read the link I provided, it will put what I said into better context.

Originally posted by ANOK
@Zedicus

Hehe OK I'll give you that one.
Yeah taken out of context those two statements don't really stand up.

But what is it in nature that gives carnies their aggression?
It's their diet.
Read the link I provided, it will put what I said into better context.

So if we feed lions peachs,will they be mellow?
I doubt it.
I'm all about freedom of choice,and i respect peoples right to not eat meat,but what makes me mad is people who try to FORCE their opinions on other people.
I will always eat meat,and i will be thankfull that it is there for me to have.
Without the consumption of meat,none of us would be here.
ever try to grow fruits in the dead of winter?

Poor vegetarians theyll never know how good bacon tastes. Whats so wrong with eating meat. If we didnt eat meat our brains wouldnt have evolved. Thats just how it is.

Originally posted by Croat56
Poor vegetarians theyll never know how good bacon tastes.

Whats so wrong with eating meat. If we didnt eat meat our brains wouldnt have evolved. Thats just how it is.

Flaws in argument:

1) Assumption that vegetarians never tasted bacon, ie we were born vegetarian. Most, if not all western vegetarians choose to be vegetarian, some for health reasons, some for spiritual reasons, some for moral reasons and many for a combination of reasons; and
2) You are implying that man evolved because he ate meat? I can't wait to see what carnivores will evolve into as their diets consist solely of meat? What about cannibals will they evolve into the ultimate human as they prey on the "apex of evolution"? Have no idea where your idea that brain evolution stemmed from eating meat.

Originally posted by ANOK
Yes eating meat does make ppl more aggressive.

In the wild carnivores are very aggressive.
Veggies and omni's are usually pretty mellow.

Not all Omni's are not know to be mellow the bear is one and not very mellow. Also a Herbivore kills more people in Africa then all of the Carnivores combined the Hippo not a very mellow animal.

In the wild Carnivores are also smarter then herbivores It takes alot of protein for a large brain and it takes more brain power to hunt a animal then it does to hunt a blade of grass. The largest jump in human brain size came when humans started to eat meat it pretty much double in size.

My ancestors didnt claw their way up the food chain to have me eat just plants

Where do you guys get your info from?

If we didn't eat meat our brains would have not have evovled?
That's a new one

How about doing some research before ya'll try to spread your wisdom on a forum?

And Samhain if you had read any of that link I provided you would know the answer.

I think what was intended by "if we didn't eat meat, we wouldn't have evolved" is that we would not have developed weapons as early, or processes to store meat safely, or have discovered as many uses for fire... that sorta thing. The processes by which we hunted, prepared, cooked, ate, preserved, and stored meat not only become more advanced through the ages, but also led to further advancements in technology that, though by today's standards would seem primative, were nonetheless vital in the chain that brought us all here today. While these are signifcant in their own right, they are not evolution, except as an adjective.

However, the statement is also not entirely inaccurate. We did, in fact, evolve as the result of our meat-eating. Our teeth are indisputable evidence of it, as well as the set of our eyes, bone structure, and so forth. So was our consumption of plants, which are seen in the same features. It is also seen in the way our thought processes have advanced, because of the need to find new ways to outsmart prey that has become wary of man.

I have absolutely no problem with someone wanting to be a vegetarian. That's fine with me, it's their choice, and it doesn't stop me from enjoying a cheeseburger or a steak, just like my enjoying those things doesn't prevent them from eating a particularly well-prepared eggplant or pastry.

What I do take issue with is ignorance, especially willful ignorance. When someone tries to tell me that humans are not meant to eat meat, or that eating meat is unhealthy, that smacks of ignorance. Tell me it's against your religion, your ethical beliefs, or your own sense of morality, but don't try to convince me of blatant lies and twisted truths about health, when I have thousands of years of history and science proving otherwise.

Anything can become unhealthy in excess. Eating too much meat is just as unhealthy as not eating it at all, though in different ways. So please, no lectures from either side. The only truely healthy diet is a well-balanced one, an omnivorous one.

Originally posted by thelibra

However, the statement is also not entirely inaccurate. We did, in fact, evolve as the result of our meat-eating. Our teeth are indisputable evidence of it, as well as the set of our eyes, bone structure, and so forth. So was our consumption of plants, which are seen in the same features. It is also seen in the way our thought processes have advanced, because of the need to find new ways to outsmart prey that has become wary of man.

NO NO NO you are quite wrong I would rather not paraphrase what others have explained so much better but rather just give you links disproving your "facts"

" Humans are most often described as "omnivores". This classification is based on the "observation" that humans generally eat a wide variety of plant and animal foods. However, culture, custom and training are confounding variables when looking at human dietary practices. Thus, "observation" is not the best technique to use when trying to identify the most "natural" diet for humans. While most humans are clearly "behavioral" omnivores, the question still remains as to whether humans are anatomically suited for a diet that includes animal as well as plant foods.

A better and more objective technique is to look at human anatomy and physiology. Mammals are anatomically and physiologically adapted to procure and consume particular kinds of diets. (It is common practice when examining fossils of extinct mammals to examine anatomical features to deduce the animal's probable diet.) Therefore, we can look at mammalian carnivores, herbivores (plant-eaters) and omnivores to see which anatomical and physiological features are associated with each kind of diet. Then we can look at human anatomy and physiology to see in which group we belong."
www.ecologos.org...
www.beyondveg.com...

The evolutions of our brains is in direct relation to our changes in diet.
A Large brain requires LARGE calorie intake.The calorie intake of a meat food is considerably higher than that of a corresponding amount of a vegitable food .
read this......

"Surprisingly, a big brain is not an obvious evolutionary advantage--at least not immediately. For example, a large brain requires an inordinate amount of care and feeding--a diet high in protein--and exquisite temperature control in order to function properly. Increases in brain size would therefore drive changes in early human diets, because of the need to increase the intake of protein. While human species remained ominivorous, a preference for meat-eating did in fact occur over time. About 25% of our metabolism is devoted to brain function, which represents a huge investment of energy--and therefore a huge risk in terms of the overall chances for survival of the species. Overheating the large human brain in the hot climate of east Africa was potentially fatal; to see how our ancestors evolved solutions to this problem see the section on heat diffusion."

www.wsu.edu:8001...

it's interesting that he mentions temperature controll of our brains.as scientist have recently been discussing that humans were designed for running and that the shape of our skulls helps us dissapate heat.
www.thecrimson.com...
How many calories do you think the average ealry man burned,and how many foodstuffs would he have had that would meet that calorie need?
Lima beans????????

Originally posted by thelibra
Anything can become unhealthy in excess. Eating too much meat is just as unhealthy as not eating it at all, though in different ways.

Sorry, I disagree. You are neglecting that modern meat is littered with hormones and harmful disease from cruel living conditions premortem. This is another place where unhealthiness is a result.

I tried for a while to go vegetarian, but without comrade support it was quite difficult. I ended up giving up only beef. I am ashamed of myself for this, but with the way my family eats, it is extremely difficult for me to do any different at the dinner table. I decided I should just wait until I'm out of the house and can decide what enters the kitchen.

[edit on 10-12-2004 by iceofspades]

Omnivores are smarter than herbavores.
Thats why one is the hunter and the other is food.
thats why we are the dominant species on the planet.

Samhain:



Species Brain Weight
(approx.)
grams
sperm whale (male) 7,820
African elephant 7,500
fin whale 6,930
killer whale 5,620
bottlenose dolphin 1,600
human 1,500
cow 500

So the African elephant is considerably more evolved than the human? Its brain is approximately 6 times the size of a humans? How about the dolphins?

"Elephants are herbivores (plant eaters), but they cannot digest cellulose, the substance that makes up much plant matter. They spend about three-quarters of their time, day and night, selecting, picking, preparing and eating food. An adult elephant in the wild will eat in the region of 100 to 200 Kg (220 to 440 lb.) of vegetation per day depending on the habitat and the size of the elephant.

The number of plant species eaten by any one elephant may vary but it is likely to be more than fifty. About 30-60 per cent of elephant diet is grass, if it is available. Like humans and apes, an elephant's choice of food-plants will be determined partly by what grows locally, partly by what was learned from its mother, and partly by what it has discovered by trying novel food items. Elephants also select their meals taking into account the time it takes to prepare each mouthful. Eating long grass is probably the easiest and quickest way for an elephant to fill up! On the other hand, one of the most time-consuming food-items for elephants to prepare is bark. With larger trees, the elephant drives a tusk between the bark and the sapwood and then yanks a strip off the tree with its trunk. The soft wood of some trees such as the baobab is also eaten. Such tusking sometimes destroys the whole tree."

So I guess you could build quite a large brain by being herbivorous?

Originally posted by Mynaeris

Species Brain Weight
(approx.)
grams
African elephant 7,500
human 1,500
cow 500

So the African elephant is considerably more evolved than the human?

Really, I would think it was brain weight in proportion to bodywieght?
It is obvious to me that in proportion man's brain is much larger than other animla species

Originally posted by thelibra
Anything can become unhealthy in excess. Eating too much meat is just as unhealthy as not eating it at all, though in different ways.

Originally posted by iceofspades
Sorry, I disagree. You are neglecting that modern meat is littered with hormones and harmful disease from cruel living conditions premortem. This is another place where unhealthiness is a result.

Ah, you are bringing in external factors. I never once mentioned anything about hormones and disease. Plants contain these things also, such as the mexican green onion problem about a year back.

Excluding external factors, a well-balanced diet is the healthiest one.

Originally posted by iceofspades
I tried for a while to go vegetarian, but without comrade support it was quite difficult. I ended up giving up only beef.

Any qualified medical professional will tell you this is because your body was craving the amino acids and proteins and "good" cholestoral you were then lacking. It is the same as when a mother-to-be suddenly starts craving wierd foods. The body is desperately crying out for specific vitamins, proteins, or whatever it needs, in the forms of the foods one is the most familiar with.

There are other ways to obtain it, but the healthiest natural form is meat. Just like you -could- get your neccesary vitamins and minerals from just eating vitamin tablets, but the body cannot as easily digest and process these as they can fruits.

[edit on 12/10/2004 by thelibra]

Not all Omni's are not know to be mellow the bear is one and not very mellow. Also a Herbivore kills more people in Africa then all of the Carnivores combined the Hippo not a very mellow animal.

In the wild Carnivores are also smarter then herbivores It takes alot of protein for a large brain and it takes more brain power to hunt a animal then it does to hunt a blade of grass

The first statement is infact based on singular example and deliberate leaving out facts. Bears are indeed mellow, they only show aggression for a reason, ie food, defence. Same with hippos, they do not go around looking for people and other animals to kill. Man enters their domain, their territory, often stupidly against better judgement. You dont swim where you know there are crocodiles or hippos. Poor argument.

The second statement is also false and ignores the fact that a herbivor must be smart enough and energetic enough to avoid a predator, just as smart as a carnivore. poor comparison. poor argument. please think before you post.