New Area 51 alien autopsy image is ‘smoking gun’, researcher claims

originally posted by: kayej1188
a reply to: thepixelpusher

You want to believe so badly, and to a degree I can sympathize with your passion and patience regarding the existence of extraterrestrials. However, I'm not sure how you can make a case for this guy claiming he has a 'smoking gun' and then delaying. You seem to believe that during this delay, there is an abundance of research and verification going on behind the scenes, so that all bases will be covered, and we'll have all of the necessary information in order to verify the image. It takes quite a bit of faith to believe that. Considering the track record of this sort of stuff, I'd say it's more likely that the only thing being researched is how he can make the most $$$ and how he can maximize his 15 minutes of fame. I don't see how a legitimate picture of an extraterrestrial from close to 70 years ago wouldn't have been in the public's hands by now.

Wrong. The difference between you and me is I'll wait to see their evidence to determine what I think. You, you're just a blind debunker. Also, unlike you I talked to Don Schmitt directly about the research and know more than you about what they are doing.

My problem with this whole story, like a few others who are probably reading this, is that IT'S ALREADY BEEN A FULL YEAR since Schmitt first mentioned this. So for die-hard Roswell enthusiasts this is really our 2nd delay. And then there's still the whole logical issue of whether a photo would really be a smoking gun anyway.

I have mixed feelings about Schmitt. He's a superb researcher and anyone who truly delves into his work (youtube lectures, books) will quickly become entranced with the Roswell subject, because well, he presents an argument that no logical skeptic could rebuttal. And on the other hand, I sent him information about a possible Roswell lead (a family friend who was a reporter went to Roswell in July 47 who apparently tried to access the debris field, and literally vanished from the face of the earth; never returned back to his family -- IE: was probably killed and disposed of) which he never followed up on. No need to ask for more information - this is everything that I know.

Anyway, I stand behind Schmitt and Carey and await the evidence in 2015. Delve into this a little deeper and you'll see there really are some huge hurdles they need to jump to do this the right way - one is making sure they're not getting hoaxed themselves!

When I talked to Don Schmitt I year ago they didn't even have any idea if it was legitimate and the research was ongoing. So probably that's the reason. Maybe Carey and Schmitt aren't even 100% sure even yet. By sharing their research it may help them to verify things, or prove it to be a fake. Knowing Don and his research for over 30 years, I wouldn't lump him into the huckster crowd. He's just as skeptical as many people here. But, in the face of all he's discovered it's hard to deny what quite likely happened at Roswell. Read his books.

Their are no ETs in Area 51... Someday they will give a tour to certain people. It'll be like willie wonka...

a reply to: 3u40r15m

A lot of people within UFO circles say that the UFO/ET aspects of Area 51 were moved to another secret location long ago.

originally posted by: Bloodydagger
a reply to: 3u40r15m

A lot of people within UFO circles say that the UFO/ET aspects of Area 51 were moved to another secret location long ago.

Well they might be correct!

Well, I am not a debunker, and I believe there are cases that defy explanation, but come on people. How many times has the words "smoking gun" been used when it comes to this subject?

A photo of an alien is not smoking gun evidence, and never will be.

I believe Roswell has never been fully explained, and most prob never will be. But it annoys the hell out of me when people throw the "smoking gun" words around, when clearly it is not.

Just gives ufo skeptics\debunkers another reason to ridicule the subject

a reply to: The GUT
Yeah that was my mischief. In preparation for seeing Tom Carey at a local UFO conference in 2011, I listened to a few podcasts where he was interviewed. Seeing him talk in person was much worse. Carey seemed to be a name-dropper that was far more interested in film and TV deals than research. Most appalling to me, he said he was not interested in researching anything but Roswell.

I take that back, the most appalling part was when Carey described how he and Schmitt kept badgering Walter Haut to talk about seeing alien bodies. At that time, I didn't know about how they'd typed up a "deathbed confession" for the old man to sign.

a reply to: CardDown

CardDown, I'm still laughing. At least there is some justice in that meme(s) alone! Bless you.

To Whom it May Concern:

I understand the allure of Roswell. She once had me in her mysterious arms. There I was all wide-eyed, breathless, intellectually tumescent, and ravenous for her to be revealed naked at last (disclosure.)

But, for me, no single UFO case is worth putting blinders on. I wanna know the truth even if turns out to be mundane after all.

Over time, it became apparent that Roswell as crashed ET craft was a slut full of holes and various forms of disgusting deceit both official and from crappy "Ufologists"/Authors---and all to the continued detriment of a topic near and dear to my heart.

Dear Roswell ET Supporter,

If you are a true seeker with a fair intellect and competent reading comprehension, then you, too, can set your own mind free and in the process do real ufology a favor.

It's gonna take a little work, but it will pay off.

Sincerely and with respect. We're waiting for you!

The Gut

How many here use to believe that Roswell might hold the smoking gun and then through continued research realized that Roswell WAS modern mythology?

How many believe that mythology has been fostered by factions within the intelligence community?

Which brings me to ATS and the AMA's featuring what many knowledgeable ufologists consider to be absolute snake oil and bunk. Uncool.

Whoever it was above that said Scmitt can't be refuted hasn't read Pflock and doesn't know Jack. (Or Korff, even, for some excellent and irrefutable data and I don't even like the guy.)

There's one very special key that will greatly facilitate this very important journey and keep you from spending any more money or wasting your time. Start at the beginning. Start with Brazel's own words and first report:

Wilcox called RAAF Major Jesse Marcel and a "man in plainclothes" accompanied Brazel back to the ranch where more pieces were picked up. "[We] spent a couple of hours Monday afternoon [July 7] looking for any more parts of the weather device", said Marcel. "We found a few more patches of tinfoil and rubber."

As described in the July 9, 1947 edition of the Roswell Daily Record,

The balloon which held it up, if that was how it worked, must have been 12 feet long, [Brazel] felt, measuring the distance by the size of the room in which he sat.

The rubber was smoky gray in color and scattered over an area about 200 yards in diameter. When the debris was gathered up, the tinfoil, paper, tape, and sticks made a bundle about three feet long and 7 or 8 inches thick, while the rubber made a bundle about 18 or 20 inches long and about 8 inches thick. In all, he estimated, the entire lot would have weighed maybe five pounds.

There was no sign of any metal in the area which might have been used for an engine, and no sign of any propellers of any kind, although at least one paper fin had been glued onto some of the tinfoil. There were no words to be found anywhere on the instrument, although there were letters on some of the parts.

Considerable Scotch tape and some tape with flowers printed upon it had been used in the construction. No strings or wires were to be found but there were some eyelets in the paper to indicate that some sort of attachment may have been used.en.wikipedia.org...

As my own clouds finally parted, it wasn't a letdown once the disappointment had dissipated and my distaste for the William Moore's, and the Schitz's, and the Careyiedaways, and the Kinky Friedman's et al had fermented into a firm resolve to always call that kind out.

The reason it wasn't a letdown is because I'm not wasting time and spinning my wheels in those ancient and deceptive sands and, besides, clearing that hurdle lead me into fascinating new directions.

Yeah, I know, I'm a smart-ass. It was a smart-ass that got me to re-evaluating Roswell with an open mind on the subject. I'm ever grateful.

a reply to: thepixelpusher

In this case I think it is fair to say the skepticism has been caused by the announcement before anything was ready to present. The amount of time that has passed is also not helping.

My first thought is why would anyone announce something like this before they could produce the image? It makes zero sense. Don't blame anyone if they are less than impressed by such a tactic.

I think if it were ever going to be released, it would have happened within a short time. I'll withhold judgement for now, but there comes a point where it is clear it either did not exist or turned out to be a fraud and it's hoped people will forget. If it did not pan out the right step to take would be to immediately release it and explain. Honesty would demand that.

The one thing that will never fly is if the answer comes back it's disappeared and no copy was immediately made upon its receipt.

Too much time has passed. I'll eat my words in a heartbeat if it's released and others are allowed to confirm it's authenticity. Nothing would thrill me more than to eat my words, with a little Heinz 57.

a reply to: The GUT

I've read the detractors and I can't say that they hold the same evidence Schmitt does on Roswell. For example, the "Roswell : Inconvenient Facts and the Will to Believe" by Karl T. PFlock is riddled with inaccuracies and even attributes quotes to people who gave none. JC Smith, who was the last living Roswell fireman from 1947 gave no quote but in the book there is one. I'm hardly new to the Roswell investigation. I've followed it since it's beginning. I wouldn't align yourself with PFlock. He's the weakest of the armchair skeptics. I understand the skepticism, but there's plenty of scientific research and evidence in the Schmitt books to point toward some other world or other dimension intrusion.

It isn't a matter of belief. It's a matter of considering the facts. And I've not read anything else that matches the investigation done by Schmitt over the last 30 years.

a reply to: Blaine91555

I agree that talking about the image before release was probably a bad approach. Likely they did it to generate interest in the forthcoming press conference and instead they got blowback with people asking for it now. Schmitt never said to me the alien slide was "the smoking gun". In fact he was careful to temper the enthusiasm people had for it until they could finish the research. That is in line with all the research Schmitt has done. Again, I'll say I bet even Carey and Schmitt understand that the image can never be 100% verified. But, with it's release it may open up other evidence to prove it valid of consideration or not.[

It's their research, their reputations and their call. I'll reserve judgement until after their research and the image is released.

a reply to: thepixelpusher

pixelpusher, I think you don't understand just how wrong and how many times Schmitt and his various teammates have been clearly shown to be either poor researchers at best or disingenious at worst. Maybe you will join us in further discussion on Roswell specifics at Roswell for Dummies.

I'm willing to to discuss this in more depth with you. Maybe we could each source and defend our points?

originally posted by: The GUT
a reply to: thepixelpusher

pixelpusher, I think you don't understand just how wrong and how many times Schmitt and his various teammates have been clearly shown to be either poor researchers at best or disingenious at worst.

Again, my comment stands that no debunkers presentation matches the work done by Schmitt (and the scientists he enlists) over the last 30 years.

In the interest to keep this on-topic if you have comments to me on things other than the slide and Carey's statement, please PM me to discuss it further. I cannot comment on Carey since I've never met him or talked to him.

originally posted by: thepixelpusher
Again, my comment stands that no debunkers presentation matches the work done by Schmitt

Why should it? Debunkers do not make crap up, that is left to the hoaxers like Schmitt.

I can't vouch for the authenticity of these remarks, but here's something I read on the web.

Apparently, info from someone who viewed the slides.

New Details of Alleged Roswell Alien Slides/Photos Revealed

3. The photos appear to have been taken about 4 or 5 feet from the humanoid, from a position slightly above it.

4. To my eye, the humanoid is lying on a clear glass shelf and is surrounded by either clear glass walls and/or a full glass enclosure. The enclosure appears to be more like a rectangular box than like a bottle.

Authentic Alien Images from Roswell UFO Crash Finally Found?

• They are clear, in color, up close, and taken from two separate angles.

• These slides were found hidden in an attic in a chest having belonged to a deceased couple.

• This author made the incredible discovery that the husband was a very prominent petroleum geologist who conducted oil exploration expeditions in the 1940s in West TX and in New Mexico. This area also encompassed the Permian Basin, a region that includes Roswell, NM.

• Rather than depicting the popular culture image of aliens in the 1940s, they show the image of a small humanoid alien, like those aliens described by witnesses to Roswell.

• Other photos found in the chest (separate from the two humanoid slides) depict General Eisenhower in 1947 and with the couple at meetings and parties with what appear to be very well-placed people.

Furthermore the articles author who claims to be part of the research states:

• No member of the team owns, manages or controls the evidence in any way, and therefore has not made any media inquiries as rumored and makes no decisions on what is done or not done with such evidence.

•We do not in any way represent or speak for the owner of the evidence. We were only assisting him.

My own speculation:
So, maybe Carey was going too far in stating his presentation of the images while they are still controlled by the current owner? I think this image(s) will get out but it seems that maybe it's getting dragged into some tug of war as to how and when.

originally posted by: thepixelpusher
3. The photos appear to have been taken about 4 or 5 feet from the humanoid, from a position slightly above it.

4. To my eye, the humanoid is lying on.........

I noticed you left out number 2....

What do the slides show?
1. There are 2 photos, taken in an indoor setting.
2. The photos are of poor quality (focus, exposure) compared to virtually all the other photos in the same collection. For this reason, edge detection, contrast enhancement and other photoanalysis techniques are warranted and are being used.

So
"Before we publish the pictures we are going to fiddle with them so we cannot be found out pushing fakes easily"!

The quotes are just snippets of the full articles. Read the links I provided. Supposedly, it adds extra details.

Not sure what you meant by point #2. I don't have any support or detraction for this until I get the evidence to review. I hope you don't prejudge this without evidence too.

I doubt the owner is giving us access to the original slide, so I guess we'll be judging a scan of it (enhanced or not). It's the backstory that should either support or detract from the image. It'd be interesting if others come forward upon release of the image. Unless others can add to it i think the slide would stand as a curiosity, but it might be hard to go further with just the slide.

I want to know more about the original photographer(s). The links above give some details.

originally posted by: Jay-morris
Well, I am not a debunker, and I believe there are cases that defy explanation, but come on people. How many times has the words "smoking gun" been used when it comes to this subject?

A photo of an alien is not smoking gun evidence, and never will be.

I believe Roswell has never been fully explained, and most prob never will be. But it annoys the hell out of me when people throw the "smoking gun" words around, when clearly it is not.

Just gives ufo skepticsdebunkers another reason to ridicule the subject

Agreed. No photo or video at this stage can ever be considered a "smoking gun". It's at that point where sophisticated fakes could be passed off as evidence.

The only smoking gun for ET will be physical evidence which can be tested in multiple labs. A finger, a tentacle, some skin, an alien equivalent to a screwdriver or smart phone, etc.

Or... Some abductees/experiencers will have to receive some scientific information from the "aliens" about our galaxy which is unknown to us currently but which can be verified through careful observation.

Short of that this subject will remain in the realm of psuedo-religious belief rather than the realm of science.

originally posted by: thepixelpusher

My own speculation:
So, maybe Carey was going too far in stating his presentation of the images while they are still controlled by the current owner? I think this image(s) will get out but it seems that maybe it's getting dragged into some tug of war as to how and when.

Nothing like that. Both parts came already to an arrangement and a deal is signed.
Just wait for May 2015 in Mexico.

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: Jay-morris
Well, I am not a debunker, and I believe there are cases that defy explanation, but come on people. How many times has the words "smoking gun" been used when it comes to this subject?

A photo of an alien is not smoking gun evidence, and never will be.

I believe Roswell has never been fully explained, and most prob never will be. But it annoys the hell out of me when people throw the "smoking gun" words around, when clearly it is not.

Just gives ufo skepticsdebunkers another reason to ridicule the subject

Agreed. No photo or video at this stage can ever be considered a "smoking gun". It's at that point where sophisticated fakes could be passed off as evidence.

The only smoking gun for ET will be physical evidence which can be tested in multiple labs. A finger, a tentacle, some skin, an alien equivalent to a screwdriver or smart phone, etc.

Or... Some abductees/experiencers will have to receive some scientific information from the "aliens" about our galaxy which is unknown to us currently but which can be verified through careful observation.

Short of that this subject will remain in the realm of psuedo-religious belief rather than the realm of science.

I think a photo coupled with corroborating testimony and witnesses could indeed be strong evidence to verify this event. Schmitt and Carey are doing the extra background research. Clearly they seem excited that there is something to this.

Again, if you read all of Schmitt's previous books on Roswell you'd know that there is already plenty of cross reference to prove that we had an intrusion by either an ET or extra dimensional species. The research he's done is extraordinary.