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Jesus and omnipotence.

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posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 09:29 PM
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Hi all, I wanted to share with you something I have just discovered.

First take into account this verse. Mark 13:32 "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

Not even Jesus knows the time nor hour of his return. From this we can safely say that Jesus is not omnipotent. However God the Father is omnipotent and is working through Jesus Christ.
I haven't bothered to look for other verses to strengthen this claim but I feel there would be more. Perhaps you could take a look.

Thanks for reading




posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 10:35 PM
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a reply to: Emerald53

Just read the gospels man...

Theres little to nothing that speaks of his omnipotence... Everything is attributed to the Father not the son

IF you're looking for info on him being God... Just know the idea was a fabrication of the early church...

His followers didn't consider him God... Nor did he consider himself God

Though you should expect several IF not all of the Christian community of ATS to rally and provide "proof verses" that he is "God in the flesh"...




posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 10:43 PM
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a reply to: Emerald53

I think omniscience is what is in question. While Jesus was in human form, He set aside His omnipotence, omnisience and omnipresence so that He could test the proto-type ministry of the Holy Spirit. In the OT, the Holy Spirit came and went periodically for the prophets, but during the Church Age, all believers are indwelt with the Holy Spirit, and can utilizes His power via direct confession of sin to the Father (1John 1:9)...no priest needed. Jesus was the first to be baptized with the Holy Spirit, but because He was sinless He did not require confessions. Before this power could be made available to the Church, Christ had to prove its efficacy by setting aside His power and using the Holy Spirit.
edit on 16-11-2014 by BELIEVERpriest because: typo



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 10:53 PM
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a reply to: Emerald53

This verse backs up what I stated.

Philipians 2:5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 10:59 PM
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Can God create a rock so heavy he can't lift it?



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 11:37 PM
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Sounds like you are learning to look at things yourself instead of believing what you are told OP.

Jesus was filled with the Holy Spirit, he was a Mesiah, a messenger from god with god given powers to heal.

He himself says to pray to god. What is god's name? I guess it actually is a phonetic sounding of the name that is important. I never really believed that Jesus was god. How can the son be his father?



posted on Nov, 17 2014 @ 06:47 AM
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a reply to: Emerald53

1 Corinthians 15

20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he “has put everything under his feet.”[c] Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.



posted on Nov, 17 2014 @ 04:35 PM
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originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Emerald53

I think omniscience is what is in question. While Jesus was in human form, He set aside His omnipotence, omnisience and omnipresence so that He could test the proto-type ministry of the Holy Spirit. In the OT, the Holy Spirit came and went periodically for the prophets, but during the Church Age, all believers are indwelt with the Holy Spirit, and can utilizes His power via direct confession of sin to the Father (1John 1:9)...no priest needed. Jesus was the first to be baptized with the Holy Spirit, but because He was sinless He did not require confessions. Before this power could be made available to the Church, Christ had to prove its efficacy by setting aside His power and using the Holy Spirit.


Even in the bible it say that Jesus was baptized first by John the Baptist before he was truly awoken in the desert. Jesus needed the energy and the guidance of John to go further and John gave it like he was supposed to.

One blessed ONE helping another to be blessed ONE. So Jesus was not the first nor the last to be energized.

Namaste
edit on 17-11-2014 by LittleByLittle because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 17 2014 @ 05:16 PM
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The idea of a living god should not be so hard to accept. I have found nothing that says he can not have an avatar but there is one that was not allowed to have an avatar and he is still pissed and squaks at any showing joy or power or even at people having the thought that GOD could walk among us. He sends his minions to speak down to the thought of GOD saying hello in the flesh.

edit on 17-11-2014 by deadeyedick because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 17 2014 @ 07:49 PM
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originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
Can God create a rock so heavy he can't lift it?


Yes it is called your free will.



posted on Nov, 17 2014 @ 08:00 PM
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a reply to: guitarplayer

I mean a literal rock, not a metaphor.

God's omnipotence and omniscience is paradoxical.

He cannot be all powerful in other words. Nor can he be omnibenevolent.
edit on 11-17-2014 by WakeUpBeer because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 17 2014 @ 09:59 PM
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a reply to: Emerald53

Priest has already mentioned that the Son became fully human, but the passage from Mark that you quoted is continuing the marriage analogy of Christ and the Church. 1st century Jews had certain wedding customs:




There were three states of a marriage in the Bible:
Stage 1: signing the "ketubbah" contract (Creating the marriage bond) i. The bride would chose her husband and her father would sign a legal contract with him called a "ketubbah". ii. Once this is signed the couple is 100% married but do not have sex yet. iii. Young children were often married, (arraigned marriage) but did not consummate until of age.
Stage 2: The "chuppah": sexual consummation. i. Up to 7 years later, the groom is able to raise the money as set out in the ketubbah contract and notifies the father of the bride, who then sets a date to consummate the marriage at the bride's home. ii. The bride waits with her maidens, for the arrival of the groom and his companions. iii. The couple enters the chuppah room and consummates the marriage while the companions of the bride and groom wait and celebrate outside or in the next room. iv. The groom hands the bloodied "proof of virginity cloth" to the witnesses chosen by the bride's parents, who then give it to the bride for safekeeping.
Stage 3: The wedding feast i. After consummation, the entire wedding party walks to the house of the groom in a procession for a wedding feast. ii. At the conclusion of the wedding feast, the couple has completed the ancient ritual of marriage.


Basically the Groom(the Son) pays the bride price(the Cross) and then he leaves for X amount of time, and only when his own Father approves of the house he builds for his Bride(the Church) can the Groom go and get the Bride(the Rapture). The Father is the only one that knows the time because he is the one who has the authority to tell the Son to collect his Bride.

Forgot the link:www.bible.ca...

Much more indepth knowledge on the ritual there too.
edit on 17-11-2014 by ServantOfTheLamb because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 17 2014 @ 10:14 PM
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a reply to: Akragon

I cant resist but pointing out John 1:1-3 Col 1:16-17 Hebrews 1:8. Psalm 90:2 says God is eternal so Jesus must have always been God. You can see evidence of more that one person in the being of God in the OT(Genesis 19:24; Exodus 23:20-23).

Lets keep listing more references to the divinity of Christ


John 8:58

John 10:30-33

John 20:28

John 9:35-38

Phil 2:5-8 pair with Isaiah 53 for more understanding.

Col 2:9



posted on Nov, 17 2014 @ 10:14 PM
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a reply to: Emerald53

It is so sorry for you guys to argue about such words. You all are arguing over fantasy. Instead of tryingt o discover the truth you listen to lies and argue over them. That is pitiful. That is more than ignorant. That is shameful. There is nothing positive I can say about it. There are dozens of negative things I can say about it. Why can't you just be positive? Are people that stupid that they cannot understand truth and agree?



posted on Nov, 17 2014 @ 10:19 PM
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a reply to: greyer

Arguing over a fantasy? You call the Christian God a fantasy or a Supernatural Creator in general?



posted on Nov, 17 2014 @ 10:23 PM
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a reply to: Emerald53

5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus,

6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,

7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.

8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

Thats Philippians 2. This very clearly explains where the Son chooses to be submissive to the Father and becomes like man.



posted on Nov, 17 2014 @ 10:27 PM
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a reply to: WakeUpBeer

You could ask can He make something so small He could not see it? I had read years ago someone had a dream and saw Jesus walking about in empty space and He kept looking in his hand. When asked what it was Jesus showed him and it look small like a peanut and He said this is all that I've created so far. You are trying to put human limitations on someone who is not human.



posted on Nov, 17 2014 @ 10:50 PM
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a reply to: guitarplayer

If God is all powerful then he can do anything. If God can do anything, then he should be able to create a rock so heavy he can't lift it. However, once the rock is created he should be able to lift it since he is all powerful. But this contradicts the claim of omnipotence. It is a paradox. What if we were to say, God can do everything that is logically possible? Well if God is bound by logic, then he cannot be the author of logic.

God can either create a rock so heavy he can't lift it or he can't. Which is it?

Omnipotence Paradox



posted on Nov, 17 2014 @ 11:01 PM
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a reply to: WakeUpBeer

Actually I will argue the logic is a part of God's essence.

Wiki:


In philosophy, essence is the attribute or set of attributes that make an entity or substance what it fundamentally is, and which it has by necessity, and without which it loses its identity.


God is not subject to Logic it is part of him.



posted on Nov, 17 2014 @ 11:04 PM
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a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

So how would you resolve the paradox proposed?



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