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Christians are being persecuted worldwide!, Burning, Beheading and Crucifixion.

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posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 07:45 PM
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originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: TechUnique

First lets throw out everything from Breitbart and Infowars they get more wrong than right.

Second I am sure you have heard the saying "Karmas a bitch" because you must know Christians have done atrocious things in those countries.

Third there are just some countries where advertising your beliefs " especially contrary beliefs" are not a wise thing to do. Same as it doesn't pay to travel and advertise your American in many countries that would be foolish even asking for it.

Please don't forget in some countries Christians are still killing people because they think they are witches.

African Children Denounced As "Witches" By Christian Pastors



EKET, Nigeria — The nine-year-old boy lay on a bloodstained hospital sheet crawling with ants, staring blindly at the wall.

His family pastor had accused him of being a witch, and his father then tried to force acid down his throat as an exorcism. It spilled as he struggled, burning away his face and eyes. The emaciated boy barely had strength left to whisper the name of the church that had denounced him – Mount Zion Lighthouse.

Exactly, the whole of the last 500 years shows Western CHRISTIAN nations colonizing, oppressing, trying to force convert, and dehumanizing other peoples, countries, and faiths. Often these nations and their leaders explicitly justified it in the name of Christianity and the fact that the oppressed were heathen savages.

Some of this either may be generalized anger and violence in response, which I disagree with, or group karma. But it makes sense in the light of history.




posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 07:49 PM
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a reply to: TechUnique

There are over 2 billion Christians on the planet. I think we would know if the systemic persecution of Christians was actually taking place. And while some Christians have died as a result of their beliefs, so too have others. Muslims, Buddhists, Yazidis...the list goes on, and on, and on. I would hardly say that there is a systemic persecution occurring. Maybe in some societies, but definitely not as widespread as you would have everyone believe.

I understand that you are Christian, and therefore biased in regards to the topic at hand, but just step away from the questionable sources and understand that many people of other faiths and ethnicities are also being murdered in these regions. It's not like Christianity is being exclusively persecuted.
edit on 16-11-2014 by daaskapital because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 07:49 PM
link   

originally posted by: TechUnique

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: TechUnique

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: TechUnique
Yeah that's an appropriate response to someone causing you a grievance.


I didn't say that, did I? Putting words in my mouth doesn't help your case.

You can't go into a country and preach something you KNOW will get you killed and then complain because you get killed... You can't knowingly step into a bear trap and then blame the trap for going off...


There are plenty of Christians who were BORN in the middle east and are being persecuted. Your point makes absolutely no sense whatsoever and you are making apologies for people who are BEHEADING PEOPLE..



Well then, perhaps your beloved "Christian presidents" should not have spent the past 60 years manipulating the ME, removing regimes that were blocks to these extremist groups, funding rebel groups just like ISIS, and so on. It's called group karma bro.

That doesn't excuse it, but it informs the "why."


How can these people be true Christians?

They may CLAIM to be Christian but the fruits of their labor suggest the COMPLETE opposite.



Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
Bible

And I don't live in the USA by the way.


And on this I agree with you, that if someone is engaging in unethical wars, aggression, etc, then they can't truly be showing the fruits of real spirituality.

However, a view of history shows that apparently very few Christians are "real Christians" then, as too many atrocities have been committed or supported by Christians over the past 2000 years. Most Christians, including most of the Religious Right, were ALL for Bush's illegal and evil wars and his institution of torture. I knew immediately it was wrong. Ask yourself a scary and real question: If these devoted evangelical Christians, who appear to be praying, accepting Jesus, and reading the Bible were absolutely oblivious to the evil going on, while many non-Christians or liberal Christians knew right away, what does that say about contemporary Christianity's "Fruits of the spirit." Where was the "spirit of truth" of the Holy Spirit?
edit on 16-11-2014 by Quetzalcoatl14 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 07:53 PM
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Although this is true to some extent, it is not applicable. Look at the people who have died in other countries because of actions instigated by the US over the years. Look at the past actions of the KKK and other groups of individuals. Look at the actions of governments around the world and how their policies have led to millions of deaths of individuals.

None of these actions are justifiable, neither is war instigated mostly by people who desire power and not by the regular people in countries. We have been led down a conditioned highway, why can't we just live peacefully together?

I know, it is just a pipe dream.
edit on 16-11-2014 by rickymouse because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 08:04 PM
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originally posted by: daaskapital
a reply to: TechUnique

There are over 2 billion Christians on the planet. I think we would know if the systemic persecution of Christians was actually taking place. And while some Christians have died as a result of their beliefs, so too have others. Muslims, Buddhists, Yazidis...the list goes on, and on, and on. I would hardly say that there is a systemic persecution occurring. Maybe in some societies, but definitely not as widespread as you would have everyone believe.

I understand that you are Christian, and therefore biased in regards to the topic at hand, but just step away from the questionable sources and understand that many people of other faiths and ethnicities are also being murdered in these regions. It's not like Christianity is exclusively being persecuted.


'I think we would know'.

Ok how about you read the numerous articles I have posted in this thread then tell me that there is not a systemic persecution of Christians.

ONE OF THE LINKS I POSTED LITERALLY HAS WHAT YOU SAID WORD FOR WORD IN THE TITLE.

Are people just pretending that this isn't happening or what? Are you ignoring the links I've provided? I've provided more links to back up my claims than you will get in the majority of threads on ATS.

Yet nothing.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 08:05 PM
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originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: TechUnique

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: TechUnique

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: TechUnique
Yeah that's an appropriate response to someone causing you a grievance.


I didn't say that, did I? Putting words in my mouth doesn't help your case.

You can't go into a country and preach something you KNOW will get you killed and then complain because you get killed... You can't knowingly step into a bear trap and then blame the trap for going off...


There are plenty of Christians who were BORN in the middle east and are being persecuted. Your point makes absolutely no sense whatsoever and you are making apologies for people who are BEHEADING PEOPLE..



Well then, perhaps your beloved "Christian presidents" should not have spent the past 60 years manipulating the ME, removing regimes that were blocks to these extremist groups, funding rebel groups just like ISIS, and so on. It's called group karma bro.

That doesn't excuse it, but it informs the "why."


How can these people be true Christians?

They may CLAIM to be Christian but the fruits of their labor suggest the COMPLETE opposite.



Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
Bible

And I don't live in the USA by the way.


And on this I agree with you, that if someone is engaging in unethical wars, aggression, etc, then they can't truly be showing the fruits of real spirituality.

However, a view of history shows that apparently very few Christians are "real Christians" then, as too many atrocities have been committed or supported by Christians over the past 2000 years. Most Christians, including most of the Religious Right, were ALL for Bush's illegal and evil wars and his institution of torture. I knew immediately it was wrong. Ask yourself a scary and real question: If these devoted evangelical Christians, who appear to be praying, accepting Jesus, and reading the Bible were absolutely oblivious to the evil going on, while many non-Christians or liberal Christians knew right away, what does that say about contemporary Christianity's "Fruits of the spirit." Where was the "spirit of truth" of the Holy Spirit?


Yes that is very true. There are few true Christians. People masquerade under the guise of religion in order to commit atrocities. God wouldn't tell George bush to destabilize Iraq and cause the deaths of 100's of thousands of citizens.

God wouldn't condone the sexual abuse of children at the hands of the catholic church. God doesn't condone the catholic church at all it is a cult which worships false idols.

edit on 26/10/2010 by TechUnique because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 08:18 PM
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It is a shame on all of the killings due to Christianity, Its easy to ignore until it starts happening on our soil or in our own state then people will wake up to the serious of it all.

For me it is very sad and horrifying to think of all the deaths that are done in the name of allah. Way too much hatred going on and the hate seems to be spreading out amongst anyone that is different or shares a different view or religion. It is not up to us to judge anyone or what they believe in.

I can understand the reason for the flood in the days of Noah if humanity was as cold hearted as we are becoming today towards others.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 08:19 PM
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a reply to: TechUnique




Yes that is very true. There are few true Christians. People masquerade under the guise of religion in order to commit atrocities. God wouldn't tell George bush to destabilize Iraq and cause the deaths of 100's of thousands of citizens.


Really???

You know he has a bad history of commanding horrible things.

Like lets say command the extermination of the Canaanites?

So you know your gods got a bad rep and who are you to say if he did or didn't tell GB to do such. At the very least you got to think how that looks to the people of the nation getting obliterated. Do you think they say there gd wouldn't do that?

Do you look at the beheadings and say "their god wouldn't condone that"? Think.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 08:23 PM
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a reply to: TechUnique

The majority of your articles are from questionable sources which should not be trusted.

As i said, Christians are being murdered for their beliefs. So too are Muslims and other religious people. These 'persecutions' in these regions are not exclusive to Christians. IS is murdering Yazidis and Muslims, much like they are murdering Christians. This isn't something which Christians alone are experiencing.

It is foolhardy to make this all about Christian persecution when the persecution is also happening to others. It is also foolish to somehow suggest that Christians are being 'persecuted worldwide', when there are over 2 billion Christians on the planet and you can only cite a couple of (questionable) sources detailing the deaths of some in regional areas.

Yes, murders are happening, and they are bad. But again, they aren't happening to the extent of which you would have us believe.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 08:26 PM
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originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: TechUnique




Yes that is very true. There are few true Christians. People masquerade under the guise of religion in order to commit atrocities. God wouldn't tell George bush to destabilize Iraq and cause the deaths of 100's of thousands of citizens.


Really???

You know he has a bad history of commanding horrible things.

Like lets say command the extermination of the Canaanites?

So you know your gods got a bad rep and who are you to say if he did or didn't tell GB to do such. At the very least you got to think how that looks to the people of the nation getting obliterated. Do you think they say there gd wouldn't do that?

Do you look at the beheadings and say "their god wouldn't condone that"? Think.


Yeah, that is the thing. The Old Testament is full of "God" telling the Israelites to commit genocide on heathens and Canaanites. And if the text is telling the truth, they did!

So this is what amazes me. Our friend who we are responding to believes the entire Bible to be the revealed and perfect word of God. The problem is that then such a person has to believe that the exploits of the Israelites and God's instruction are also infallible and or actually happened.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 08:31 PM
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originally posted by: TechUnique

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: TechUnique

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: TechUnique

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: TechUnique
Yeah that's an appropriate response to someone causing you a grievance.


I didn't say that, did I? Putting words in my mouth doesn't help your case.

You can't go into a country and preach something you KNOW will get you killed and then complain because you get killed... You can't knowingly step into a bear trap and then blame the trap for going off...


There are plenty of Christians who were BORN in the middle east and are being persecuted. Your point makes absolutely no sense whatsoever and you are making apologies for people who are BEHEADING PEOPLE..



Well then, perhaps your beloved "Christian presidents" should not have spent the past 60 years manipulating the ME, removing regimes that were blocks to these extremist groups, funding rebel groups just like ISIS, and so on. It's called group karma bro.

That doesn't excuse it, but it informs the "why."


How can these people be true Christians?

They may CLAIM to be Christian but the fruits of their labor suggest the COMPLETE opposite.



Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
Bible

And I don't live in the USA by the way.


And on this I agree with you, that if someone is engaging in unethical wars, aggression, etc, then they can't truly be showing the fruits of real spirituality.

However, a view of history shows that apparently very few Christians are "real Christians" then, as too many atrocities have been committed or supported by Christians over the past 2000 years. Most Christians, including most of the Religious Right, were ALL for Bush's illegal and evil wars and his institution of torture. I knew immediately it was wrong. Ask yourself a scary and real question: If these devoted evangelical Christians, who appear to be praying, accepting Jesus, and reading the Bible were absolutely oblivious to the evil going on, while many non-Christians or liberal Christians knew right away, what does that say about contemporary Christianity's "Fruits of the spirit." Where was the "spirit of truth" of the Holy Spirit?


Yes that is very true. There are few true Christians. People masquerade under the guise of religion in order to commit atrocities. God wouldn't tell George bush to destabilize Iraq and cause the deaths of 100's of thousands of citizens.

God wouldn't condone the sexual abuse of children at the hands of the catholic church. God doesn't condone the catholic church at all it is a cult which worships false idols.


I personally agree that God or a higher power would not command anyone to or condone anyone committing sexual abuse, mass murder, wars of aggression, and so on.

I am no fan of the Catholic Church due to some of the history.

But a lot of protestants as we are discussing now have committed atrocities too. Remember, the entire British Empire was ostensibly protestant and most of the US foreign policy actions have occurred under the banner of Christianity.

What I don't want you to think is that I am singling out Christianity. Obviously there have been atrocities committed in the name of other religions.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 08:35 PM
link   

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: TechUnique




Yes that is very true. There are few true Christians. People masquerade under the guise of religion in order to commit atrocities. God wouldn't tell George bush to destabilize Iraq and cause the deaths of 100's of thousands of citizens.


Really???

You know he has a bad history of commanding horrible things.

Like lets say command the extermination of the Canaanites?

So you know your gods got a bad rep and who are you to say if he did or didn't tell GB to do such. At the very least you got to think how that looks to the people of the nation getting obliterated. Do you think they say there gd wouldn't do that?

Do you look at the beheadings and say "their god wouldn't condone that"? Think.


God would not condone the killing of innocent children unless it was necessary for the greater good. Is it necessary in these cases? No.

Yes, in some cases God has killed people. Do you know why? Because he had to. And before anyone asks me why God kills babies in Africa you can blame that on the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation.

THEY are just another arm of the satanic new world order.

Can you see all the suffering happening in the world? Satan is running rife. This needs to stop. You are being offered eternal life but you are not taking it. Your life is beyond this world and when God has to destroy what Satan has turned the world into you will not be saved..

Unless you repent and accept Jesus Christ as the one true way to God. This has all been written down if you would just read the bible.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 08:36 PM
link   

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: TechUnique




Yes that is very true. There are few true Christians. People masquerade under the guise of religion in order to commit atrocities. God wouldn't tell George bush to destabilize Iraq and cause the deaths of 100's of thousands of citizens.


Really???

You know he has a bad history of commanding horrible things.

Like lets say command the extermination of the Canaanites?

So you know your gods got a bad rep and who are you to say if he did or didn't tell GB to do such. At the very least you got to think how that looks to the people of the nation getting obliterated. Do you think they say there gd wouldn't do that?

Do you look at the beheadings and say "their god wouldn't condone that"? Think.


And, as you noted, the Muslims being bombed to kingdom come just see a bunch of crazy white "Christian" folks attacking their nation. I agree that just like Christians overgeneralizing all Muslims, it is not good if Muslims judge all Christians or target random Christians or Westerners. But still, some of the backlash is fair.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 08:36 PM
link   

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: TechUnique

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: TechUnique

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: TechUnique

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: TechUnique
Yeah that's an appropriate response to someone causing you a grievance.


I didn't say that, did I? Putting words in my mouth doesn't help your case.

You can't go into a country and preach something you KNOW will get you killed and then complain because you get killed... You can't knowingly step into a bear trap and then blame the trap for going off...


There are plenty of Christians who were BORN in the middle east and are being persecuted. Your point makes absolutely no sense whatsoever and you are making apologies for people who are BEHEADING PEOPLE..



Well then, perhaps your beloved "Christian presidents" should not have spent the past 60 years manipulating the ME, removing regimes that were blocks to these extremist groups, funding rebel groups just like ISIS, and so on. It's called group karma bro.

That doesn't excuse it, but it informs the "why."


How can these people be true Christians?

They may CLAIM to be Christian but the fruits of their labor suggest the COMPLETE opposite.



Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
Bible

And I don't live in the USA by the way.


And on this I agree with you, that if someone is engaging in unethical wars, aggression, etc, then they can't truly be showing the fruits of real spirituality.

However, a view of history shows that apparently very few Christians are "real Christians" then, as too many atrocities have been committed or supported by Christians over the past 2000 years. Most Christians, including most of the Religious Right, were ALL for Bush's illegal and evil wars and his institution of torture. I knew immediately it was wrong. Ask yourself a scary and real question: If these devoted evangelical Christians, who appear to be praying, accepting Jesus, and reading the Bible were absolutely oblivious to the evil going on, while many non-Christians or liberal Christians knew right away, what does that say about contemporary Christianity's "Fruits of the spirit." Where was the "spirit of truth" of the Holy Spirit?


Yes that is very true. There are few true Christians. People masquerade under the guise of religion in order to commit atrocities. God wouldn't tell George bush to destabilize Iraq and cause the deaths of 100's of thousands of citizens.

God wouldn't condone the sexual abuse of children at the hands of the catholic church. God doesn't condone the catholic church at all it is a cult which worships false idols.


I personally agree that God or a higher power would not command anyone to or condone anyone committing sexual abuse, mass murder, wars of aggression, and so on.

I am no fan of the Catholic Church due to some of the history.

But a lot of protestants as we are discussing now have committed atrocities too. Remember, the entire British Empire was ostensibly protestant and most of the US foreign policy actions have occurred under the banner of Christianity.

What I don't want you to think is that I am singling out Christianity. Obviously there have been atrocities committed in the name of other religions.


You just hit the nail on the head without even realizing it.
"But a lot of protestants as we are discussing now have committed atrocities too. Remember, the entire British Empire was ostensibly protestant and most of the US foreign policy actions have occurred under the banner of Christianity. "



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 08:41 PM
link   

originally posted by: TechUnique

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: TechUnique




Yes that is very true. There are few true Christians. People masquerade under the guise of religion in order to commit atrocities. God wouldn't tell George bush to destabilize Iraq and cause the deaths of 100's of thousands of citizens.


Really???

You know he has a bad history of commanding horrible things.

Like lets say command the extermination of the Canaanites?

So you know your gods got a bad rep and who are you to say if he did or didn't tell GB to do such. At the very least you got to think how that looks to the people of the nation getting obliterated. Do you think they say there gd wouldn't do that?

Do you look at the beheadings and say "their god wouldn't condone that"? Think.


God would not condone the killing of innocent children unless it was necessary for the greater good. Is it necessary in these cases? No.

Yes, in some cases God has killed people. Do you know why? Because he had to. And before anyone asks me why God kills babies in Africa you can blame that on the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation.

THEY are just another arm of the satanic new world order.

Can you see all the suffering happening in the world? Satan is running rife. This needs to stop. You are being offered eternal life but you are not taking it. Your life is beyond this world and when God has to destroy what Satan has turned the world into you will not be saved..

Unless you repent and accept Jesus Christ as the one true way to God. This has all been written down if you would just read the bible.



But wait, you didn't address the genocide of the Canaanites by the Hebrews in the OT.

This is the clincher.

Christians I have spoken with about this have said "God ordered the genocide of the Canaanites because the land belongs to the Jews. Jews were the chosen race of God and the line of David had to remain pure to bring forth the Messiah. The Canaanites were unclean, impure, and would have polluted God's chosen people."

I showed this to one of my liberal Jewish friends who had never read all of it or the justifications. His response free recall without any prompting: "This sounds just like how the Nazis treated the Jews."

It is.... The Christian justifications for the genocide of the Canaanites are almost identical to why the Nazis started exterminating people.

When you start justifying such things in the Bible, then it therefore opens up Pandora's Box and who is to say that other groups can't claim "the end justifies the means" or "God had to have me kill these people."



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 08:42 PM
link   
a reply to: TechUnique




God would not condone the killing of innocent children unless it was necessary for the greater good. Is it necessary in these cases? No.



I thought your god was infallible all knowing and omnipotent? In one section he kills a guy with precision by lightning bolt for having to much sex in another he can't be bothered and exterminates entire civilizations.

The very act of him doing any of that means that free will is a lie in the bible which means it is fallible.

How do you rationalize those discrepancies?



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 08:43 PM
link   

originally posted by: TechUnique

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: TechUnique

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: TechUnique

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: TechUnique

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: TechUnique
Yeah that's an appropriate response to someone causing you a grievance.


I didn't say that, did I? Putting words in my mouth doesn't help your case.

You can't go into a country and preach something you KNOW will get you killed and then complain because you get killed... You can't knowingly step into a bear trap and then blame the trap for going off...


There are plenty of Christians who were BORN in the middle east and are being persecuted. Your point makes absolutely no sense whatsoever and you are making apologies for people who are BEHEADING PEOPLE..



Well then, perhaps your beloved "Christian presidents" should not have spent the past 60 years manipulating the ME, removing regimes that were blocks to these extremist groups, funding rebel groups just like ISIS, and so on. It's called group karma bro.

That doesn't excuse it, but it informs the "why."


How can these people be true Christians?

They may CLAIM to be Christian but the fruits of their labor suggest the COMPLETE opposite.



Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
Bible

And I don't live in the USA by the way.


And on this I agree with you, that if someone is engaging in unethical wars, aggression, etc, then they can't truly be showing the fruits of real spirituality.

However, a view of history shows that apparently very few Christians are "real Christians" then, as too many atrocities have been committed or supported by Christians over the past 2000 years. Most Christians, including most of the Religious Right, were ALL for Bush's illegal and evil wars and his institution of torture. I knew immediately it was wrong. Ask yourself a scary and real question: If these devoted evangelical Christians, who appear to be praying, accepting Jesus, and reading the Bible were absolutely oblivious to the evil going on, while many non-Christians or liberal Christians knew right away, what does that say about contemporary Christianity's "Fruits of the spirit." Where was the "spirit of truth" of the Holy Spirit?


Yes that is very true. There are few true Christians. People masquerade under the guise of religion in order to commit atrocities. God wouldn't tell George bush to destabilize Iraq and cause the deaths of 100's of thousands of citizens.

God wouldn't condone the sexual abuse of children at the hands of the catholic church. God doesn't condone the catholic church at all it is a cult which worships false idols.


I personally agree that God or a higher power would not command anyone to or condone anyone committing sexual abuse, mass murder, wars of aggression, and so on.

I am no fan of the Catholic Church due to some of the history.

But a lot of protestants as we are discussing now have committed atrocities too. Remember, the entire British Empire was ostensibly protestant and most of the US foreign policy actions have occurred under the banner of Christianity.

What I don't want you to think is that I am singling out Christianity. Obviously there have been atrocities committed in the name of other religions.


You just hit the nail on the head without even realizing it.
"But a lot of protestants as we are discussing now have committed atrocities too. Remember, the entire British Empire was ostensibly protestant and most of the US foreign policy actions have occurred under the banner of Christianity. "


So then, do you extend the same grace to general Islam when deluded or extremist groups "under the banner" of Islam commit terrorism or something else? Do you also say "but they aren't real Muslims, and are abusing the name of Islam?"



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 08:48 PM
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originally posted by: TechUnique

originally posted by: Klassified
Luke 6

Blessed are you when men hate you, And when they exclude you, And revile you, and cast out your name as evil, For the Son of Man’s sake. 23 Rejoice in that day and leap for joy! For indeed your reward is great in heaven, For in like manner their fathers did to the prophets.

1 Peter 4

12 Beloved, do not think it strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened to you; 13 but rejoice to the extent that you partake of Christ’s sufferings, that when His glory is revealed, you may also be glad with exceeding joy. 14 If you are reproached for the name of Christ, blessed are you, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. On their part He is blasphemed, but on your part He is glorified. 15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, a thief, an evildoer, or as a busybody in other people’s matters. 16 Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in this matter. 17 For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?

John 16

...They will put you out of the synagogues. yes, the time is coming that whoever kills you will think that he offers God service. And these things they will do to you because they have not known the Father nor Me. But these things I have told you, that when the time comes, you may remember that I told you of them.

2 Timothy

…all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution

If the bible is infallible as you say on the first page, and you are indeed a christian. It would seem that everything you're screaming is happening, is what is expected to happen, according to the bible.


Yes which is why I don't resent it. I don't like however how everyone is trying to sweep this under the rug. Not once have I heard anyone cry out for the dead children who were beheaded..

Someone said I am judging people for being gay. No I am not. I don't think they are bad people. God says that homosexuality is a sin. Me saying that in the least provocative manner I can and at a time that is relevant is not me judging. There is no hate or angst or bitterness behind it. Surely you can see that from my words, I am not hateful or judgmental I am in fact quite caring.

I care about these HUMAN BEINGS being persecuted.

Do you?


You care about Christians being persecuted not human beings. Did you read your own post?



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 08:54 PM
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originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: TechUnique




Yes that is very true. There are few true Christians. People masquerade under the guise of religion in order to commit atrocities. God wouldn't tell George bush to destabilize Iraq and cause the deaths of 100's of thousands of citizens.


Really???

You know he has a bad history of commanding horrible things.

Like lets say command the extermination of the Canaanites?

So you know your gods got a bad rep and who are you to say if he did or didn't tell GB to do such. At the very least you got to think how that looks to the people of the nation getting obliterated. Do you think they say there gd wouldn't do that?

Do you look at the beheadings and say "their god wouldn't condone that"? Think.


And, as you noted, the Muslims being bombed to kingdom come just see a bunch of crazy white "Christian" folks attacking their nation. I agree that just like Christians overgeneralizing all Muslims, it is not good if Muslims judge all Christians or target random Christians or Westerners. But still, some of the backlash is fair.


The backlash is at least partially understandable although massively misguided. I believe this is a purposeful agenda.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 08:59 PM
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originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: TechUnique

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: TechUnique




Yes that is very true. There are few true Christians. People masquerade under the guise of religion in order to commit atrocities. God wouldn't tell George bush to destabilize Iraq and cause the deaths of 100's of thousands of citizens.


Really???

You know he has a bad history of commanding horrible things.

Like lets say command the extermination of the Canaanites?

So you know your gods got a bad rep and who are you to say if he did or didn't tell GB to do such. At the very least you got to think how that looks to the people of the nation getting obliterated. Do you think they say there gd wouldn't do that?

Do you look at the beheadings and say "their god wouldn't condone that"? Think.


God would not condone the killing of innocent children unless it was necessary for the greater good. Is it necessary in these cases? No.

Yes, in some cases God has killed people. Do you know why? Because he had to. And before anyone asks me why God kills babies in Africa you can blame that on the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation.

THEY are just another arm of the satanic new world order.

Can you see all the suffering happening in the world? Satan is running rife. This needs to stop. You are being offered eternal life but you are not taking it. Your life is beyond this world and when God has to destroy what Satan has turned the world into you will not be saved..

Unless you repent and accept Jesus Christ as the one true way to God. This has all been written down if you would just read the bible.



But wait, you didn't address the genocide of the Canaanites by the Hebrews in the OT.

This is the clincher.

Christians I have spoken with about this have said "God ordered the genocide of the Canaanites because the land belongs to the Jews. Jews were the chosen race of God and the line of David had to remain pure to bring forth the Messiah. The Canaanites were unclean, impure, and would have polluted God's chosen people."

I showed this to one of my liberal Jewish friends who had never read all of it or the justifications. His response free recall without any prompting: "This sounds just like how the Nazis treated the Jews."

It is.... The Christian justifications for the genocide of the Canaanites are almost identical to why the Nazis started exterminating people.

When you start justifying such things in the Bible, then it therefore opens up Pandora's Box and who is to say that other groups can't claim "the end justifies the means" or "God had to have me kill these people."


We cannot understand the workings of God it their entirety because God is outside of time and we are not. I hope the source I provide will shed more light on the very interesting point you raise. This point is a question among a lot of Christians.


Answer: In 1 Samuel 15:2-3, God commanded Saul and the Israelites, “This is what the LORD Almighty says: 'I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.'" God ordered similar things when the Israelites were invading the promised land (Deuteronomy 2:34; 3:6; 20:16-18). Why would God have the Israelites exterminate an entire group of people, women and children included?

This is honestly a very difficult issue. We do not fully understand why God would command such a thing, but at the same time we trust God that He is just – and recognize that we are incapable of fully understanding a sovereign, infinite, and eternal God. As we look at difficult issues such as this one, we have to remember that God’s ways are higher than our ways and His thoughts are higher than our thoughts (Isaiah 55:9; Romans 11:33-36). We have to be willing to trust God and have faith in Him even when we do not understand His ways.

Unlike us, God knows the future. God knew what the results would be if Israel did not completely eradicate the Amalekites. If Israel did not carry out God’s orders, the Amalekites would come back to “haunt” the Israelites again and again. Saul claimed to have killed everyone but the Amalekite king Agag (1 Samuel 15:20). Obviously Saul was lying…just a couple of decades later there were enough Amalekites to take David and his men’s families captive (1 Samuel 30:1-2). After David and his men attacked the Amalekites and rescued their families, 400 Amalekites escaped. If Saul had fulfilled what God had commanded him, this never would have occurred. Several hundred years later, a descendant of Agag, Haman, tried to have the entire Jewish people exterminated (see the book of Esther). So, Saul’s incomplete obedience almost resulted in Israel’s destruction. God knew this would occur, so He ordered the extermination of the Amalekites ahead of time.

In regard to the Canaanites, God commanded, “However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them — the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites — as the LORD your God has commanded you. Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the LORD your God” (Deuteronomy 20:16-18). The Israelites failed in this mission as well, and exactly what God said would happen occurred (Judges 2:1-3; 1 Kings 11:5; 14:24; 2 Kings 16:3-4). God did not order the extermination of these people to be cruel, but rather to prevent even greater evil from occurring in the future.

Probably the most difficult part of these commands from God is that God ordered the death of children and infants as well. Why would God order the death of innocent children? (1) Children are not innocent (Psalm 51:5; 58:3). (2) These children would have likely grown up as adherents to the evil religions and practices of their parents. (3) By ending their lives as children, God enabled them to have entrance into Heaven. We strongly believe that all children who die are accepted into Heaven by the grace and mercy of God (2 Samuel 12:22-23; Mark 10:14-15; Matthew 18:2-4).

Again, this answer does not completely deal with all the issues. Our focus should be on trusting God even when we do not understand His ways. We also have to remember that God looks at things from an eternal perspective, and that His ways are higher than our ways. God is just, righteous, holy, loving, merciful, and gracious. How His attributes work together can be a mystery to us – but that does not mean that He is not who the Bible proclaims Him to be.

Why did God command the extermination / genocide of the Canaanites, women and children included?

I apologize, I wasn't shying away from your question.




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