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If God knows the future then no one has free will

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posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 03:04 PM
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a reply to: danielsil18

Ofcourse its limited. In this reality I dont have the option to turn into Scooby-Doo. Your choices maybe limited, but free will still exists.




posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 03:06 PM
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originally posted by: danielsil18
If we choose our destiny then god wouldnt know our future because it depends on our actions.

You're still missing the point of my analogy.
God's awareness of present and future being simultaneous, he can see NOW the FUTURE effects of our actions, which doesn't stop them being our own actions.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 03:06 PM
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When we are born we are born with free will , we can make whatever choices we want in life.

Time has no bearing or meaning for God.

Even though we have free will there will always be a limited set of outcomes, God can see each and every outcome. We get to decide our fate but we are bound by the limited outcomes. What God sees are the choices we can make.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 03:07 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

But if the future depends on our actions then the future cant be known since it depends on the actions we make. It would be up to us to change the future. But if the future is known then the future wouldnt be up to us.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 03:09 PM
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a reply to: danielsil18

So if every door led to one room would you not still have several choices?

Not to open the door.

To go back to other doors again to see through them again.

To never walk through many doors or go through many?

To sit in one room for eternity.

It's all one and the same really.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 03:09 PM
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originally posted by: danielsil18
a reply to: DeadSeraph

If we choose our destiny then god wouldnt know our future because it depends on our actions.

If god knows the outcome of our life then our actions dont matter because our outcome is already predestined.



You're missing my point about being outside of space and time. Say I have a time machine, and I go into the future and I see you make a certain decision. I now know the decision you made in the future. If I come back to the present, I know what choice you will make, but I am not forcing you to make that choice. I might be able to ALTER the choice you make if I tell you about how it will affect you in the future, but the choice is ultimately up to you to make.

If god is outside of time, and is omniscient, then all possible outcomes in all possible timelines are already known to Him. He has already read the book, and knows what the outcome of any and all possible choices you could have made. The choice is still yours, but the outcome is known to Him alone.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 03:09 PM
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a reply to: danielsil18

Well in Abrahamic religions there is no free will. Their scripture claims there is free will yet the same scriptures contradict that notion every time their deity interferes. Anytime someone claims they have been touched by god, seen god, heard god, god spared their life that is direct interference = no free will. Then there were the big things where their god ordered killing laid out laws changed peoples languages or simply wiped out civilizations = no free will. However you are also correct in that if god knew all the things to come then in fact you never had free will to begin with.

Free will is just another one of those things that is completely contradictory in abrahamic religions.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 03:10 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko




You can take actions to try to cause it to be or try to avert it, but all you do is take different routes to the same conclusion because you don't see the whole.


I would call this limited free will.

Because true free will would be one where you can change the conclusion with the actions you make.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 03:10 PM
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originally posted by: danielsil18
If god knows the future up to the actions we recently made (Which is what I assume you were trying to explain) then the future depends on the actions we make. Which would mean that god doesnt know the future because we still have more decisions to make that will change the future.

No, that is NOT what I was trying to explain.
What I was trying to explain is that God can ALREADY see the decsions we WILL make.
Just as I can ALREADY see the decisions King Charles will make in what to him is the future.
That doesn't stop them being his own decisions or make them my decisions.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 03:14 PM
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a reply to: the2ofusr1



With God and the end destination it is Him that will get you there no matter the route you choose to take .


I'm starting to see a trend. Three posters basically said the same thing.

I call this limited free will.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 03:16 PM
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a reply to: DeadSeraph



God knew you would choose to marry Lindsay. He did not coerce you to do so.


Yes, but my point is that you basically had no choice because it was supposed to happen.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 03:21 PM
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a reply to: Taupin Desciple



And that one room you speak of is death. That's it. That's all there is at the end of the road that we can prove exists.


I agree, but many people believe in an after life. Then the room I speak of could be Heaven or Hell.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 03:21 PM
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originally posted by: danielsil18
a reply to: DeadSeraph



God knew you would choose to marry Lindsay. He did not coerce you to do so.


Yes, but my point is that you basically had no choice because it was supposed to happen.


You don't seem to be grasping how time plays into this...



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 03:21 PM
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a reply to: danielsil18

I see you're not at all picking up what I'm putting down and I do hate repeating myself so agree to disagree.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 03:22 PM
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a reply to: DeadSeraph

Thank you, exactly. You're picking up what I'm putting down.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 03:24 PM
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originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: danielsil18

Ofcourse its limited. In this reality I dont have the option to turn into Scooby-Doo. Your choices maybe limited, but free will still exists.


I would say limited as in you wouldnt choose who you married if god knew who you would marry or you couldnt choose your destination if it was bound to happen anyway.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 03:29 PM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

I understand your point and I'll give you an example to show you my point:

Say Im behind you with a gun in my hand. You have no idea im behind you.

Lets say there are two options:

I could shoot you and you will die or I could walk away and you wont die.

Your point was that I have the free will to shoot you or not and god knows the future if I shoot and the future if I dont shoot.

My point is that god doesnt know whats going to happen because that depends on me.

So if we go a day before I was behind you and someone asks god "tomorrow, will that guy shoot Disraeli?" then god wouldnt know the answer because that depends on me.

edit on 16-11-2014 by danielsil18 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 03:31 PM
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a reply to: bluloa



We get to decide our fate but we are bound by the limited outcomes. What God sees are the choices we can make.


This would mean that god doesnt know the future because the future depends on the actions we make.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 03:34 PM
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a reply to: Treespeaker

I meant that our destiny wouldnt depend on the actions we make. That's if our destiny was already predestined.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 03:35 PM
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a reply to: DeadSeraph

How could time play into it?

Nvm, read my reply to Disraeli. I think you have the same point as him.
edit on 16-11-2014 by danielsil18 because: (no reason given)




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