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If God knows the future then no one has free will

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posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 01:56 PM
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If someone knows what decisions we will make, who we will marry, what will happen to us, when we will die, etc then it suggests that we dont have free will. We are just experiencing the life we are supposed to have.

This would only apply to those who believe god has a "divine plan" and/or knows the future.

If god knew who you would marry and you married that person then you never had that choice. But if you chose someone else then god doesnt know the future.

if god knows the future then more questions would come like the tree in the Garden of Eden when god "tested" Adam and Eve or when satan was created.

But my question is how could we have free will if god knows our future or already planned everything out.




posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 02:05 PM
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We have free will.

Just things are known ahead of time.

It's possible for things to be written in stone even if free will exists. It's just that no matter what we do things will still occur how they're foreseen.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 02:07 PM
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a reply to: danielsil18

It's more like a plan...or think about it that way.


The perfect life plan is set before a person and they choose what they want second by second. That is free will and consequences to even the smallest actions. Very personal yet detached.

The assumption that a higher power would have ulterior motives to make a person suffer for some reason is absurd.

Most of the religious texts are trying to say the same thing in a way, and keep it in a positive light.

The way things are is not really debate able, as the world and how it works is a finit and defined truth, it is what it is...not how it is seen.


Interesting topic.


Cheers



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 02:10 PM
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First you have to ask yourself who God is. When you find out who it really is, you will see that there is no defined future. There are higher probabilities based on the choices you've made and the way you think and feel. Whatever does end up happening, is all because of YOU. You're the creator my friend.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 02:10 PM
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a reply to: Yeahkeepwatchingme

Then we dont have the free will to change our destiny.

It would be like a room with many doors that lead to only one room, you are bound to get to that room no matter which door you choose.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 02:16 PM
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a reply to: danielsil18
This is a classic line of argument.
Martin Luther uses it, as I've just been reading this week.
Nevertheless, I don't think it follows.

Let me offer an analogy.
If I read a history of the Civil War, I know everything that King Charles is going to do. I know all the mistakes he is going to make. In effect I know his future.
But I don't control his future. His freedom of action is not limited by me in any way.
The ONLY reason I know his future is that I am able to read his life from a standpoint at which he has ALREADY made the decisions which afffected his life.
If he had made a different set of decisions, then I would still know his future, but it would be a different future.

There is no philosophical reason why God's knowledge of our future should be any different from that.
He knows our future because his standpoint enables him NOW to see our lives AFTER we have made any relevant decisions.
If we made different decisions, then he would still see our future, but it would be a different future.
What he sees is the final version after we have made our final decisions.

There may be scriptural statements against free will, and Martin Luther would show them to you, but "God knows our future" is not in itself an effective objection.






edit on 16-11-2014 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 02:16 PM
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a reply to: danielsil18

Im not suggesting everything is preordained but free will is an illusion, the notion exists simply to stop us all going mad.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 02:16 PM
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a reply to: danielsil18

So does the idea that God knows what you will do change the fact that you don't know what you will do?

Let's say that God does know how it all plays out. Then God knows who will win the Super Bowl this year. If that's true, then we shouldn't bother to play all the games; after all, there's no point, right? It's all ordained and there really isn't any competition. There's just one problem - Do you know who that team is? Do I? Does anyone here? Of course not, only God apparently knows that, and He isn't telling anyone. So, we still have to play the games to find out because we don't know. And therefore, as far as that goes, we have free will. The teams could just give up assuming that it's all ordained and known, but I haven't noticed any of them playing any less hard because they figure that it's already decided.

And if no one plays the games, then no one wins, but God would know that too, right? Still the teams would make that choice figuring that we would already know the winner of the Super Bowl, and oops! there wouldn't be one.

So, since we don't and can't know what God knows, we carry on with no knowledge. We don't know what will be because we can't know what will be and therefore, we make our choices freely because we have no idea what we will choose.

This might possibly be one of the reasons why God forbade fortune telling. He wanted us to make our choices as freely as possible without any foreknowledge of what might or could or would be.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 02:24 PM
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a reply to: danielsil18

Free will and predestination are two sides of the same coin. We are predestined to election or eternal death because God knows all the possibilities, and which possibility we will elect into reality on the individual and collective level. Just because God knows your decision before hand does not mean your free will is violated.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 02:24 PM
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a reply to: danielsil18

If the only path is forward what's the point in telling someone they can move backwards?

We can do whatever we want. But things are too complex for our actions to take effect.

Far away the Earth looks like a blue marble. If you could see all of existence, Earth wouldn't even be perceived. Too small, too insignificant on the grand scale.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 02:26 PM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

I understand the point you bring up. That would suggest that god doesnt know whats going to happen because the future depends on everyone's actions meaning:

- god doesnt know whats going to happen
- there is no "divine plan"



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 02:26 PM
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a reply to: danielsil18

Knowing and controlling ones future are two completely different things.

Another thought, with the idea of a multiverse perhaps every single one of our decisions are played out.
edit on 16-11-2014 by Swills because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 02:26 PM
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A interesting question . So we can and will assume that God has a plan and it will come about . Lets take the bride of Christ which is every believer .Now we don't know know how many there will be or how long it will be before the last believer is added . God in His wisdom knows the time and the day and He is keeping that to Himself . I would think that there will come a time when Satan may only know that his time will be very short . That will probably be when we see TSHTF . Well maybe not all will see that part but who ever is not on the list that has not believed in His Son Jesus Christ will probably see it . They would have exercised their free will to not believe while others chose to believe . imo



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 02:30 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

If we knew what team would win, who would score and who would get injured then there is no free will. Everyone would play because we dont know who would win, but the winners are already predestined no matter what anyone does.

like i said before. You have many doors in front of you that only lead to one door, thats not free will. Free will would mean that our actions could change the future. Meaning no one should know who the winner is going to be.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 02:32 PM
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a reply to: danielsil18

We look at existence through the limited capabilities of human vision.

We have free will. But things are so complex that even if we chose to go right or left, the path is ultimately still the same.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 02:33 PM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Free will wouldnt be violated because there wouldnt be free will at all.

If i knew you would be a lawyer for bank of america before you were born, and you become a lawyer for bank of america. What free will did you have on that matter?



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 02:33 PM
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a reply to: danielsil18


But my question is how could we have free will if god knows our future or already planned everything out.

I think 'free will' comes not from "going against God", but going against what we know is right in our heart. We have that choice and we act against our "reason" or "better judgment" all the time.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 02:34 PM
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a reply to: Yeahkeepwatchingme

My point is free will.

If there is only one way you can go and one destination you can reach then you have no choice of where you are going and where you will end up.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 02:36 PM
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a reply to: Swills

But knowing someone's future means that person's actions wont change his own future because his future is already laid out.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 02:37 PM
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originally posted by: danielsil18
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Free will wouldnt be violated because there wouldnt be free will at all.

If i knew you would be a lawyer for bank of america before you were born, and you become a lawyer for bank of america. What free will did you have on that matter?


You simply would have known my will, you would not have had a hand in my decision making process.

You arent the first to raise this question, I asked the same question years ago. Sometimes you have to invest faith before collecting the answer.
edit on 16-11-2014 by BELIEVERpriest because: addition




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