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Gerrymandering the Democrat Way

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posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 03:14 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


originally posted by: sheepslayer247
Conservatism no longer means what it once did. The real conservatives are quickly jumping ship and going to the Libertarian party.


I've gotta' totally agree with this. Both the democrats and republicans have agendas that are outside what the parties supposedly stand for. The republicans of today aren't the same as they were 50 years ago. Ditto the democrats. JFK wouldn't recognize what the democratic party has become.

That being said, gerrymandering is found equally with both the democrats and the republicans. It's silly for people on one side to point at the other and say 'we are ONLY doing it because they do it so they are to blame for this mess'. Republicans say they do it because the dems do it. Dems say they do it because the Republicans do it. Both sides REALLY do it because they want the power and would do it anyways. Neither side would 'play nice' if the other side did. Both sides would take advantage of the other given the opportunity.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



edit on 11/16/2014 by FlyersFan because: spelling




posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 03:54 PM
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originally posted by: sheepslayer247
a reply to: Logarock

I've never liked the tactics politicians in state governments use to manipulate things in their favor. Both parties have done this, but unfortunately it appears that the Republicans are better at it and since they control more state governments....we should expect more it.


The Nov 2014 Republican sweep was due to:

1.) Republicans who came out to take back the Senate.

2.) Dems who did not bother to vote.




What conservative voices? I have yet to find a true conservative in congress, in the MSM or even on talk radio. If you said neoconservative, I would agree. Conservatism no longer means what it once did. The real conservatives are quickly jumping ship and going to the Libertarian party.


Wrong. The "real" Conservatives are NOT social liberals, as Libertarians are. Libertarians are social liberals and fiscal conservatives.

The "real" Conservatives are social conservatives (mostly Christian Fundies) and fiscal conservatives. Think rabidly Anti-abortion, Anti-Gay marriage, Creationists. Many rallied around Ron Paul and made up the bulk of the Tea Party supporters. Many in this group refused to vote for Romney because he established Romneycare in MA and because he's Mormon.

Before the Bush "NeoCons" -- Republicans were fairly "center-of-the-road" realists -- think Sen. John McCain.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 04:01 PM
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It's so common now to write off bad political practices by saying "but both sides do it."

What happened to the general playground principle of "two wrongs don't make a right"?

Also, as is seen in the article I linked above, yes there is evidence that both parties do it, but that the Republicans have now done it to such an incredible degree that any semblance of fair elections is starting to disappear in this country. As our friends on the right are so gleefully pointing out, Republicans just won at the State level so that they control the state chambers 69-30.

In each national election that we've seen in the last few cycles, Democrats win by millions in the popular vote, but still lose in representation?

That seems like a basic inequity that anyone who believes in the power of every vote would be concerned about.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 04:19 PM
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Here's an interesting site that has data on every Congressional District.

Good for argumentative comparisons......

My Congressional District




posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 05:34 PM
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The small/medium sized city I live in was split so that the Urban areas were placed with one district and the rest of the city with another. The city itself is heavily liberal/democratic and the surrounding areas were primarily republican - the effect of the redistricting is that the democratic voices have been awkwardly split and thus diffused.

sarcasm on/No, this was not strategically done! Of course not! It was more like...redecorating...than redistricting! NOT intended to take away a liberal/democratic stronghold's power...don't be silly... /sarcasm



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 05:46 PM
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a reply to: AboveBoard

Somebody needs to sue.




posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 05:54 PM
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originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: AboveBoard

Somebody needs to sue.



Xuenchen - ya lost me there. ???

Sue?

= not me



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 06:30 PM
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originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

I often wonder how electing members of the House could be done differently, it's absurd as it is now.



I often wonder how they can be so bold faced. I mean come on the map here looks, well painfully obvious to the point of face palming.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 06:32 PM
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a reply to: xuenchen

They did in Maryland. Haven't looked into results yet.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 06:34 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
It's so common now to write off bad political practices by saying "but both sides do it."

What happened to the general playground principle of "two wrongs don't make a right"?

Also, as is seen in the article I linked above, yes there is evidence that both parties do it, but that the Republicans have now done it to such an incredible degree that any semblance of fair elections is starting to disappear in this country. As our friends on the right are so gleefully pointing out, Republicans just won at the State level so that they control the state chambers 69-30.

In each national election that we've seen in the last few cycles, Democrats win by millions in the popular vote, but still lose in representation?

That seems like a basic inequity that anyone who believes in the power of every vote would be concerned about.



LOL. Nice try but I can read the stitches on that fast ball. Lamenting that both sides do it.
but blame the republicans for excess.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 06:37 PM
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a reply to: FlyersFan

Fan what you say is true. One of the primary reasons this got posted is because one of the members on this very thread was ranting on the republicans elsewhere for doing it and in a tone as if the dems didn't. Like it was some sort of Republican idea. So I posted this which is the worst case example of it in the country.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 06:39 PM
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posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 06:43 PM
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originally posted by: xuenchen
This can't be possible.

Why would Democrats want to marginalize lower populated Republican areas?





The example posted above......that's what the Dems call assimilating into the culture. lol They certainly drive down every street and maybe even get out and knock to see were the Hispanics start fading to white of black faces and then draw a line. The party of inclusion.

Hay just knocking a few barnacles of the façade here that's all.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 06:49 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: xuenchen

So, are you saying that it's okay for Republicans to gerrymander the heck out of "urban" districts just to disempower Democratic voters? Because they're Democrats each of their sacredly important votes shouldn't count the same?

Do I have this correct?


You know I am not saying its ok for Republicans to do it. Just sick of the white robed butter wouldn't melt in their mouth Dems deflecting.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 06:59 PM
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a reply to: Logarock

The Illinois 5th and 7th Districts are similar.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 07:11 PM
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a reply to: Logarock

You don't have to be coy if you're referring to me, Logarock. It's okay to say "Gryph said."

Let's look at what you're offering, objectively here.

One district in one state is your evidence for Democratic gerrymandering.

The article I cited gave hundreds of examples in multiple states for Republican gerrymandering.

Am I still "ranting" or just pointing out facts inconvenient to your argument?

Your witty baseball analogies notwithstanding, where is your evidence? You just attempt to wave off the facts without addressing them. If my facts are incorrect, demonstrate that. If you have information that counters the evidence, give it.

When I say that there is a clear nationwide effort on the part of the Republican party to control redistricting in their favor, and I provide clear evidence like I have, including the REDMAP effort, which clearly states the intentions of the Republican State Leadership Committee right on the FRONT PAGE in huge letters:



Republicans have an opportunity to create 20-25 new Republican Congressional Districts through the redistricting process over the next five election cycles, solidifying a Republican House majority.


I defy you to find anything even slightly similar to that created by Democrats.

If you can't then you need to own up to this "false equivalency" effort that you and others are on here.

That is, if you want your writing to have any semblance of integrity at all.

Oh and the little quip about Democrats wearing "white sheets robes" ... do you have any proof that's from this century?

And please, don't even start on deflection ... that's the composition of 99% of your low-information, no-evidence, posts.
edit on 19Sun, 16 Nov 2014 19:14:54 -060014p0720141166 by Gryphon66 because: noted



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 07:42 PM
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originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: AboveBoard

The Latest


Litigation in the 2010 cycle



What is your commentary on the significance of that information, Xuenchen?

Great resources, lots of information, but ... what does all that mean to you?



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 07:46 PM
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Here's more directly from the Republican State Leadership Committee's REDMAP Website:



The rationale was straightforward: Controlling the redistricting process in these states would have the greatest impact on determining how both state legislative and congressional district boundaries would be drawn. Drawing new district lines in states with the most redistricting activity presented the opportunity to solidify conservative policymaking at the state level and maintain a Republican stronghold in the U.S. House of Representatives for the next decade.

To fund the initiative, the RSLC raised more than $30 million in 2009-2010, and invested $18 million after Labor Day 2010 alone. Specifically, the RSLC:

Spent $1.4 million targeting four New York State Senate seats, winning two and control of the New York State Senate. (-2 Congressional seats).
Spent nearly $1 million in Pennsylvania House races, targeting and winning three of the toughest races in the state. (-1 Congressional seat).
Spent nearly $1 million in Ohio House races, targeting six seats, five of which were won by Republicans. Notably, President Obama carried five of these six legislative districts in 2008. (-2 Congressional seats).
Spent $1 million in Michigan working with the Michigan House Republican Campaign Committee and Michigan Republican Party to pick up 20 seats. (-1 Congressional seat).
Spent $750,000 in Texas as part of an effort that resulted in 22 House pick-ups. (+4 Congressional seats).
Spent $1.1 million in Wisconsin to take control of the Senate and Assembly.
Committed resources to Colorado (more than $550,000) and North Carolina (more than $1.2 million).
The RSLC also invested more than $3 million across a number of other states including Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kentucky, Maine, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, Oregon, Tennessee and Washington. (Five of these eleven states gained or lost Congressional seats).


All of this, ADMITTED to by a national Republican committee, set against one or two districts in Illinois???

Yeahhh ... it's all just the same thing. Democrats do it a couple of times, Republicans have a national effort and website that crows about them doing it in every state ... but it's just tit-for-tat.

Just remember, every vote counts, every vote is sacred ... as long as it's Republican.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 08:02 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

You're highlighting something that really needs to be understood by all.

I have only seen a couple people on this site that will defend the democrats tooth and nail over any issue, yet the biggest forum gang on this site are the Republicans that cannot except the fact that their party is just as bad (or worse) than the Democrats....and go to any length necessary to defend their actions, even when it contradicts a true conservative ideology.

They are hypocrites.

They talk a good game, but when presented with facts they will obfuscate and side-step so that they do not have to confront the realty that they are being taken for fools......and are being used to perpetuate the goals of the biggest-baddest propaganda machine in this country.

Blind allegiance is the biggest threat to our republic and if we allow this to continue, our country will continue down the road to an all-out fascist state.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 08:15 PM
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a reply to: sheepslayer247

I am well-aware of the failings of the Democratic party. First of all they're fricking politicians.

Democrats lie. Democrats cheat. In short, they're human.

But there is something that has taken hold in this country in the last 10-15 years. It is a mentality that is spreading, that is based on nothing more than rhetoric and belief. It is coupled with religious belief, which to my mind makes it even more dangerous, though I will admit that is my own bias.

What disturbs me is the anti-fact, anti-evidence, anti-science, anti-logic nature of this virus mentality. It is spreading. You can see it here. I ended up acting like I was "defending Democrats" mostly because I try to find out what the facts are and demonstrate that. What we see here is just the parroted commentary that comes from the usual suspected sources: Fox, Rush, Hannity, Beck, Blogsphere, etc.

I will admit quite readily that the Republicans are winning that fight. It's like Democrats just think it's all going to go away, that they don't have to "stoop to that level" to challenge the BS that passes for truth. I find that to be one of Obama's GREATEST failings to me ... he doesn't stand up for himself, for what he believes in, for what his party stands for ... like you said, earlier Sheepslayer ... they're fricking WOOSIES.

... at the moment though, there are only two real viable choices, so I'll take the plate of feces WITHOUT the ground glass in it, if you please.


edit on 20Sun, 16 Nov 2014 20:40:34 -060014p0820141166 by Gryphon66 because: (no reason given)




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