What is a feminist, what is feminism, and what is a 'feminazi'? Do you know what they are?

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: nenothtu
a reply to: diggindirt

Now I dunno whose scarier - you or Annee. I mean, sure, you may be able to shoot, but she's got that whole "red hair" and "Scorpio" thing going on! I have had two "red haired Scorpios" in my life in the real world, and both were scary. So far, that's a 100% scare factor.

But, I do it with a smile

Did I mention my Baby Glock? . . . With Laser.

Now you are just making me jealous.

originally posted by: nenothtu
"Birds of a feather" was actually the first thought in my mind between Siri and ELIZA, but I didn't put it in the post because I thought it might be misconstrued.

You already know that's unavoidable.

Birds can be boys too.

originally posted by: nenothtu
Some poor NSA Analyst at Ft Meade is crappin' right about now, because she thinks we're talking in code.

But we are. Open source code called honesty. It's so rare that it's often mistaken for evil.

originally posted by: Annee
I embody war?

I really don't take these [insert disagreement] threads that seriously

--- never the twain shall meet --- never have, never will.

Never will... for you.

originally posted by: Annee
Or women in general?

Oh dear goodness no. Thankfully, you don't speak for all women. Or even most women.

Feminists in general, which includes men? Perhaps. That said... Christina Hoff Sommers is a woman and a feminist and I think she's pretty great.

originally posted by: Annee
I've been married for 20+ years. How about you?

Wait... did you just initiate a relationshipenis size comparison?

What were you doing the other 40+ years?

POWs have been held for 20+ years too.

originally posted by: ErgoTheAbsurd

What were you doing the other 40+ years?

POWs have been held for 20+ years too.

I've been married twice. The first was for 14 years. I get along with men really well.

Unfortunately, the first didn't want to share me with anyone, including his own children. I chose the kids.

Seriously, you're comparing a 20 year marriage to being a prisoner in a POW "camp"?

Are you that weak? You have a choice to be married or not.

originally posted by: amazing


It's not every feminist or the whole ideology. You can be a feminist and support feminism without buying into any of the fringe stuff.

Actually no, the built in gender bias and victimizing views on the patriarchy are feminism 101, they aren't fringe at all. All the feminist writings and videos I have ever encountered include them. The fringe are linking everything men do to our subconscious desire to rape, but the ones I'm talking about are at the core.

You have to dig deeper. Most people have never heard of egalitarianism, yet they have heard of feminism.

So, just go to the root. Why would a woman be a feminist, why do women and men support feminism? Because, despite all the flaws, it's a movement that promotes equality for women. That's the root and that's the point.

You're telling me to go deeper while settling in on the surface. When I point out mechanisms that establish a victim complex, I am going deeper. I don't deny women have issues that they face, but a victim complex isn't healthy.

The latest feminist outrage over the scientist's t-shirt, overlooked a great opportunity to empower women. There where women on the team that landed on the comet, but instead of glorifying those women, they chose to further victimize women, by saying "This shirt is why less women do science". If they shined a spotlight on these amazing female scientists, more young girls would be inspired, but that wouldn't get as much media attention as outrage, so they played the victim card instead.

This victimization has also been used against women's best interests. One example is when tobacco industry hired Edward Bernays to increase the number of female smokers, he did it by having a group of women walk through a parade with cigarettes that where re-branded as 'freedom torches'. The reason why freedom torches worked, is because women where oppressed, so any symbol of freedom, was a good one! These so called freedom torches actually enslaved women to the tobacco industry, while also reducing their health. The complete lack of benefits meant nothing, because freedom torches where a symbol that fit a narrative that they where susceptible too.

And you say more have heard of feminism than egalitarianism, but that means nothing. PETA is the most well know animal rights group, it doesn't mean that PETA is the best.

originally posted by: mahatche

originally posted by: amazing


It's not every feminist or the whole ideology. You can be a feminist and support feminism without buying into any of the fringe stuff.

Actually no, the built in gender bias and victimizing views on the patriarchy are feminism 101, they aren't fringe at all. All the feminist writings and videos I have ever encountered include them. The fringe are linking everything men do to our subconscious desire to rape, but the ones I'm talking about are at the core.

You have to dig deeper. Most people have never heard of egalitarianism, yet they have heard of feminism.

So, just go to the root. Why would a woman be a feminist, why do women and men support feminism? Because, despite all the flaws, it's a movement that promotes equality for women. That's the root and that's the point.

You're telling me to go deeper while settling in on the surface. When I point out mechanisms that establish a victim complex, I am going deeper. I don't deny women have issues that they face, but a victim complex isn't healthy.

The latest feminist outrage over the scientist's t-shirt, overlooked a great opportunity to empower women. There where women on the team that landed on the comet, but instead of glorifying those women, they chose to further victimize women, by saying "This shirt is why less women do science". If they shined a spotlight on these amazing female scientists, more young girls would be inspired, but that wouldn't get as much media attention as outrage, so they played the victim card instead.

This victimization has also been used against women's best interests. One example is when tobacco industry hired Edward Bernays to increase the number of female smokers, he did it by having a group of women walk through a parade with cigarettes that where re-branded as 'freedom torches'. The reason why freedom torches worked, is because women where oppressed, so any symbol of freedom, was a good one! These so called freedom torches actually enslaved women to the tobacco industry, while also reducing their health. The complete lack of benefits meant nothing, because freedom torches where a symbol that fit a narrative that they where susceptible too.

And you say more have heard of feminism than egalitarianism, but that means nothing. PETA is the most well know animal rights group, it doesn't mean that PETA is the best.

You have some good points, but if you were to ask anyone in the street why they support feminism, the answer you will get is that they want equality for women. That's what I would say and 90% of the people I know would say. I agree that playing victim is the worse thing you can do, but if you say that equality isn't at the heart of feminism, you're missing a big chunk of the picture. Most women who identify as feminists, just want that equality. My wife gets paid less than the guys she works with, though she's smarter and does more work. That's the problem.

originally posted by: MarkJS

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: MarkJS
"What is a feminist, what is feminism, and what is a 'feminazi'?"

Feminist- a person who expounds non-traditional rights for women. They believe in the empowered woman.

Feminism - a hypocritical movement.

Feminazi - a doctrine that is in its core- hypocritical.

The feminist movement went ahead and destroyed the image and role of women in America - giving them new powers, goals and responsibilities. BTW- not all women are happy about this. Many do not like working 40hrs/wk, and raising kids, and cleaning the house.

At any rate, the feminist movement, for better or worse, has changed the way women are perceived in American society.

They are total hypocrites, however... at least the official leaders of the feminist movement are. This is because they completely ignore the subservient role that the Muslim women have in America. Not a peep. Crickets chirping... which stops occasionally when a Muslim woman cries or groans under Muslim oppression. The crickets also stop chirping and wonder WTF when underaged Muslim girls are wed off- here in America, in their cultures without the local officials knowing anything about it.

If anybody ever needed freeing and liberation, it is Muslim women and girls living in America.

Way to go Feminazis. Hypocrites!

I'll bet you're out there fighting to end the oppression of women living under the fundamentalist Muslim and fundamentalist Christian thumb, aren't you? Not.

If you're in the feminist movement, in NOW.... that's your job. Or at least I thought that it was.

As a Christian, I have done my part to liberate women from oppression.

You just revealed that you don't even know that being a feminist does not imply membership in a particular organization. No, feminism is not a job. It's a way of life.

Exactly what have you done, as a Christian, to "liberate women from oppression." This I can't wait to hear.

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: nenothtu

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: NonsensicalUserName
a reply to: InTheLight

eh, interesting point...

could turn that arguement around though, and ask why the woman didn't use contraception as well..

The birth control pill becomes null and void when a woman takes anti-biotics...any way, why is it the woman's responsibility?

Because she has the sole right of decision whether or not to kill. Welcome to the man's world.

Right along with rights come responsibilities. Don't try to throw the responsibilities on a man unless your willing to give him the rights that go along with them.

If a man goes into a sexual relationship only to 'hit and run' then what rights does a man expect?

He's attempting to hijack the thread and turn this into an abortion debate. Don't buy into it.

originally posted by: diggindirt

originally posted by: amazing
Feminism is the fight for women to be treated as equal to men.

For whatever reason, mainly religious, women had been relegated to second class citizens.

Feminists fight for feminism, or that equality that they deserve.

A feminazi is the term that the men who fear that equality use. Those men like Rush Limbaugh and many on ATS who think women should walk 10 paces behind and should be paid less for equal work. Feminazi is a disgusting term.

Any man against feminism, either has his head in the sand and doesn't realize there is a problem or thinks that women are second class citizens and that they should learn their place.

Here's a news flash for you. Women are equal to men. It's that simple.

You can get into the argument that men are better MMA fighters, professional athletes, firemen and lumberjacks becuase of our bigger size, muscle mass etc. But...that's like saying that a man who has a disability is not equal to the man that isn't. But that's not what we're talking about and you guys know it. We're talking about everything else that women can do just as good as men.

I am a woman. I have been in the workforce since 1968. I have worked in jobs traditionally held by females. I have worked in jobs traditionally held by males. I have always negotiated my pay. I've done nothing unique. Any woman could go out and do the same.
That is why I am not inclined to devote any more of my time to the idea that women in the US are not equal. We are. However, being equal means making equal efforts---like taking the time and trouble to negotiate for wages.
In the area of "harassment" and "being offended"---nobody ever promised me that I could live my life completely free of any sort of harassment or offensive people. I learned in sixth grade that people can be mean. I was 5' 8" and weighed less than 100 pounds. I heard a lot of "Hey, string bean!" and "Do you stand under a clothesline when it rains?" and lots of other taunts. Fortunately, my parents were there to comfort me and teach me to deal with adversity over which I had no control. I learned quickly that refusing to be offended bothered the culprits far more than any snide retort I could make. I refused to give them the power over me. Any woman can do that, must do that if she is to be in charge of her life.
The feminist movement would do well to show women how to empower themselves rather than depending on laws to attain justice. However, a lot of women make a ton of money by keeping the feminist movement alive, empowering women to live without them would seriously diminish those returns.

The feminazis are real, I assure you. I've met 'em. They are motivated by revenge on men for the past. They are living in the 1940s, absolutely intolerant of any view outside their narrow path. They make Christian fundamentalists look positively tolerant! They are absolutely no fun at all---no fun to work with---and their idea of social fun is to sit around and bash men and rehash all the past wrongs done to women. I actually feel sorry for them because they are veritable social outcasts due to their nasty attitudes. Now please understand me, this is not some observation made in passing---this is the result of having lived and worked with five such women for a six week period. Absolutely the longest six weeks of my life.

There's more than a little self-loathing in your comments about some women being Nazis. Perhaps you should review history. The man who created that term is a loathsome woman-hater. That you would repeat that term puts you in the same camp. It's no different from using a racist epithet. No different at all.

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: mahatche

originally posted by: amazing
Any man against feminism, either has his head in the sand and doesn't realize there is a problem or thinks that women are second class citizens and that they should learn their place.

This is non sense, it's possible to want equality while disagreeing with the feminist approach. Many feminists go beyond arguments for female equality, and promote some very toxic views about men. I've already explained on page 11 why egalitarianism is a superior approach, so I won't repeat it, but if anyone is sticking their head in the sand, it's those who vilify criticism of an ideology that is so deeply flawed.

It's not every feminist or the whole ideology. You can be a feminist and support feminism without buying into any of the fringe stuff. I get offended by some stuff.

Why do you feel the need to be defensive about being a feminist? Would you be defensive about being pro civil rights? I know that the rest of your post offset that but it was still there. It's as though there's a subtext in this entire thread with women apologizing for being women and feeling the need to justify feminism. Perhaps that's the big hurdle we need to overcome. We don't have to justify ourselves. Let those who oppose equality for women justify themselves.

originally posted by: Annee
I've been married twice. The first was for 14 years. I get along with men really well.

Sweet! I get along with you too! /hug

originally posted by: Annee
Unfortunately, the first didn't want to share me with anyone, including his own children. I chose the kids.

Because they are easier to control.

originally posted by: Annee
Seriously, you're comparing a 20 year marriage to being a prisoner in a POW "camp"?

Nah... just you.

originally posted by: Annee
Are you that weak?

Nah. I'm not the one asking someone else to tie one hand behind their back so I can feel equal.

originally posted by: Annee
You have a choice to be married or not.

Indeed. Many men are choosing to not get married while choosing to be absolutely devoted in spite of the difficulties of life to the woman in their life. I have a significant partner. I have no doubt about my relationshipenis size on the metaphysical scale.

originally posted by: Tangerine
Why do you feel the need to be defensive about being a feminist?

Why do you feel the need to be something besides an egalitarian?

originally posted by: ErgoTheAbsurd

originally posted by: Tangerine
Why do you feel the need to be defensive about being a feminist?

Why do you feel the need to be something besides an egalitarian?

Your question suggests that you don't have a clue what feminism means. It's been explained repeatedly so re-explaining it is a waste of time.

originally posted by: Tangerine
Your question suggests that you don't have a clue what feminism means. It's been explained repeatedly so re-explaining it is a waste of time.

Your response suggests that you don't have a clue what feminism has been hijacked for. It's been explained repeatedly so re-explaining it is a waste of time.

originally posted by: amazing
You have some good points, but if you were to ask anyone in the street why they support feminism, the answer you will get is that they want equality for women. That's what I would say and 90% of the people I know would say.

If there is a label which 90% of the people automatically self identify with ahead of time before asking the consequences... can you imagine at all... what that label will be used for?



YAY!

originally posted by: Tangerine
If a man goes into a sexual relationship only to 'hit and run' then what rights does a man expect?

A woman can go into a sexual relationship only to 'hit and abort' or 'hit and extort'. LIBERTY!

originally posted by: Tangerine
He's attempting to hijack the thread and turn this into an abortion debate. Don't buy into it.

Because destruction of a developing human being which involved two people is a non issue. Unless she wants to keep it and then "It took BOTH OF US! PAY UP!"

originally posted by: ErgoTheAbsurd

originally posted by: amazing
You have some good points, but if you were to ask anyone in the street why they support feminism, the answer you will get is that they want equality for women. That's what I would say and 90% of the people I know would say.

If there is a label which 90% of the people automatically self identify with ahead of time before asking the consequences... can you imagine at all... what that label will be used for?

YAY!

But it's true, it's Feminism. I know lot's of strong women that identify as Feminists but are not victims or any of that other garbage. Just strong women, some in the army, some martial arts instructors, some police officers, some managers, or small business owners. They're feminists. It's the new definition. It's equality. That's what it's about now.

originally posted by: ErgoTheAbsurd

originally posted by: Tangerine
If a man goes into a sexual relationship only to 'hit and run' then what rights does a man expect?

A woman can go into a sexual relationship only to 'hit and abort' or 'hit and extort'. LIBERTY!

originally posted by: Tangerine
He's attempting to hijack the thread and turn this into an abortion debate. Don't buy into it.

Because destruction of a developing human being which involved two people is a non issue. Unless she wants to keep it and then "It took BOTH OF US! PAY UP!"

Thank you for revealing the origins of your anti-woman sentiments.

originally posted by: amazing

My wife gets paid less than the guys she works with, though she's smarter and does more work. That's the problem.

I'm not sure whether to ask "why do you let your wife take that kind of abuse" or "why does your wife put up with such nonsense", so I guess I'll ask neither.

I'll just say that my wife, even as one of those "oppressed Muslim women" didn't, so I'm not quite sure why an "enlightened western woman" would.

Life gets so strange, some times.

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: nenothtu

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: NonsensicalUserName
a reply to: InTheLight

eh, interesting point...

could turn that arguement around though, and ask why the woman didn't use contraception as well..

The birth control pill becomes null and void when a woman takes anti-biotics...any way, why is it the woman's responsibility?

Because she has the sole right of decision whether or not to kill. Welcome to the man's world.

Right along with rights come responsibilities. Don't try to throw the responsibilities on a man unless your willing to give him the rights that go along with them.

If a man goes into a sexual relationship only to 'hit and run' then what rights does a man expect?

He's attempting to hijack the thread and turn this into an abortion debate. Don't buy into it.

I'm pretty sure you're the only one who has mentioned "abortion" in the discussion in any than other a peripheral, lateral way, so don't be accusing ME of trying to derail the thread to abortion...

I was pretty clear in discussing women's rights vs. men's rights. You know, something closer to the actual topic?

Here's an example - I managed to answer the question without ever dragging it off into the field of abortion. You did not. WHO is trying to deflect again? Don't do that - it makes it look like you would have real trouble actually discussing the matter at hand, and would have to change the subject...

originally posted by: amazing

You have some good points, but if you were to ask anyone in the street why they support feminism, the answer you will get is that they want equality for women. That's what I would say and 90% of the people I know would say. .

I disagree, there have been several polls that show only 20-25% of people are willing to self identify as feminist, but when the same group was asked if they support gender equality, over 80% said yes. So clearly people are seeing past the equality buzzword, and disagreeing with the way feminists frame their argument on a deeper level.

This brings me back to my initial problem with your post. You said anti-feminists where burring their head in the sand, and maybe didn't like women. This isn't at all the case, if anything your defense played into their victimization. Dismissing criticism as blind irrational misogyny is disingenuous when real problems with the ideology exist.