Russian Warships Poised Outside G20 Summit In Australia, Russia Backs Out Of Nuclear Security Deal

a reply to: lostbook

Back someone into a corner the only direction they can go is forward right at you.

As well the US know and expect.

I honestly can't see Putin turning a blind eye to nuclear sales to terrorists. Especially given the problems he has had with Russia's breakaway satellite countries.

He may be a lot of things, but dumb isn't one of them and I am sure he realises that they are just as likely to end up in the hands of Chechnya rebels as they are in the Wests enemies hands. And god forbid that IS get hold of them, they don't seem to care who they kill.

Much ado about nothing

originally posted by: MysterX
a reply to: lostbook

Back someone into a corner the only direction they can go is forward right at you.

As well the US know and expect.

Your assessment of the situation is incorrect, Putin is in the situation where he can literally "destroy" the west. The problem with Putin, is that he's not going to do it ... he's more of your ally, than you think.

In 2008, George W. Bush denied to pay off dept to Europe, causing an almost total collapse of the European banking system.

In 2014, The US robbed Russia in Malta and Cyprus, which held most of their "dollar capital". Basically doing the same thing as in 2008, removing whatever dept there was ... and thus, buying the US another n number of years, on the budget.

These are the "hard" facts, the US has been playing the "Russia is bad" card, to try and up the stakes and make Russia a more "west" kinda guy. Their aim, is not Russia ... but Central Europe and Asia.

Europe has always been seen as a threat, by the prior colonies of the world. And of these prior nations, Russia is the only one still standing. Russia is Europe's only anchor ... and the only one, who can stop the current move towards a "Feudal" Europe.

I don't think any one of you, even so much as comprehend ... what is going on in Europe. It's basically far too long a discussion, to talk about here ... but all in all, Europe is in for a huge change ... where we are creating a third class in Europe. One that we basically removed, in the two world wars ... this "Feudal" system is returning. Now, I could try and show you a looking glass and tell you the consequences of this ... but that would be only speculation at this point, so there is little use. Except to say, the eventual consequences .... are catastrophic.

Basically, it's sort of funny ... that the only hope for Europe, to "escape" the Feudalism that it's heading towards ... is Russia. The enemy, is our only hope ... and the bad part is, Putin will never do what is needed to change the situation. He's not showing his muscles to help or change the course, he's there merely to make sure he gets his money back.

And, he's going to get it ... and the consequences for Europe is more unemployment, the collapse or close to collapse of German industry. Increased poverty and criminality in Europe, and finally ... a police state, to keep off the population to go at each others throats, followed by a slow movement towards a revolution and population "shift" in Europe.

My "guess" is that, this is the goal ... it's not something that is happening by accident, it is happening by design. And Putin isn't going to do anything, of what needs to be done ... he's not showing his teeth, because he wants to fight ... he's just showing his teeth, to "blackmail" the US to give them their money back ...

That's my take on the situation.

a reply to: hutch622

Hmm, do you think Julia would shirt front Putin there Hutchy. Would love to see that.

I have no doubt since the fall of the USSR, the US and NATO have gently given Russia some suggestions, if not a down right shove, a few times. And I think we are about to learn a valuable lesson. Never kick a man when he's down, people have long memory's and want retribution later.
Well, Russia is back, they have survived the break of the USSR and recovered to a point where a strong leader, Valdemar Putin, wants his satellite country's back. I don't think NATO will allow the rebuilding of a new Russian Empire.
The challenge is how close to the brink will either side come to achieve their said goals. Putin is nobody's fool. He will posture and push as much as he can get away with, and the US will rattle sabers, give speeches, and bring sanctions, but neither is crazy enough to want a shooting war. There can be no winner. One side or the other will lose a plane or two, or maybe even a ship, but cooler heads will prevail. I think a full on, first strike is out of the question, as both sides can defend them selves with the nuclear option.
Keeping nuc's hot and ready to fly is a dangerous thing. But not the huge drain on the economy most would think. If the bulk of the money is spent inside the borders of the US, the government will get it back as soon as it changes hands 5 or 6 times through taxes.
Eventually, Putin and Obama like Gorbachev, and Reagan, and so manny past leaders will lose favor and simply fade away.

This is madness by the west, for heavens sake it's time to back off and give Russia its sphere of influence, let em have Ukraine, it's always been theirs anyway. Pushing Russia is going to backfire here ladies and gents, it's too dumb a thing to do, give them their influence on what is theirs anyway and always has been. Push their economy much further and we will get bitten and with thousands of nukes it's going to really hurt.

If we don't let them have their own backyard then it's going to be awful for us, yes us, we will find the Russians supplying all the nasties like Iran etc with nukes. Ask yourself........Do you want countries like Iran and Venezuela having nukes? Russia brewing up the Middle East to attack our forces? Russia can make hell on Earth for us all, so what for, just so we can make Ukraine a NATO/EU colony in the long term? Think about it for heavens sake

a reply to: lostbook

:-)
with the new gasdeal with china Russia can sing out for an while....question = can we ???????
note:
Russia can stop delivering gas to europe at once now
wich will kill the euro instandly
yessss lets make moore sanctions to Russia for ....some benefits for who?????????????????a reply to: AreUKiddingMe

a reply to: ressiv

It's madness sanctioning Russia. They must have leverage over Ukraine as it belongs to their influence and economy, culture, it's like roles reversed with Russia taking over Mexico and Canada filling it with Moscow military 'advisors' and the like, it's mad, the US wouldn't have it, just like Putin isn't having it now.

As you say just wait til they turn off the gas come December. Then we'll see how much EU beurotwats like pushing the bear

the western economy system is bankrupt...only wat is keep it running is pumping money round..
the past will show you that only an big world war is an chance to turn things round..
the controles are set now in that direction
god help us...a reply to: ufoorbhunter

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
a reply to: ressiv

It's madness sanctioning Russia. They must have leverage over Ukraine as it belongs to their influence and economy, culture, it's like roles reversed with Russia taking over Mexico and Canada filling it with Moscow military 'advisors' and the like, it's mad, the US wouldn't have it, just like Putin isn't having it now.

As you say just wait til they turn off the gas come December. Then we'll see how much EU beurotwats like pushing the bear

I agree with what you are saying. I think officials on both sides are eyeing Ukraine as some sort of strategic element. That's why this is so important.

Pushing them all the time will surely result in Russia biting us at some point. Look how we pushed the germans in the early twentieth century, forcing them into reparations, taking their lands off them, crippling their economy, some German was always going to push back against the west and take back what was theirs. This time the pushed has nukes and all sorts of nasties, it's pure madness to do the same with Russia.

a reply to: lostbook

a reply to: Shana91aus
We are doing just fine. Got work to do but it's ok over here. Debt is just a tool. Can print more. Really that's how it works. We have all the resources we need. Some of best weather and farmlands on Earth. U could cut us off from world and come back in 10 years and we would be even better off. It's true.

Stocks are breaking records, unemployment lowest in 15 years. No one starving. People taking vacations. Sure some are in tough spot but not desperate. Only losers, quilters or just stupid are really suffering here.

It's important to condition the masses for a the planned global nuclear war, to wipe out all the unruly peasants of course. If the masses of all nations simply kicked out all their leaders, and united under one banner, there would be no wars.

a reply to: ressiv
This would end big oil. EU would fast track toward alternatives. I hope Putin does this

a reply to: ufoorbhunter
It's even more madness for Russia to consider ending humanity as an option rather than getting in line with the world. Sink or swim but don't end us all cause that is what happens in a nuclear exchange of Russia and the west. We all die.

If Russia starts a world war and the USA is the main enemy, many of us in the United States would no longer be around to speculate after the first strikes anyways. Allies of ours in major cities or high-population areas around the globe would be joining us for a spirit party in Sheol anyways.

Even though M.A.D. isn't as relevant now as it was in the Cold War, it's still a very valid principle and would be proven so.

I don't think anything that's going on currently militarily, politically, or economically is serious enough in the minds of the leaders in question (specifically Vladimir Putin) to warrant a war between NATO and Russia.

It sure seems scary though; "Russian nuclear bombers to patrol the Gulf of Mexico", "Russian warplanes intercepted off of the coast of Alaska", etc.

As others have already said in this thread, it's political posturing. If you were the leader of "big and bad' Russia while the 'western world' was increasingly tightening a vice grip on your nation's economy, how would you be acting?

originally posted by: Xeven
These are the final death throes of the Soviet Union. Putin is desperate now, all he has left is weapons and threats. He has no other cards to play. I hope he is sane enough to not cause the end of humanity in attempt to save face.

He can't stand it that nearly all major powers are doing fine except his. EU, China, US. All fine. Actually he probably killed Russia chance at becoming an economic power.

THIS.......................

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
Pushing them all the time will surely result in Russia biting us at some point. Look how we pushed the germans in the early twentieth century, forcing them into reparations, taking their lands off them, crippling their economy, some German was always going to push back against the west and take back what was theirs. This time the pushed has nukes and all sorts of nasties, it's pure madness to do the same with Russia.

a reply to: lostbook

Agreed. I really do not fault Russia's response. We keep encroaching on their personal space. Of course they are getting uncomfortable. They value their independence, sovereignty, and influence as much as we do, and we sure as hell would not sit quietly if Russia was building massive military and missile bases In Canada, Mexico, or the Carribean. In fact, we almost started World War III when they tried to put a couple missiles down in Cuba. So why would we expect Russia to do nothing while we keep aiming new guns to it's head? They have been pretty reasonable, given they havent bothered countries in the traditional Cold War boundaries of Europe, which is still uncomfortably close to them. We are the ones who are making all the threatening moves, and Russia is simply not going to be corned into being anyone's b*tch.

a reply to: pheonix358

There are two warships, not four. There are four ships but one is a supply ship and one is a tug boat.

What was the good reason for this expensive trip of warships all the way to Australia? Stupid waste of money and resources which could have been used for many domestic causes.

Putin got a strong rebuke and tough tone from West at G20 anyways. Now he is leaving early.

BRISBANE Australia (Reuters) - Western leaders warned Vladimir Putin at a G20 summit on Saturday that he risked more economic sanctions if he failed to end Russian backing for separatist rebels in Ukraine.

news.yahoo.com...

Putin should not have gone there to begin with after rude talking by Aussie "jackass" Abott. You do not go to such an host and make sure your friends also follow your line.

These things Putins does with all the threats is desperate attempt for Russia to be seen as strong. Russia's economy has tanked and whan I say tanked we are talking something that would make the last recession in the US look like the goods times. The Ruble is worthless, inflation is quickly rising, Russia credit is just above junk status, and it losing its biggets arms market in India and Vietnam. All Russia really has is arms and oil. It has been squeezed out of many of its arms markets by China and the West for failing to make deliveries, always being late and sending non working junk. And oil prices are much to low for Russia and still dropping. Now normally a nation in this bad of shape could count on taking out loans to survive. Santions have ruined that chance. So what you seen now is Russia working on nationalising some more of its companies as a short term solution.

Putin knows Russia's militarty is vastly out numbered and out classed by the West. Any direct miltary confrontation would be a disaster for him. So he is doing what North Korea does. Pushing just up to that line so he gets attention but, no beyond it to get destroyed. This is going to be how things are for awhile.