In Pursuit Of Genuine Spirituality

a reply to: tetra50

Thanks again Tetra. My Faith is strong, in fact I love interacting with people here because I feel that's true of all of us. The weak ones are the ones trying to blend into the crowd, to even show up at a place like this takes a certain strength of soul, a certain searching. A certain faith in truth. I will take your currently expressed wisdom into account regarding exercise as well. Life is good and beautiful, I feel we need to learn to trust that, and to be able to trust each other. Thanks again for sharing a bit of who you truly are.

me

a reply to: TheJourney

But it is, nevertheless, the way forward my friend.

ALL it takes is a careful conscious analysis of the current world to come to understand that it is TRULY INSANE. Once we realize that, than all the games of sanity becomes revealed as insane, and the human spirit's yearning for authenticity in terms of real experiences become clear. Was it in this thread I was ranting about Icke and Jones? I hope so. The point is that our hearts are so yearning for reality at this point that we will give just about anything when we see it in any place at this point. We have to be willing to take the punches, to take the degradation, that comes from being real, authentic people - because that's what the soul of the world is yearning for at this point. Its a weird time in history - being on the right side is one of the mad men. Don't fear it.

a reply to: TheJourney

I warn you of simply opening up your mind to receiving any spiritual enlightenment. By opening your mind to suggestion, opens all spiritual doors which can lead to a good revelation or a negative one. Opening your mind is you giving permission to anything in the spiritual world open for communication. If that is what you are seeking, you will find it but I warn you that you might not like what walks into your life and it might decide to hang around longer than you like.

You can find spiritual enlightenment in prayer and fasting.

originally posted by: TheProphetMark
a reply to: TheJourney

Well if you didn't have any answers, what was the point of your thread?

Are threads only for people who have answers? Well then I should think threads should be much more rare...it's surprising to me that, according to you, saying that I am seeking spirituality but do not have answers is egotistical. But making a thread in which I claim to have all of the answers, and everyone should learn from me and believe what I believe, would be a preferable alternative. Seems to be clearly contradictory. Not to mention, how could coming into someone's thread who is claiming to not have any answers, but hoping to find some general answers, and calling him egotistical and of satan, not be far more egostical than the thread itself...

Socrates said his wisdom lied in his very own not-knowing...but I guess he should have just shut the hell up, since he wasn't trying to give answers.

I have found that a huge source of ego, is in trying to sound spiritual, being careful to say things in a way that would be approved of by the spiritual community with which you speak.

originally posted by: DeathSlayer
a reply to: TheJourney

I warn you of simply opening up your mind to receiving any spiritual enlightenment. By opening your mind to suggestion, opens all spiritual doors which can lead to a good revelation or a negative one. Opening your mind is you giving permission to anything in the spiritual world open for communication. If that is what you are seeking, you will find it but I warn you that you might not like what walks into your life and it might decide to hang around longer than you like.

You can find spiritual enlightenment in prayer and fasting.

I do tend to be open to searching anywhere and everywhere. I believe that I have a good intuition. And I also believe that truth can be found, at least in part, in many if not all systems. But this also totally relates to what I describe in OP, which I paint in a not-exactly-positive light. So yea.

Also, in times when I have felt this longing for genuine spirituality, I have prayed...I feel, whatever the spiritual reality is, I am intimately connected to it...and so how could I be more genuine that just honestly trying to commune with this...and I just pray for guidance towards the genuine spirituality I seek.

originally posted by: tetra50
a reply to: TheJourney

There is a certain 'fear,' that I could really just be wasting a significant portion of my life in pursuit of what is really non-existent and meaningless.

OP, don't let the enforced narratives we live under get you down with that. Certainly I know how you feel. Most people here probably do….

It's hard, very hard, especially as you get older, to keep the faith in such, but very, very important. Keep putting good things out there, being the best person you can be, and what you seek will somehow come back to you. I strongly believe that.

Yes. I've thought, whatever the spiritual realty is, it is always with me...and so sincere searching cannot be a bad thing, whether where I am searching is the right place or not...if I am genuinely seeking, 'it' is with me regardless of where I am searching.

originally posted by: Aphorism
a reply to: TheJourney

I was in the same boat, friend. I concluded a little differently, however. I find that there is no genuine spirituality unless it is one's own. This conclusion is bolstered by the fact that when I read or practice a spiritual system, it is not mine. It is something someone else came up with, a perspective from their perspective, populated by their thoughts, their words, their actions, their path. Genuine is an important term here, as genuine implies one of a kind, original, the actual.

I have travelled the world extensively and took extra care to examine the spiritualities of the peoples I came across. It was the horse and camel herders of the Gobi dessert who I found to have the strongest and most honest spirituality, philosophy or whatever you want to call it, simply by interacting with them and observing the overall happy disposition of them and their families. In short, it was health that was their main spiritual concern, and they had it. It wasn't thanks to any particular system that they arrived at these spiritual conclusions, but through their relationships to everything around them.

Sooner or later, we have to stop searching, and begin creating our spiritualities.

This is something I frequently feel as well. Really I have to define my own spirituality. And what could be more genuine than that? But still, I cannot help but look for inspiration...and I just have not gotten to a point of feeling comfortable with ANY spiritual ideology...all I can do is try to be as genuine with myself as possible, and allow my mind to determine what is genuinely spiritual for itself. You certainly can't be bound by an external standard, if this is what you seek.

a reply to: TheJourney

Just because some may find this belief thing easy and seems to fit them nicely doesn't mean it is for all of us.

a reply to: TheJourney

You summed much of my own thoughts about it in your post, where I kind of understand your thoughts about a certain void between the lucidity of a one track mindset and the serious, discriminating ruggedness of reality. I wouldn't know what a genuine spirituality would be considered as where in todays common view, it seem to be control, power, or even guide over others morale, or devotion for that matter. Or would it be power over oneself more or less, which is where eastern spirituality and philosophy shine.

Esoterics are great because they can be left in plain sight, and usually have a generalized meaning, like an eye.

The best line I could give and have experienced, is don't raise the expectations too high where it could lead to disappointment or even too much excitement, if your the hyper type like moi.

a reply to: TheJourney

I have found that a huge source of ego, is in trying to sound spiritual, being careful to say things in a way that would be approved of by the spiritual community with which you speak.

You're projecting yourself onto me. I said nothing of spiritual matters in this thread. You just made your first mistake.

I'm not attacking you Brother. In fact, I do want you to find what you're looking for and I hope you do.

Matthew 5:6.
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness for they will be filled.

You're not being filled because you're not looking in the right place.

I don't think true spirituality can be obtained from books or logic, it must be experienced. And once that mindset is experienced some schools teach to sweep the floor, not force it, but let it grow on its own accord.

I quote the OP:

" I was passionate about this idea, which while it still resonates with me in ways, that passion isn't there in the same way. And yet it certainly relates to this 'state of limbo' I have been in, because I have studied and tried to get into the mindset of various spiritual and philosophic systems, ways of thinking and being, and have felt a definite detachment to all of them. I have basically tried to trick myself into taking them seriously, because of my belief that there IS an actuality to 'spirituality.' But really I float between ideologies easily, because I am really detached from them all."

Methinks you think too much. Studying is fine and necessary. But until you practise what you've learned consistantly regardless of how you feel about it; you will never experience spiritual growth. That is what I've learned from a lifetime of 'searching'.

You don't mention which 'eastern' schools you have studied, but from my 'seeking' they all have definite private and public practises that are required to advance. Western spiritual traditions do as well but don't expect 'lay' people to follow any real discipline in practise through that is changing.

Until you start practising spiritual principles, such as patience, tolerance, compassion, generosity and such, in your day to day life at work, with family, friends and enemies you will not 'feel it'. It's a subtle thing - very ordinary really. It starts with outward behavoir, then speech and then you tame the mind - so that all three agree.

It may take you a long while of 'knowing' without experience but another spiritual virtue is enthusiasm for the path.

Bon voyage.

a reply to: TheJourney

Op,

I would be the last to say I have the answers to much of anything, but I never stop questioning and searching. I guess a lot of us do that. I don't pretend to know what you have studied and what you have not. Apparently you have searched quite a few paths.

Anyway, I might suggest that you look into C.C. Zain's courses offered through the Church of Light (churchoflight.org). They are quite interesting and teach some very solid hermetic and alchemical foundations.

Blessings,

originally posted by: TheJourney

originally posted by: TM62
TY so much for sharing your journey thus far. It sounds like we have had similar paths I could have written verbatim what you wrote. Minus your experiences in life. Is this just a point some people reach after searching endlessly? I am still searching for spirituality, enlightenment, awareness after nearly thirty years. No Earth shattering changes or life altering experiences. I have improved myself in my own opinion of course. Even if this is all BS I feel better about myself and others. I seem to take away something from every teacher and I consider everyone a teacher definitely.

The idea of 'the dark night of the soul' comes to mind. Perhaps that is what it is, others have said as much. There is a certain 'fear,' that I could really just be wasting a significant portion of my life in pursuit of what is really non-existent and meaningless. But I cannot help but believe, particularly in light of my experiences, though I have not really had much of those types of experiences for some time.

There is always that.

I always remember a story from one of Pema Chodron's books, I can't find the exact quote at the moment though I do think it was in the forward of "Start Where You Are", about taking her grown children, who are not buddists, to see a high lama. She asked the lama for words of wisdom for her children and he told them "You are going to die. The only thing to take with you is your state of mind"

That is pure spirituality. The state of your mind, it's very presence here and now determines your life here and hereafter. Whether you believe in only one life or many, it is the mindset that informs your future.

Hard times, dark nights of the soul are teachers not failure.

From Shantideva's "The Way of the Bodhisattva":

"But all this must be acted out in truth,
For wat is to be gained by mouthing syllables?

What invalid was ever helped
By merely reading in the doctor's treatises?"

Chapter 5, Verse 109

originally posted by: glend
I don't think true spirituality can be obtained from books or logic, it must be experienced. And once that mindset is experienced some schools teach to sweep the floor, not force it, but let it grow on its own accord.

You're not wrong at all. I'm just hoping with all his experiences, he might see things different next time.

a reply to: TheJourney

I feel your confusion TJ. I think this is probably the person you have been looking for.



www.jiddu-krishnamurti.net... s

a reply to: TheProphetMark

I pray he does as well, but who knows, he might be waiting at the gate for us to finish our journey

I'm not sure why your searching for spirituality. You didn't say what you wanted or why you wanted them.surely you have everything you could possibly need in this life? What more could you want? If you don't know what your looking for or what you desire, your just creating a load of problems that didn't exist before your desire for spirituality

a reply to: TheJourney

I seem to go back and forth between trying to get into a particular spiritual mindset, and then eventually come to feel like it's nonsense, pointless, and then try to find something else. There's a certain void there. I cannot deny my experiences, and I cannot deny my belief in the spiritual and my desire for it. But, I just cant find it. Sometimes I feel like, I don't care about the spiritual systems. There is something greater, something spiritual. It is not separate from me, at least entirely. I am at least connected to it. And so I'm almost at a point of saying, I don't know what the real spirituality is. I don't have the answers. But I desire it, whatever it is. And I want to open myself to whatever it is that is genuinely spiritual within myself. And try to find a spirituality which is not fake. Which is not me TRYING to get into some mindset, trying to believe something, and not think contrary things.

True spirituality has no particular 'mindset'. You are seeking a certain way when 'the way' (the tao) is already present as 'this experience'. You cannot deny experience - experience is what there is always - however you want it to be a certain way although you do not know what way you want it to be.
You are seeking some 'thing'. You mention that there is a void there but you don't want the 'void' - you want some 'thing'. Forget seeking for 'things' - notice the 'void' in which all 'things' arise.

You are seeking some 'thing' when 'all there is', is here already - experience is what there is and you are that.

I agree there is not one defined path that any of us must follow. I love the idea of the state of mind at death is most important, yes, be true to who we are, who I am. I can only hope that I will hold true to what I believe when I am backed against a wall or a difficult place. I cannot be taught by another since this experience is very very personal, no two persons will ever experience the same thing. But we are similar, yes yes we are, deep down underneath skin and bones, behind the mind is the awareness, is the soul yearning to feel and experience any and all of it. We do get a choice, but then is it totally free will? I do not know...are we a predetermined being? I have def found some interesting ideas on this concept. Look where you have not searched before even if it seems off or a bit crazy, there is truth in all aspects and I have to remind myself just because I do not agree with something doesn't make it completely wrong or irrelevant. Is this what my soul has agreed to before I showed up in the physical? I want to know what is the soul's purpose? Interesting videos IMO: (If someone can post these vids I would appreciate it TY!)

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...


15-11-2014 by TM62 because: videos not posting properly