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Sexism, Misogyny and the rise and rise and rise of the internet asshole....

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posted on Nov, 20 2014 @ 04:23 AM
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a reply to: HarbingerOfShadows

Here you go. Pretty straightforward. You consistently and repeatedly ignored my statement that the Korean who was ICMP flooding me actually outright stated that he was both doing it and that the reason why was because I was a woman playing a fps game. My existence offended him. I've actually had my ability to be a mother questioned for the same thing by another guy, btw. He said I was a vile aberration of nature.



Maybe it had more to do with you beating him than you being a woman? Nnnnnaaaaahhhhh. There is no such thing as nongendered unsportsmanship. [/sarc]




I'll bet the icmp attacks aren't a first strike move and come after you tell people they need to watch what they say because you're there.


So those two are particularly ignoring all other statements that I made about disliking bullying on the net for anyone and I have been pretty darn consistent in all of my posts on that one. Yet, you consistently focused on my gender.


Let me put what I am hearing from you in my words:
"I am coming into this enviroment and I fully expect the enviroment to adapt to cater to MY delicate sensibilities."


Combine that with the gender focus for a second. What do you see? I see an interpretation that you think I'm whining about how I'm treated and declaring misogyny erroneously when it's just "smack talk" because of "butthurt". Even after I made a post in response stating that I also could very easily make distinctions between "butthurt smacktalk" and well, misogyny and gross sexual harassment.

Here's the final bit:


You seriously and stubbornly have the causality and your rights completely screwed up.


Hmm. Now here's my statement again:



I play video games to play video games. No more, no less. I think you keep confusing me with someone who thinks that treating others decently on the net is something that only women should receive.


You were the one hung up on gender--not me. You were beating the gender aspect, questioning it and more for multiple posts. In fact, I opened up the conversation with you with this statement:



If you look at one of my posts a few up, I don't just dismantle online bullies whom are male. I will just as equally go after those who are female. They are rarer and they do absolutely exist.


So yeah, I interpreted it as you forgetting that I can a. distinguish between smack talk and misogyny, b. do not demand special rights because of my gender, c. were completely ignoring the fact that I am against cyberbullying for all regardless of gender. Between accusations, of course, of my being unable to see anything but my own narrative. You were the one hung up on gender, bro.

Btw, just what the heck is your narrative? Because from what I can tell, you seem really hung up on any woman saying that they've had a run in with a misogynist. To use your own words from another post to me on this thread, misogynists must be a unicorn to you. At least I can admit misandrists exist.

Have a nice day.





edit on 20/11/14 by WhiteAlice because: added last line because surely this is going to get a clipped response that addresses what he wants it to and I'm not playing




posted on Nov, 20 2014 @ 07:37 AM
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Perhaps some of the so called 'online assh****s' are genetically geared to be hyper aggressive, along with their upbringing, culture, life's trauma and other factors (hormones) which may not allow any intellectual self-control, such as in specific online gaming interactions with girls or women (or everyone?). If so, how in the heck do we deal with this?



For example, take Monoamine oxidase A (called the “the warrior gene”). One version of this gene is associated with hyper aggression in males (it is little studied in females). However, expression of this gene is related to childhood stressors and life experience. We see that a slightly larger percentage of men with the “aggressive” version of this gene (compared to those without it), who live through real childhood trauma and social stress are highly violent and have trouble controlling their behavior as adults. But many of those with the “warrior” version of the gene don’t have these problems at all (me, for example). These same kinds of complexities are true for serotonin, testosterone, and the other hormones and neurotransmitters associated with aggression.


www.psychologytoday.com...

I too was subject to insults (such as being called a river whore) when besting males at online poker, but I just put it down to them being immature sore losers, but now that I recollect, their aggression and hate was excessive, in my opinion.

I've always wondered if we humans have natural aggressive tendencies, which our modern society strives to suppress instead of acknowledging that it may be a natural part (to different extents) of our makeup and that we need to research and understand it, so as to find ways to control it.

I also thought that viewing violence (Roman colliseum) would release that negative energy, as in playing violent video games, but it would appear not to be the case.




The theory also predicts that venting aggressive energy should make us less aggressive -- an effect known as “catharsis,” following Aristotle’s idea that we can be purged of unpleasant emotions by watching tragic dramas. But one study after another has shown that we are likely to become more violent after watching or participating in such pastimes. “Engaging in aggressive play just strengthens the disposition to react aggressively,” concludes psychologist Leonard Berkowitz, who is now writing a new book on the subject to complement his classic 1962 work, Aggression: A Social Psychological Analysis.


www.alfiekohn.org...
edit on 20-11-2014 by InTheLight because: (no reason given)

edit on 20-11-2014 by InTheLight because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 20 2014 @ 02:10 PM
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originally posted by: galadofwarthethird
a reply to: SearchLightsInc


You knew the misogynists would descend on this thread in their droves proclaiming their right to mistreat other's based on their gender, i heard the knuckle dragging 30 pages ago.

Well misogynists aside as now doubt you may be right or you may be a bit exaggerating.

But considering your response is on page 22 and this thread so far is only up to page 24 so far. I do believe you may be exaggerating a bit there on the whole misogynists knuckle dragging from 30 pages ago. That is unless you somehow got a time machine and went into the future to when we get to page 30 and over, then came back in time to inform us poor page 24ers of all the knuckle dragging going on.

If you can no doubt tell. I call shenanigans on your whole 30 pages of misogynistic knuckle dragging thing, I would say that it is at least only 5 or so real such pages were you could say it was that, but hey I skipped a few pages of this thread. That and I dont have time machine, so you could be right.


As soon as i saw this thread i knew exactly what type of poster's would be frequenting this thread, i click in and my women's intuition is proven correct, as always. People defending their right to abuse people based souly on gender.

Reading through some of the replies here im actually rolling around laughing at the stupidity of some poster's who see absolutely no problem with giving abuse at all over the internet for whatever reason.

All i can say is, if you or anyone is trying to down-talk someone over a game then you or they must have very low self esteem issues. And with that in mind, we know its always the guys with self esteem issue's that bully people weaker than them, in this game, giving # to female gamers purely because they are female.

Human's, if there is a god, we must keep them well entertained.



posted on Nov, 20 2014 @ 02:39 PM
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a reply to: WhiteAlice

Here you go. Pretty straightforward. You consistently and repeatedly ignored my statement that the Korean who was ICMP flooding me actually outright stated that he was both doing it and that the reason why was because I was a woman playing a fps game. My existence offended him. I've actually had my ability to be a mother questioned for the same thing by another guy, btw. He said I was a vile aberration of nature.


Because he was getting beat by you perhaps?
Like I was saying earlier about angles of attack?
If it was a male beating him he'd probably be going on and on about how the person beating him was a homosexual or whatever.
Some people don't like to lose.

And consistently and repeatedly?
You only revealed the full details on this incident on page 30.
Despite first talking about it a few pages back.
I cannot address details I don't know.
I am not in any sense psychic, sorry.

This would an example of what I have been talking about.


So those two are particularly ignoring all other statements that I made about disliking bullying on the net for anyone and I have been pretty darn consistent in all of my posts on that one. Yet, you consistently focused on my gender.


Nice non sequitur on that first part.
You've repeatedly said you're trolled because you're a woman.
To which I have been responding "You ever think it's less about your gender and more about your gender as an angle of attack?".


Combine that with the gender focus for a second. What do you see? I see an interpretation that you think I'm whining about how I'm treated and declaring misogyny erroneously when it's just "smack talk" because of "butthurt". Even after I made a post in response stating that I also could very easily make distinctions between "butthurt smacktalk" and well, misogyny and gross sexual harassment.


You obviously can't.
You're the one who keeps making your gender an issue here.
Not me.


Hmm. Now here's my statement again:
I play video games to play video games. No more, no less. I think you keep confusing me with someone who thinks that treating others decently on the net is something that only women should receive.


One newer comment in a larger swath of posts.......
Read some of your older comments.


So yeah, I interpreted it as you forgetting that I can a. distinguish between smack talk and misogyny, b. do not demand special rights because of my gender, c. were completely ignoring the fact that I am against cyberbullying for all regardless of gender. Between accusations, of course, of my being unable to see anything but my own narrative. You were the one hung up on gender, bro.


Misinterpreted you mean.
Funny that in the next paragraph you go and make gender issues front and center again.
Except in a attempt to redirect what I have said back at me.


Btw, just what the heck is your narrative? Because from what I can tell, you seem really hung up on any woman saying that they've had a run in with a misogynist. To use your own words from another post to me on this thread, misogynists must be a unicorn to you. At least I can admit misandrists exist.

Have a nice day.

edit quote: added last line because surely this is going to get a clipped response that addresses what he wants it to and I'm not playing


Buh bye.
Sorry I don't type in paragraphs when I feel a sentence suffices.
Kinda figured you'd do that.
Take it easy.

You didn't prove anything by the way.
edit on 20-11-2014 by HarbingerOfShadows because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 20 2014 @ 02:51 PM
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a reply to: HarbingerOfShadows

This is not directly to HarbingerOfShadows but an observation of once again, my attempting to correct his misinterpretation of my views on cyberbullying and focusing on gender. A broken record never moves forward, ever.



posted on Nov, 20 2014 @ 02:59 PM
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a reply to: WhiteAlice

Can you get any more passive aggressive?
Just out of curiosity.
Doubling down on the accusation doesn't make it true.
Sorry.
edit on 20-11-2014 by HarbingerOfShadows because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 20 2014 @ 04:41 PM
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Hello HarbingerOfShadows..

I think that the point that is trying to be made is the following one:

WA opposes cyberbullying period: bullying against everyone from children to the elderly. Everyone. In addition she opposes men being bullied, and opposes women being bullied on the internet. No one deserves bullying, period.



The thread itself concerns misogyny and it concerns discussion about people who are misogynists on the internet. This naturally requires discussion about women and gender, since women are the object of misogynist attack. It goes without saying then, that people writing and posting comments will be caused to focus on gender and gender related issues.


Does that help clarify things for you..because I'm not sure I'm understanding your complaints here..
edit on 20-11-2014 by tony9802 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 20 2014 @ 05:07 PM
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a reply to: HarbingerOfShadows

Once again HarbingerofShadows..

This is a thread about Misogyny and internet mistreatment and abuse; about bullying and harassment on the internet against women in particular. Men get harassed as well, but this THREAD concerns misogyny- threats directed at and against the female gender, women, in particular.



posted on Nov, 20 2014 @ 05:23 PM
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My impression is that throughout this thread WA has attempted to convey the message that internet bullying happens to everyone, and that the bullying is likewise administered by everyone. That includes large people, thin people, tall people, short people, young people, old people, dark skinned people, fair skinned people, and the list continues on and on, it includes everyone..irrespective of their actual gender. All people receive the bullying and all people administer the bullying.

That's fine.

When she talks about her personal experiences of bullying on the internet, in this case it revolves quite a bit around the Gaming world, and so she proceeds with a few explanations of her experiences..

What is the problem?


edit on 20-11-2014 by tony9802 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 20 2014 @ 06:29 PM
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originally posted by: tony9802
a reply to: nenothtu


It's nice to hear that you are happily married to your wife.. very good, very nice.. Ferguson, in contrast, has to do with the riots that we have recently been hearing about over here near the city of St. Louis Missouri, where a police officer had killed, due to self defense, someone in that area.. that is what I allude to when I speak about Ferguson..



Oh, that Ferguson! Watch your news - it may shortly not be limited to Ferguson any more - there are "protests" being planned for at least 50 cities nation wide last time I checked, so it could go nation-wide. Recommended equipment includes wooden shields, gas masks, and box cutters, according to the coordination website. Sounds like they've got a really peaceful picnic planned, eh? I moved away from Kansas City, MO not long ago to get away from such foolishness, but it seems to have followed me - and would have wherever I went within the US.

THAT Ferguson seems to have no desire to rest in peace.




I am more than thrilled to know that your wife would never tolerate discussions about Jihad militants in your area; She sounds like a very shrewd, healthy wife/mother, trying simply to take care of her family..



yeah, but for all that, she's not someone I'd like to get wound up.




Finally, if the cape and cloak your avatar wears is Confederate, then why the discomfort with British notions of Victorian decency and British respect towards women.. Scarlet O'hara as well, had obtained the right to respect and decency had she not?



Mostly because I'm not British, and so have little to no concept of what your notions of "Victorian decency and respect towards women" entail. It's not a conversation I'm capable of, having no basis in it to draw from. "Victorian" played out a little differently over here in the colonies, I suspect.

The character Scarlett O'Hara owned a plantation, so I expect she would have had a slightly different experience of "respect and decency" during Reconstruction.

The whole city of Atlanta, as well as several other areas like the Shenandoah Valley in Virginia got a crash course in such matters right there at the end of the war. They learned a lot about smoke, ashes, and rapine, but I suspect very little about either decency or respect.

Of course, Women's rights were not the order of the day back then, I guess...




Gosh, let's all just be good..it's just WW3 starting..



Yes, quite! I'm popping popcorn for it. I'll share if you happen by.



posted on Nov, 20 2014 @ 06:31 PM
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originally posted by: tony9802
a reply to: tony9802


If men are unable to respect ladies, how on earth are they able to respect themselves..it's such a terrible contradiction..


There appears to be a difference between "respect" and "obsequiousness".



posted on Nov, 20 2014 @ 06:35 PM
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a reply to: tony9802

Pretty much a perfect summary of what I've been saying. I think that the biggest problem that we have here is cyberbullying in general. When we go ahead and start picking out specific types of cyberbullying based on gender, race, sexuality and etc, all that is basically serving is to be divisive. Essentially, if a woman complains that cyberbullying against women is bad, the response is going to be much like Harbinger's--statements that cyberbullying is just the way the net is, even in cases where the individual happened to be both a cyberbully and a misogynist. It also is saying that one group should have the issue be treated with differently and that isn't right either as it ignores the same issues that happen with other groups. I've been harassed by women in games, too. I had this one girl that was over the top mic spamming obscenities at me for minutes non-stop because I told her to lay off a kid. She was kind of nuts. It's not a gender specific thing at all in that sense though, at times, it can be gender specific. However, those are just the "flavors" to it really.

The way I see it is I'd rather see the entirety of cyberbullying be examined and acted against as opposed to have it compartmentalized by groupings. Once you compartmentalize something, you're guaranteeing opposition from another group. That's not going to change anything imho.

Thanks, Tony.



posted on Nov, 20 2014 @ 07:31 PM
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originally posted by: Bluesma

originally posted by: nenothtu


I don't automatically give any man respect, either. He's got to earn it, whether president or janitor. I'm not going to respect anyone just because they were born with a pair of testicles - are you saying I should automatically respect them just because they weren't?

Where's the "equality" in that?


It is really interesting watching the dialogue between you and tony, both coming from such a different perspective, both of you feel that what you are pointing out is painstakingly obvious, yet miles away from understanding each other!



I strongly suspect that the ways in which Tony and actually I treat the women in our respective worlds is not so very different. Our rationales for doing so, and the worldviews those spring from, probably ARE radically different. Whether that is a cultural difference or not, I can't say.




The term "equality" is almost always heard and used by men to mean "same" or identical, in quality.
It can also be used to express different in quality, but same in value... but lets focus on the first interpretation.



I mean it as equal in value, most certainly not equal in quality. Women have qualities far surpassing men, and some that are far below men, but that does not affect value when life is a cooperative venture. In other words, they can do things I can never hope to, but at the same time I don't think that makes me obsolete. The interplay of the qualities is complementary, not exclusionary - if done right. That would tend to promote an equity of value in that one does not do as well alone as it would do WITH the other.




Between men focused on developing their masculine qualities of aggressivity, independance, competition, dominance, all vulnerabilities, receptivity, sensitivity, is suppressed and hidden. Those are "weak spots" that the other shall target, as part of destroying confidence in their adversary.



True enough. I don't just "suppress" those qualities in myself when I see them, I ruthlessly extirpate them, for that very reason. Paradoxically, perhaps, I also view "aggression" as a weakness - it can lead to one losing one's head, and that can, in turn, lead to one losing one's head in a very literal sense.




When you spend a large part of your time in this sort of interaction, you can almost forget and lose touch with those parts of yourself and forget you have them at all. You can't respect what you don't acknowledge you have- and you certainly can't respect them in others if you treat others as "equals" (in the sense of "same as me).



Not so. I can respect anyone, and more so for things that I DON'T have, and never will. It's true though, that I don't treat people as equals in the sense of "same as" - wouldn't that be a terribly boring world if everyone were the same as me?




Tony seems to be coming from the viewpoint of acknowledging things like vulnerability, openess, compassion are positive qualities to have- in himself and in someone else.

You don't seem to share that view, so can't see how he can suggest that. You are right, in those competative, dominance based interactions with people (be they men or women) there is no place for acknowledging vulnerability. It is not appropriate. It is like boxing, with your hands down- stupid and bound to make you lose. It is not part of the game properly played.



I'm not entirely devoid of something that would pass as "compassion", but the others, yeah, they ain't here. I'm not particularly competitive or dominant - I just have no intention of being subjugated.




But is there no contexts in life in which the game changes? No part of the day, or with people, in which the gloves come off and we grasp hands warmly, acknowledging each is vulnerable, and agreeing not to punch the weak spots?



Not here, but then I don't feel any particular need to "box" with the women in my world, so with them the gloves never go ON. If they were to take a poke or two at me and try to find a vulnerability, that might be different.




In which mutual trust and respect become the name of the game?



If it doesn't start out that way, you've already lost.




Don't get me wrong, I like a good boxing match (either physical or mental) from time to time, and see value in it too!
I am just saying, if one only does that all the time, how can they develop the tenderness and compassion needed for relationships such as parent, caretaker (of young, elderly, handicapped, injured...), brother, son, grandson, nephew, friend...?



I think it's all in the approach. For males, an approach from a position of "strength" allows one the luxury of compassion. Assail that position, try to remove it from them, and all compassion goes right out the window behind it. We don't have that luxury any more, because we are then "under attack".

Women approach it differently - or used to.




On a related note, since aggressive play has been largely repressed from schools and social life, it seems expected that working on those qualities will turn to whatever other context they can be expressed- which turns out to be internet and gaming. We won't rid ourselves of the desire to wrangle this way, it just finds another outlet.



On that I agree. Remove one outlet for aggressions, and the pressure will just build until they find another exit.





edit on 2014/11/20 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 20 2014 @ 07:45 PM
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originally posted by: SearchLightsInc

As soon as i saw this thread i knew exactly what type of poster's would be frequenting this thread, i click in and my women's intuition is proven correct, as always. People defending their right to abuse people based souly on gender.



I'm going to need some clarification here - which gender are you seeing abuse in this thread based solely upon? As luck would have it, I happen to agree with you - but I'm betting it's not for the same precise reasons.




Reading through some of the replies here im actually rolling around laughing at the stupidity of some poster's who see absolutely no problem with giving abuse at all over the internet for whatever reason.



No, not "whatever reason" - you've already staked your claim for the reason - solely on gender.




... its always the guys with self esteem issue's that bully people weaker than them, in this game, giving # to female gamers purely because they are female.



Ah. I see. thanks for clearing that up for me.

Now, personally I don't play these games - I've not played any computer games since about 1986 or so, when a Tandy 1000EX was about the most powerful machine going for the home market, and the www was just a gleam in someone's eye. It was only later in the thread that it dawned upon me that all this was sparked over a game.



posted on Nov, 20 2014 @ 07:53 PM
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originally posted by: tony9802

This is a thread about Misogyny and internet mistreatment and abuse; about bullying and harassment on the internet against women in particular. Men get harassed as well, but this THREAD concerns misogyny- threats directed at and against the female gender, women, in particular.



Thank you.

Thank you for clarifying that for me. I'll bow out of the thread again, then, as I no longer have a basis for discussion. I have had people try to bully me, but I've never had anyone try to bully me as a woman, so I have no basis of comparison.

Toodles, then.



posted on Nov, 21 2014 @ 12:23 AM
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The stance that bullying should not be allowed or practiced at all (anywhere, towards anyone).... I think I am going to voice an opinion that might be rather ill received here.

Just as I will go on and on about masculine and feminine qualities in all of us, and all of our rights to develop both in activities which facilitate that.... I can't help but point out what some already have as essential here-
This kind of opposition is typical masculine- building exercise. Males get into competative play, and part of the game is to knock down the confidence of your adversary with verbal insults.

It is part of the building of emotional independance and ego. The assults provoke one to build their "walls" stronger and higher.

So this is a great time- girls and women can join in the arenas in which males are doing this, and develop their own masculine qualities with them!
Men can go into arenas in which women were traditionally using exchange to integrate ideas and concepts, forming moral and ethical framework for the young, and developing things like receptivity, consideration of other, how to merge opposing ideas, things and people into solutions which are intermediate compromises (win-win, not win-lose).

Gaming seems to be one of those activities where masculine sort of competition is done, and people work on hardening their emotional distance from others. I would think women or girls that go there would expect that- and that if they are sensitive about being female, that is the weak spot that will be targetted.

On the other hand, on things like discussion forums, I like when it is well defined- this forum is for discussion which is peaceful and creative exchange.... this other one is for debate and aggressivity.

So that individuals (be they male or female-) can choose according to what they wish to focus on and develop.

Misogyny, misandry, racism, all that is going to be found wherever insults and verbal bombing is part of the game.
The concern about people being able to identify with their "weapons" (starting to become anchored in the sexist or racist ideas even outside the context) is why traditionally, women were kept out of those arenas, and people of different ethnic backgrounds kept their games separate.



posted on Nov, 21 2014 @ 03:00 AM
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Double post O.O
edit on 21-11-2014 by SearchLightsInc because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 21 2014 @ 03:01 AM
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originally posted by: nenothtu


I didn't come into this thread to make out like ONLY women are victims, but i am agreeing with the OP that women will often receive abuse on the internet just because they are women. Not just on games, although games can be a big part of it.

A lot of women wont take anyone else's abuse and rightfully tell the idiot on the other line to STFU - But more to a point, i believe we are discussing if it appropriate to be abusing PEOPLE over the internet in the first place? Not just the female sex.

From being on this site 3+ year's ive learned not to get into a heated debate and reduce myself to personal attacks, not only because of the T&C's but also because it is utterly pointless. When someone tries to make a personal remark at me, i laugh it off.

Most people suffer abuse on the internet, but in actual fact, you can suffer abuse on a comment's section, game's and message board's just for being female.

Im sure to some that comment will make me seem like a raging Feminazi (whatever that is) But the fact's speak for themselves. Will anything be done? No lol The facts still remain!



posted on Nov, 21 2014 @ 06:21 AM
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a reply to: tony9802

Well, if you read what I have said.
Maybe you'd understand.

But, gotta white knight hm?

She made her gender an issue.
Doesn't matter what this thread is about and neither of you have touched what I have actually said.

a reply to: tony9802

Really? o.O
This was warranted why?


edit on 21-11-2014 by HarbingerOfShadows because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 21 2014 @ 06:15 PM
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a reply to: HarbingerOfShadows

The most obvious position for men to take on cyber bullying against women, is to defend women. It's just kind of scary to think that some individuals would believe that bullying her is acceptable and tolerable. that does not mean you cannot disagree with her, by the way. But, I do believe that is what the original poster, neformore originally had in mind, and to his surprise, there were many persons here writing, that did not have a problem with blatant bullying. It's distasteful, and it's a sign of a society moving in a bad direction..


Otherwise, if I have made any comments that were somehow inappropriate, then I do apologize..








edit on 21-11-2014 by tony9802 because: typo



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