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Sexism, Misogyny and the rise and rise and rise of the internet asshole....

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posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 11:52 AM
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originally posted by: Maslo

originally posted by: neformore
So why aren't these assholes rounded on/drowned out/stepped on? Why aren't the nomal guys - the decent ones - the thinkers, the responsible ones, why aren't we reporting this in droves? Why aren't we acting like a society should do?
 



Because the problem is less acute than you are trying to paint it. Controversial figures recieve abuse regardless of gender, this is just due to the nature of the internet, with anonymity, trolling culture and very low effort to post required. Women do recieve sexist abuse on the internet but it is not a common thing, except maybe on certain sites that can be easily avoided or when they are in the center of some controversy.


You're seriously misguided there if you think that it is "less acute" than what Nefermore is trying to paint it. One doesn't have to be the center of some controversy to receive rape threats and more. One just has to simply exist and be a female. The video below is actually not an uncommon experience for women. I've had this happen so many times in my 15 years of online gaming that I've lost count. This IS reality.

**LANGUAGE WARNING**



Also, freedom of speech. Only specific threaths where there is a reason to believe they will be carried out can be legally punished. This doesnt apply to vast majority of online abuse (but it could apply to the most egregious examples, tough).


Does freedom of speech apply to what is occurring in that video? I mean, they don't even know who that player is so obviously the odds of them hunting her down and making good on those threats is unlikely. I guess, under your purview, what they're saying is totally okay.




posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 11:57 AM
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originally posted by: neformore
I'm kinda stunned.

I thought people who posted on here could understand the premise of what I've been trying to say.

Obviously i've been mistaken.

Calling for respect is not censorship. Nor is it aiding a feminist cause.

Expecting people to be able to behave in a civilised manner, and criticising them when they do not is the basis of a modern society where people are treated equally.

Defending people who threaten to rape because of "freedom of speech" is heinous.

Trying to blame women for men threatening to rape them is despicable.

Suggesting that feminism is the cause of men threatening to rape is dangerous and downright stupid.


What thread have you been reading? I don't see anyone defending threats of rape.

What I do see is people ripping apart your OP that the Daily Mail would be proud of.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 12:09 PM
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originally posted by: SensiblyReckless

originally posted by: neformore


What thread have you been reading? I don't see anyone defending threats of rape.


There are a number of people throughout this thread who have stated that due to freedom of speech, that all have the right to make any and all comments against any and all people; Freedom of speech therefore in their minds, would include any and all verbal comments and/or even clear threats of violence (sexual violence) against women printed visibly on the net..There are about 21 pages worth of material to read through my friend, you simply have to read each and every page, to arrive to the same conclusion as neformore. I believe he has arrived appropriately to a correct conclusion.

It won't be that difficult once you read the comments, especially those stating internet use precludes freedom of speech thereby making all comments and statements for, towards, against, women, injurious or not, acceptable. This will include comments that are violent, and sexually offensive in nature. Read all the pages..
edit on 16-11-2014 by tony9802 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 12:35 PM
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originally posted by: SensiblyReckless

originally posted by: neformore
I'm kinda stunned.

I thought people who posted on here could understand the premise of what I've been trying to say.

Obviously i've been mistaken.

Calling for respect is not censorship. Nor is it aiding a feminist cause.

Expecting people to be able to behave in a civilised manner, and criticising them when they do not is the basis of a modern society where people are treated equally.

Defending people who threaten to rape because of "freedom of speech" is heinous.

Trying to blame women for men threatening to rape them is despicable.

Suggesting that feminism is the cause of men threatening to rape is dangerous and downright stupid.


What thread have you been reading? I don't see anyone defending threats of rape.

What I do see is people ripping apart your OP that the Daily Mail would be proud of.


Dont be giving the Daily Fail any credit here, you know they couldnt put half as much thought into the OP as the original poster did.

You knew the misogynists would descend on this thread in their droves proclaiming their right to mistreat other's based on their gender, i heard the knuckle dragging 30 pages ago.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 12:35 PM
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originally posted by: tony9802

originally posted by: SensiblyReckless

originally posted by: neformore


What thread have you been reading? I don't see anyone defending threats of rape.


There are a number of people throughout this thread who have stated that due to freedom of speech, that all have the right to make any and all comments against any and all people; Freedom of speech therefore in their minds, would include any and all verbal comments and/or even clear threats of violence (sexual violence) against women printed visibly on the net..There are about 21 pages worth of material to read through my friend, you simply have to read each and every page, to arrive to the same conclusion as neformore. I believe he has arrived appropriately to a correct conclusion.

It won't be that difficult once you read the comments, especially those stating internet use precludes freedom of speech thereby making all comments and statements for, towards, against, women, injurious or not, acceptable. This will include comments that are violent, and sexually offensive in nature. Read all the pages..


I doesn't matter how many comments I read, I won't arrive at the same conclusion, because I'm not prone to get hysterical about something that is easily fixed by simply walking away from it.

You're offended by the content of a website? Don't browse it then.

You're being threatened by someone on social media? Block and report them.

It's not rocket science.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 12:46 PM
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originally posted by: SensiblyReckless

originally posted by: tony9802

originally posted by: SensiblyReckless

originally posted by: neformore


What thread have you been reading? I don't see anyone defending threats of rape.


There are a number of people throughout this thread who have stated that due to freedom of speech, that all have the right to make any and all comments against any and all people; Freedom of speech therefore in their minds, would include any and all verbal comments and/or even clear threats of violence (sexual violence) against women printed visibly on the net..There are about 21 pages worth of material to read through my friend, you simply have to read each and every page, to arrive to the same conclusion as neformore. I believe he has arrived appropriately to a correct conclusion.

It won't be that difficult once you read the comments, especially those stating internet use precludes freedom of speech thereby making all comments and statements for, towards, against, women, injurious or not, acceptable. This will include comments that are violent, and sexually offensive in nature. Read all the pages..


It doesn't matter how many comments I read, I won't arrive at the same conclusion, because I'm not prone to get hysterical about something that is easily fixed by simply walking away from it.



It is the principle, and I repeat, the principle of the matter that is important here. Everyone can walk away and act as though this problem does not exist.. but the fact is that this type of verbal abuse IS there. The principle of the matter then, is what is being discussed here, within a set of approximately 30 pages.. The topic has reached #1 position for a reason.. it's an important topic that normally most people would prefer to overlook and simply ignore.

You use the word hysteria.. I don't believe anyone is being hysterical here on Ats.. people are just expressing their opinions..
edit on 16-11-2014 by tony9802 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 01:01 PM
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originally posted by: tony9802

originally posted by: SensiblyReckless

originally posted by: tony9802

originally posted by: SensiblyReckless

originally posted by: neformore


What thread have you been reading? I don't see anyone defending threats of rape.


There are a number of people throughout this thread who have stated that due to freedom of speech, that all have the right to make any and all comments against any and all people; Freedom of speech therefore in their minds, would include any and all verbal comments and/or even clear threats of violence (sexual violence) against women printed visibly on the net..There are about 21 pages worth of material to read through my friend, you simply have to read each and every page, to arrive to the same conclusion as neformore. I believe he has arrived appropriately to a correct conclusion.

It won't be that difficult once you read the comments, especially those stating internet use precludes freedom of speech thereby making all comments and statements for, towards, against, women, injurious or not, acceptable. This will include comments that are violent, and sexually offensive in nature. Read all the pages..


It doesn't matter how many comments I read, I won't arrive at the same conclusion, because I'm not prone to get hysterical about something that is easily fixed by simply walking away from it.



It is the principle, I repeat, the the principle of the matter that is important here. Everyone can walk away and act as though it isn't there.. but the fact is that this type of verbal abuse IS there. The principle of the matter then, is what is being discussed here, within a set of approximately 30 pages.. The topic has reached #1 position for a reason.. it's an important topic that normally most people would prefer to overlook and simply ignore.


Guess what?

There's assholes in real life as well and the massive difference is they can, and do, physically hurt and kill people. Isn't that a much more important issue?

The OP chose to single out women and portray them as helpless, delicate people who need protecting from online assholes. It's the type of hysteria I'd expect to read in the tabloid press.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 01:21 PM
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a reply to: SensiblyReckless

There you go using the word hysteria once again.. I think the OP is simply illustrating that modern day society, has lost touch with proper, decent mannerism that would permit individuals to properly behave towards women, online or off.


Society apparently is moving in a direction where verbal sexual abuse is acceptable and something to simply tolerate..
Eventually this behavior becomes embedded in society, and soon enough instead of these types of threats simply existing on the internet, the verbal affronts are everywhere on the street, in public, commonplace, and nothing to worry about..

The prevalence of this type of conduct, and indifference towards it is reprehensible.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 01:24 PM
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originally posted by: tony9802

originally posted by: wmd_2008
a reply to: neformore

Not all ladies are lady like and if I have an encounter on the net or face to face with that type they get back what they dish out!


So ladies are supposed to maintain lady like composure when confronted with abusive, irresponsible text and comment?



I don't really give a flying .... you know what about what anybody says to me on the net or in person maybe it's because I was brought up not to listen or care about name calling etc it's water off a ducks back to me, all I stated was what ever I receive I will quite happily return!!!
edit on 16-11-2014 by wmd_2008 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 01:33 PM
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originally posted by: SensiblyReckless

originally posted by: tony9802

originally posted by: SensiblyReckless

originally posted by: tony9802

originally posted by: SensiblyReckless

originally posted by: neformore


What thread have you been reading? I don't see anyone defending threats of rape.


There are a number of people throughout this thread who have stated that due to freedom of speech, that all have the right to make any and all comments against any and all people; Freedom of speech therefore in their minds, would include any and all verbal comments and/or even clear threats of violence (sexual violence) against women printed visibly on the net..There are about 21 pages worth of material to read through my friend, you simply have to read each and every page, to arrive to the same conclusion as neformore. I believe he has arrived appropriately to a correct conclusion.

It won't be that difficult once you read the comments, especially those stating internet use precludes freedom of speech thereby making all comments and statements for, towards, against, women, injurious or not, acceptable. This will include comments that are violent, and sexually offensive in nature. Read all the pages..


It doesn't matter how many comments I read, I won't arrive at the same conclusion, because I'm not prone to get hysterical about something that is easily fixed by simply walking away from it.



It is the principle, I repeat, the the principle of the matter that is important here. Everyone can walk away and act as though it isn't there.. but the fact is that this type of verbal abuse IS there. The principle of the matter then, is what is being discussed here, within a set of approximately 30 pages.. The topic has reached #1 position for a reason.. it's an important topic that normally most people would prefer to overlook and simply ignore.


Guess what?

There's assholes in real life as well and the massive difference is they can, and do, physically hurt and kill people. Isn't that a much more important issue?

The OP chose to single out women and portray them as helpless, delicate people who need protecting from online assholes. It's the type of hysteria I'd expect to read in the tabloid press.


Would it be a more important issue if put against the reality of our situation in that a very high number of kids are online a great deal of time and experience this as being "the way things are"? Would it make a difference to tell you that in some venues, the attitudes are so entrenched that children in the fullest sense of the word, are participants in it? I've had a 12 year old boy make sounds like he was masturbating to me over a game not one month ago. A 12 year old boy who sounded as if he hadn't even yet hit puberty. The response to that was mixed. Some found it, like me, totally revolting. Others lauded the kid.

Ignoring it and "walking away" perpetuates and institutionalizes any problem and that is precisely what has been occurring over the last 15 years of my time on the internet. What does that do for society? Yes, those assholes on the street are a very real problem but so is this as for many kids, the internet is precisely where they are forming their foundational opinions on what is okay and what is not and frequently without the review of a parental observer.

As someone who has been a victim of extreme sexual harassment online, I refuse to walk away from a venue because of a few assholes online--especially those venues that I paid for with my hard earned money. If I plunked down $59.99 for a game and get sexually harassed in it, I am supposed to walk away and just eat the loss of those funds? And isn't "just walking away" simply just a positive reinforcement that says "if you do this to a person you don't like (a woman), they'll leave the game"? Walking away is positive reinforcement.

Now I am not a delicate person who needs protecting. I can do that well enough on my own. However, I'm not going to lie. It's actually really nice to see when other individuals on a server or a forum actually give a crap about what one person is saying to another and speak up against. That isn't "relying on men" to defend me. It's simply being a community that chooses to openly condemn what is generally viewed as atrocious behavior regardless of whether it's online or off. When you have 4-5 people, regardless of gender, saying "that is NOT okay", then that's pretty much social condemnation and we do tend to be geared towards what others think of us. It becomes a social disincentive.

Very simple really and very simple to resolve. Don't walk away because that's what the individual wants (they count it as a victory) and that's positive reinforcement. Not a good idea. Social recrimination for what the individual is doing is a social disincentive. Who gains? Everybody but mostly the next generation because then they'll be learning a better sense of what is right and what is wrong.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 01:51 PM
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a reply to: neformore

as a woman and a longtime forum poster, online gamer, and general internet user i say THANK YOU. this is so very true and although i'm more than capable of handling myself against the vast community of sexist imbeciles running rampant on many of my favorite sites, i find it very disturbing. especially when many of these men have no problem treating a woman online as a piece of trash, degrading them to disgusting lengths, but "irl" have mothers, sisters, aunts, grandmothers, girlfriends, etc. they would never dream of speaking to that way. where is the disconnect? and i know people aren't generally polite to strangers, but the nastiness i used to see against me and other women on sites like godlikeproductions made me leave those sites forever. ats is practically the only forum site i feel comfortable on that contains a majority of male members.
edit on 16-11-2014 by zombiebbq because: spelling



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 02:00 PM
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originally posted by: zombiebbq
a reply to: neformore

as a woman and a longtime forum poster, online gamer, and general internet user i say THANK YOU. this is so very true and although i'm more than capable of handling myself against the vast community of sexist imbeciles running rampant on many of my favorite sites, i find it very disturbing. especially when many of these men have no problem treating a woman online as a piece of trash, degrading them to disgusting lengths, but "irl" have mothers, sisters, aunts, grandmothers, girlfriends, etc. they would never dream of speaking to that way. where is the disconnect? and i know people aren't generally polite to strangers, but the nastiness i used to see against me and other women on sites like godlikeproductions made me leave those sites forever. ats is practically the only forum site i feel comfortable on that contains a majority of male members.


I take it you did not agree with the claims made on glp it would not matter if you were male or female you would get abuse!



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 02:01 PM
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a reply to: neformore

Well, when you use the same generalized terms as they do of course that will be an reasonable conclusion.

It's not individual men being jack erm butts.
It's just men.
It's not individual women.
It's just women.

Claiming that those that get this deplorable treatment need to realize that there are quite simply going to be morons saying vile crap and they need to learn to brush that stupidity off is men "blaming the victim".
Is also not realistic and also something feminism loves to do.
And I should note, saying vile crap on the internet is not the sole domain of "men".

I have yet to see anyone defending the morons making these comments here.
A fact that seems to be missed by you.

If you don't want to be responded as such, don't act like one.
edit on 16-11-2014 by HarbingerOfShadows because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 02:11 PM
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The offenders likely fall into two categories.

1. The cowardly little jackass who realizes he can do this from the safety of his home, without having to fear any immediate repercussions such as "baseball bat...... meet head". He's an inadequate little twit who in no way can have a relevant relationship with a female because he's too inadequate.

2. The actual women haters, those infinitely damaged individuals who are the rapists and serial killers, who in no way can have a relevant relationship with a female because he's too inadequate.

(Or sexual relations are impossible because he weighs 600 lbs.)



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 02:27 PM
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Threatening to rape someone on social media will land you in a lot of trouble, so it isn't tolerated at all. It's actually enforced with an iron fist.

We live in a day and age where you can be jailed for a Facebook post, and for longer than an actual rapist gets jailed for.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 02:40 PM
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a reply to: wmd_2008

that couldn't be further from the truth. i enjoyed many of the viewpoints raised on that site but got major amounts of abuse on my points only when i mentioned my gender. other posts were not gender based if i did not point out my gender, as my username was the same as this which is gender neutral. why would you assume that though based on my original comment?
edit on 16-11-2014 by zombiebbq because: spelling



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 02:45 PM
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a reply to: HarbingerOfShadows

I don't think that anybody is necessarily claiming that only men do this to women--not even nefermore. That's a rather "all or nothing" point of view as nefermore is simply pointing out just ONE aspect of general online abuse that has been getting a lot of attention after Gamergate. If you look at one of my posts a few up, I don't just dismantle online bullies whom are male. I will just as equally go after those who are female. They are rarer and they do absolutely exist. My methodology for each is different because oftentimes, those women who I have encountered in gaming at least that behave in that way generally have developed a pretty sizable chip on their shoulder and go on the offensive (sometimes quite literally).

I prefer a more moderate approach to the matter as neither are acceptable in people. Treat people like thinking and feeling human beings. If you wouldn't say that to someone's face, don't say it online. Just because you can't see their face, that doesn't give the right of anyone--regardless of gender--to dehumanize another human being. It's that simple.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 03:52 PM
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a reply to: mr10k

You know, I regularly scour the internet for location specific public information about myself and have done so for over a decade (real life diagnosed violent sociopath stalker with long record = permanent hiding til the guy croaks). Been doing that for years so I pretty much know exactly what crops up when I do a search of my own name. Pretty boring stuff. After I ended up having an online gaming related article in a magazine about me of which my real name was legally required to receive a monetary prize, the weirdest thing happened. My search returns on my own name changed to websites that provided location information about me. That actually was super creepy, not gonna lie. I'm just glad that I have been vigilant about my information over these years out of absolute necessity and the information these sites had were either a decade off or ridiculously obscure countries.

It's kind of scary though to consider that more and more websites are actually purchasing up information about people that people do not actively share in any public venue. Whitepages.com is actually really bad for publishing information about individuals who are unlisted and unpublished in any phone book. So yeah, people can track you down absolutely these day. All they need is a name and if they can get information about someone like me who was trained by a police department on how to disappear off a radar, then well, most people are screwed. See if you're on there.

This is also why I'm thoroughly against stripping anonymity from the net. In my opinion, that would just bring things to people's doorsteps right quick. I'd rather see permanent ips for people and having these things either being pursued as matters of harassment or worse (ie in cases of death threats) like one would with any other harassment and etc crime where authorities with a warrant can extricate that information and identify the individual themselves. Moreso, I'd like to see the community on the internet actually turning against the kind of people that do this to any other person and stop conditioning their responses with "well, it's JUST the internet...it's not like they can hurt you", which is total bull pucky. Our personal information gets bought and sold on a regular basis and sometimes published without our consent.

Have fun finding yourself on whitepages.com.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 04:33 PM
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...why is this subject always about women as of lately? The internet bully has always been a universal figure that will attack any and all types depending on where you lurk on the internet. I have been a user since the early 90's myself and it has been the same since the beginning, the only difference now is theres more people and more websites for certain views to get pushed out. As an avid gamer myself I have heard everything get used as a weapon of rage, from race, sexual preference, gender, even country of origin or age and it has come from both sides not just one contrary to what feminists might say.

To be honest it feels like militant feminists just co-opted the idea of internet trolls only going after women and men being the only people doing it. The issue many have with militant feminism is that if you disagree with anything they say your the enemy and must be crushed along with favoring censorship or control over others in order to "protect" women. Most people are fine with women having/wanting equal rights, but they are not ok with taking the freedoms of others in the same swing.

I just think this issue is making a mountain out of a mole hill as of late. Oddly this thread should have been about the a-hole culture that internet trolls are a part of but now its turned into a feminist debate which is only a sliver of the trolls victims.I have heard it all said by all genders colors and creeds and everything in between, this isnt about misogyny anymore than it is racism or any other ism. Trolls are trolls and the real issue is people just being A-holes but just like in the real world they exist and shouldn't be taken seriously unless the threats truly have any merit to them. I dont believe censoring or new laws will help people in the long haul. Its what TPTB want in my opinion.

Women are not targeted anymore than any other group are to be honest, just look up any video on youtube and you will find people bashing people for whatever reason they find. I honestly see more racism directed to people of color especially african americans than i do misogyny or women bashing and in the racist posts you see it from both women and men. Its a universal issue more than anything, The real problem is people just being bullies to other people and the need for higher levels of respect and conduct for all of mankind.

Personally i have heard it all said to me both in online gaming or forums just for being a person of color or even my country of origin, but i just laugh it off and move on, why waste my time worrying about someone i will likely never know of beyond some text on a screen or words through a speaker. Im more afraid of the real dangers in my neighborhood or the police than i ever would be of some internet troll. Sure it might piss you off but they are there to feed off your rage, the best way to beat a troll is to just stop feeding them.

This is my 2cents but take it for that, my opinion
edit on 16-11-2014 by unfor54k3n because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 04:41 PM
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a reply to: SensiblyReckless

I have to ask what you appear to be so angry/upset about with my OP and other posts?

Suggesting that people remain in the bounds of common decency is a bad thing?



The OP chose to single out women and portray them as helpless, delicate people who need protecting from online assholes. It's the type of hysteria I'd expect to read in the tabloid press.


No, I didn't.

In a nutshell I said there are assholes out there and society should be doing something about it.

If you are going to criticise what I said, learn to read it first.




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