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Sexism, Misogyny and the rise and rise and rise of the internet asshole....

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posted on Nov, 15 2014 @ 09:40 PM
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a reply to: neformore

While I agree with you (mostly), I think the attitude of the asshole(s) you are talking about can be directed at just about anyone. Here's what I firmly believe:

1. The internet allows the average person to say what they wouldn't say in real life. (male and female)
2. This allows you to see their real personality. The person they hide from the "real" people they encounter out of fear of retribution or shunning.

Shunning WAS (and arguably still might be) a significant social deterrent. However, the advent of the internet, the people that would have been shunned or excommunicated for their words/actions are now safe to be themselves, hidden behind computer screens with anonymous logins or Guest IDs.

Now, the degree of asshole you are talking about are exactly the ones that wouldn't say or do the things they do on the internet. There might be a select few of special individuals that are just plain ignorant. The vast majority of these assholes know the social norms in "real" society but enjoy the luxury of anonymity on the internet.

I personally think that the internet and cellphones/smartphones have done nothing more than connect people online while disconnecting them from humanity. I have been an internet user for a couple/few years longer than you, neformore, and I didn't really see it take a turn for the worse until nearly every adult and child in America had cell phones.

The increase in society's disconnectedness from humanity because of the communication with texting and social media is absolutely ludicrous and you might find a strong correlation in the increase in the behavior you are talking about with the same increase in purchase/use of smart phones.

Arguably, this is a human issue - kids being raised (or born) with a cellphone in their hands. Parents ignoring their kids to play a video game or use their cellphone. I don't know about you, but as a parent, I've taken my child to the park and witnessed other parents sitting on a bench, ignoring their children, and staring at a smartphone. The same child will be desperately trying to get his/her parent's attention to no avail.

A similar story, I've run into a young boy at a park (about 5 yrs old at the time) who came up to me and my child just talking non-stop. He was with the babysitter, who then told me his mom is a single mom and always approaches men to talk, male role model sort of thing. What did he talk about? Shooting the "bad guys" up in Call of Duty. Yes, a 5 year old playing CoD.

Now, I will provide an inverse thought:
1. What if giving these assholes this outlet of anonymous harassment is a positive thing?

Sounds strange, but I've often thought that the drop in the violent crime rate can be attributable to certain things:
1. increase in violent video games (more playing, less doing - there are correlative studies but that's not causation)
2. increase access to porn (more watching, less doing)
3. there are other contributing factors that have been studied/researched and I am not trying to debate this, only provide a possibility that we might be missing something.

If we pulled the plug on the internet, would we see an increase in violent crime? Do we put up with mostly empty/hallow threats online for a relatively peaceful physical world?

Just some things to ponder. (I have more thoughts by will stop here.)




posted on Nov, 15 2014 @ 09:42 PM
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a reply to: undo

You still side-stepped what I said regarding controlling others. You're being quite rude to a member who is telling you in no uncertain terms she's happy with her life & what goes on in it from her religion down to her clothing. Yet, she's brainwashed to you. I think a little self-reflection on the topic of brainwashing is needed here, you cannot say feminists are trying to do good for other women when you're tramping all over them and using the religion as the excuse.



posted on Nov, 15 2014 @ 09:43 PM
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a reply to: undo

I'm NOT a feminist and I believe the human form is beautiful, whether male or female and I believe I have a very high worth...

a very high worth. I'm precious, and priceless.

Plus I second Niyah.
edit on 15-11-2014 by OpinionatedB because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 15 2014 @ 09:49 PM
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originally posted by: Nyiah
a reply to: undo

You still side-stepped what I said regarding controlling others. You're being quite rude to a member who is telling you in no uncertain terms she's happy with her life & what goes on in it from her religion down to her clothing. Yet, she's brainwashed to you. I think a little self-reflection on the topic of brainwashing is needed here, you cannot say feminists are trying to do good for other women when you're tramping all over them and using the religion as the excuse.


i'm telling her, just like i tell everyone else who reads my theories about ancient texts, that i don't think her (or even my former view) are correct where it regards our feminine parts and the degree of modesty we are expected to portray to the public. i think i can prove that the actual god who "created" us is not the guy who said it was a sin to be naked. you see, to solve the problem you have to go to the root of the problem. otherwise, you might as well be talking about canned green beans.



posted on Nov, 15 2014 @ 09:53 PM
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a reply to: undo

Don't you think whatever modesty is put into use is up to the person practicing it? Enlightening highly marginalized & oppressed people are one thing, but you're targeting someone who's chosen her level of modesty of her own free will. How is that acting in any way to her benefit? That's pushing your own views & expectations on to women, just like you deride men for doing to women. There is no difference, control is control.



posted on Nov, 15 2014 @ 09:54 PM
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originally posted by: Nyiah
a reply to: undo

Don't you think whatever modesty is put into use is up to the person practicing it? Enlightening highly marginalized & oppressed people are one thing, but you're targeting someone who's chosen her level of modesty of her own free will. How is that acting in any way to her benefit? That's pushing your own views & expectations on to women, just like you deride men for doing to women. There is no difference, control is control.


oh, i see where you're coming from. nope, i know that she can either take or leave what i'm saying. if i thought for one second that she felt coerced to make a choice, i wouldn't talk about it. but as long as this is an open venue, i'm gonna speak my mind. and that's that!



posted on Nov, 15 2014 @ 10:08 PM
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a reply to: WCmutant

what an interesting post. if you re-read it yourself, do you get the sense that there's so much data coming in that the only way to really make a decision about it is to go with your gut? otherwise, we're all just being drug around by our world views instead of reality



posted on Nov, 15 2014 @ 10:18 PM
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I have always had a problem with the idea of "objectification".
Personally, I want to have sex with women.
Otherwords, human females.

I have never wanted to or would be excited about getting a object, in my case a fleshlight or what have you.

The whole idea just sounds incredibly screwy to me in a puritanical sort of way.



posted on Nov, 15 2014 @ 10:22 PM
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originally posted by: Nyiah
a reply to: undo

Don't you think whatever modesty is put into use is up to the person practicing it? Enlightening highly marginalized & oppressed people are one thing, but you're targeting someone who's chosen her level of modesty of her own free will. How is that acting in any way to her benefit? That's pushing your own views & expectations on to women, just like you deride men for doing to women. There is no difference, control is control.


p.s. read my prior posts. really, you're making judgement calls on my feminism, which is misguided at best. i'm neither a feminist nor a non-feminist. i'm a realist. reality is, that naked is not the problem. if everyone was naked, it would no longer be a social norm to be dressed and people would go back to basing a woman's value on her as a person, rather than her as a mysterious body part collection - the mystery deepens the curiosity which heightens the thrill of discovery, which in turn becomes a weapon against women as some men don't understand how to work around that particular problem = the thrill becomes the woman's fault, which of course is being exacerbated by the mystery of what's under the coverings.

clothing arose to protect us from the environment, which among other things included weather and powerful men who wanted to pick and choose from the available crop of women, who they would have in their harems next. men, trying to save their daugthers, mothers, sisters and other female relatives from the pharaohs harem, hid them from view under veils and bags and house walls. now it's being used by some as a ticket to rape, stone and otherwise abuse women. feminazis are part of that abusive system as well, and are actually fueling it in western culture



posted on Nov, 15 2014 @ 10:24 PM
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So... this thread is all about internet censorship. Plus your using feminists in order to get that.

Keeping the helpless women safe. Yep. Cannot have freedom cannot just turn off the channel we must turn up the volume on censorship.

Sorry... I didn't realize that was what this was all about.

Have fun with that I suppose.
edit on 15-11-2014 by OpinionatedB because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 15 2014 @ 10:24 PM
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Nef:

RE: Your scenario about the restaurant from ATS Live and earlier in this thread -

While the guy is being verbal from his own seat, I'm going to tell him to stay in his own conversation. As long as he keeps it at talk, he'll escape relatively unscathed.

Once he comes to my table and invades my physical space, the next words out of his mouth, as you describe them, will be followed by his taking a big bite of table.

After that, it'll be fine with me if they throw the both of us out, or have us arrested. I don't care - just get him to pick his own teeth up before our exit. If we're both arrested, however, I recommend separate paddy wagons if they intend to preserve the peace, because like I said, I don't care. They can't arrest me twice.



posted on Nov, 15 2014 @ 10:25 PM
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Hope you all enjoyed to this segment on ATS LIve!
Discussion was o: is it OK to abuse people on line, what is covered in the laws. SHould their be consequences to threats of rape and violence online.



posted on Nov, 15 2014 @ 10:27 PM
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a reply to: zazzafrazz

Am I really lagging that far? It's still on on my feed lol



posted on Nov, 15 2014 @ 10:28 PM
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no we are ahead in studio a few mins.

a reply to: TKDRL



posted on Nov, 15 2014 @ 10:30 PM
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originally posted by: OpinionatedB
So... this thread is all about internet censorship. Plus your using feminists in order to get that.

Keeping the helpless women safe. Yep. Cannot have freedom cannot just turn off the channel we must turn up the volume on censorship.

Sorry... I didn't realize that was what this was all about.

Have fun with that I suppose.


who is that addressed to? you're free to not read what people say. you're free to not agree with what people say. it's that simple.



posted on Nov, 15 2014 @ 10:42 PM
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As a large (6'3" 260lb), "manly" man who has spent a lot of time in the wilderness hunting, fishing, hiking, camping and meditating, and having been in the company of many other men who have similar interests, minus the meditation and spiritual connection to the wilds, I believe that I have a rather unique perspective on this rather disturbing behavior exhibited both online and in men-only company. What you and the others commenting within this thread observe online, I observe IRL on many occasions if not on a regular basis.

On the surface, these assholes appear to be women hating, objectifying mysoginists with very little or zero respect for women. However, dig deeper and what you'll find is deeply wounded individuals who were never taught how to handle emotional pain so they take those emotions, converted into anger and project the cause onto what they perceive to be a physically weaker subject, knowing there is but a miniscule chance of any meaningful retaliation or consequence. I would say that a good 9 out of 10 have zero comprehension or recognition of their behavior and its animator, the ego.

There are three primary factors that contribute to the vile behaviors exhibited by the male species, both online and IRL; women in the workplace, Puritanical sexual repression and the global culture of toughness for males.

Women in the workplace is THE primary factor in the dispicable behavior in question. I understand on the surface this sounds like more of the same behavior but a deeper look will show what I'm getting at. Women are the Gods of children, they bring the life into this world, nurture that life at its most vulnerable period and, in the past, are the primary influence on a child during the development of emotional response and the capacity for empathy, love and respect. The global culture of toughness, which I will address later, and the lack of instinctual child rearing essentially renders males incapable of facilitating these developments in children. Don't get me wrong, women should most definitely have careers outside the home, and in many ways are far more qualified and capable than men to operate businesses, but at the same time it is far more important for women to raise their own children at home during those early years of a child's life and then return to their careers once the child starts school. Being at daycare for 8-10 hours a day robs children of the development of key aspects of humanity during the most crucial time in their development. Without the constant, intimate emotional input from the mother, children develope lacking the ability to regulate and express emotions in a healthy manner which later manifests as the conversion of sadness, fear, pain, rejection and in many cases even love, as anger and too often as rage.

This stunted emotional development renders adult males, in most cases, completely incapable of expressing the approriate emotions in response to the input around them, and all too often basic emotions that should be easy and natural to process end up being expressed as anger and/or resentment towards women, and worst of all the man has no idea he is doing that, and if he does recognize it, he has no clue as to why. Bottom line is that the mother is the single most important factor in a loving, respectful and productive society and we saw a quick & steep decline from the 1970's on and are now gradually losing that altogether, and the world is poorer for it. I guarantee that every women hating asshole on the planet has zero respect for his own mother, and that is primarily because he was raised by multiple women including daycare workers, babysitters and teachers, none of which gave him the emotional training required feel empathy and unconditional love.


The next big factor is the leftover Puritanical repression of sexuality that has, despite the sexual revolution in the 1960's, somehow persisted in our society. Sex is the single most healthy and natural act of the human species, yet somehow we are still embarassed by sexuality and continue to insist on teaching abstinence to our youth when we know damned well it doesn't work. Without real sexual education and instruction, teenage boys learn about sex through pornography which sets unrealistic performance standards while simultaneously teaching bad sex that is one-sided. These boys then take those emotionally vacant "techniques" and performance standards into the bedroom and then feel embarassment and shame because they have not pleased their partner. I know this from personal experience as I was absolutely terrible at sex from ages 15-22, but luckily for me, just before I turned 23 I met a 37 year old woman who taught me what real sex was, how to make love and just how ridiculous my porn inspired sexual techniques actually were. But not every guy is lucky enough to find such a teacher, so they go on for decades being bad at sex, embarrassed that they can't satisfy a woman, feeling shame they can't keep a woman and then redirecting those feelings into anger and rage toward women, never knowing that the problem lies with their inability to make an emotional connection with their sexual partner.

We live in a society that reviles and discourages sexual liberation from puberty to the grave which is manifested in our entertainment as censorship of sex and glorification of violence. So is it any wonder that men make ackward, aggressive and emotionless sexual advances and when repeatedly rebuked, end up angry at women? This all stems from a centuries old religious tradition right in line with modern fundamentalist Islamic views on women and sexuality, and we have to leave it behind.


The last major factor is the global culture of toughness for males. This is pretty self explanatory; men repressing emotions because expressing them is a percieved sign of weakness. Combine this ridiculous cultural tradition with already severely stunted emotional development and the embarrassment & shame of the inability to hold up to unrealistic sexual performance standards and you have yourself a gigantic, smelly asshole that hounds and bullies women from behind a keyboard.



posted on Nov, 15 2014 @ 10:52 PM
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a reply to: LowTechRedneck
Personally, the only part of that post I can personally relate to is the whole tough guy thing. I have a real hard time showing emotions other than aloof and anger, as those seemed to be the only thing acceptable for a boy to feel. If you expressed anything else you were poked fun of. I learned to put up an ice cold mask, but I have not learned to take the mask off yet. I could not even cry in front of others when I lost my grandmother last year.



posted on Nov, 15 2014 @ 10:53 PM
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originally posted by: LowTechRedneck


As a large (6'3" 260lb), "manly" man who has spent a lot of time in the wilderness hunting, fishing, hiking, camping and meditating, and having been in the company of many other men who have similar interests, minus the meditation and spiritual connection to the wilds, I believe that I have a rather unique perspective on this rather disturbing behavior exhibited both online and in men-only company. What you and the others commenting within this thread observe online, I observe IRL on many occasions if not on a regular basis.

On the surface, these assholes appear to be women hating, objectifying mysoginists with very little or zero respect for women. However, dig deeper and what you'll find is deeply wounded individuals who were never taught how to handle emotional pain so they take those emotions, converted into anger and project the cause onto what they perceive to be a physically weaker subject, knowing there is but a miniscule chance of any meaningful retaliation or consequence. I would say that a good 9 out of 10 have zero comprehension or recognition of their behavior and its animator, the ego.

There are three primary factors that contribute to the vile behaviors exhibited by the male species, both online and IRL; women in the workplace, Puritanical sexual repression and the global culture of toughness for males.

Women in the workplace is THE primary factor in the dispicable behavior in question. I understand on the surface this sounds like more of the same behavior but a deeper look will show what I'm getting at. Women are the Gods of children, they bring the life into this world, nurture that life at its most vulnerable period and, in the past, are the primary influence on a child during the development of emotional response and the capacity for empathy, love and respect. The global culture of toughness, which I will address later, and the lack of instinctual child rearing essentially renders males incapable of facilitating these developments in children. Don't get me wrong, women should most definitely have careers outside the home, and in many ways are far more qualified and capable than men to operate businesses, but at the same time it is far more important for women to raise their own children at home during those early years of a child's life and then return to their careers once the child starts school. Being at daycare for 8-10 hours a day robs children of the development of key aspects of humanity during the most crucial time in their development. Without the constant, intimate emotional input from the mother, children develope lacking the ability to regulate and express emotions in a healthy manner which later manifests as the conversion of sadness, fear, pain, rejection and in many cases even love, as anger and too often as rage.

This stunted emotional development renders adult males, in most cases, completely incapable of expressing the approriate emotions in response to the input around them, and all too often basic emotions that should be easy and natural to process end up being expressed as anger and/or resentment towards women, and worst of all the man has no idea he is doing that, and if he does recognize it, he has no clue as to why. Bottom line is that the mother is the single most important factor in a loving, respectful and productive society and we saw a quick & steep decline from the 1970's on and are now gradually losing that altogether, and the world is poorer for it. I guarantee that every women hating asshole on the planet has zero respect for his own mother, and that is primarily because he was raised by multiple women including daycare workers, babysitters and teachers, none of which gave him the emotional training required feel empathy and unconditional love.


The next big factor is the leftover Puritanical repression of sexuality that has, despite the sexual revolution in the 1960's, somehow persisted in our society. Sex is the single most healthy and natural act of the human species, yet somehow we are still embarassed by sexuality and continue to insist on teaching abstinence to our youth when we know damned well it doesn't work. Without real sexual education and instruction, teenage boys learn about sex through pornography which sets unrealistic performance standards while simultaneously teaching bad sex that is one-sided. These boys then take those emotionally vacant "techniques" and performance standards into the bedroom and then feel embarassment and shame because they have not pleased their partner. I know this from personal experience as I was absolutely terrible at sex from ages 15-22, but luckily for me, just before I turned 23 I met a 37 year old woman who taught me what real sex was, how to make love and just how ridiculous my porn inspired sexual techniques actually were. But not every guy is lucky enough to find such a teacher, so they go on for decades being bad at sex, embarrassed that they can't satisfy a woman, feeling shame they can't keep a woman and then redirecting those feelings into anger and rage toward women, never knowing that the problem lies with their inability to make an emotional connection with their sexual partner.

We live in a society that reviles and discourages sexual liberation from puberty to the grave which is manifested in our entertainment as censorship of sex and glorification of violence. So is it any wonder that men make ackward, aggressive and emotionless sexual advances and when repeatedly rebuked, end up angry at women? This all stems from a centuries old religious tradition right in line with modern fundamentalist Islamic views on women and sexuality, and we have to leave it behind.


The last major factor is the global culture of toughness for males. This is pretty self explanatory; men repressing emotions because expressing them is a percieved sign of weakness. Combine this ridiculous cultural tradition with already severely stunted emotional development and the embarrassment & shame of the inability to hold up to unrealistic sexual performance standards and you have yourself a gigantic, smelly asshole that hounds and bullies women from behind a keyboard.





Yes!!!!!




posted on Nov, 15 2014 @ 10:59 PM
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a reply to: LowTechRedneck

while an interesting and informative post, the problem is that particular issue has been around for a long time, well before the rise of the internet, so all the internet is doing is allowing some men to vent their frustration, not about sex so much as about marginalization that arose due to feminazism. a healthy form of feminism is just positive reinforcement that your body and gender, is nothing to be ashamed of and given the right circumstances, would not even be an issue were it not for the need for protective clothing. curiosity fuels the problem, as it develops an air of mystery, which in turn thrills and excites the imagination, which in turn is redirected suddenly to a set of mores that says - bad bad bad sin sin sin (and i don't mean sinbad), which is then PROJECTED unto the source of the curiosity, thrill and excitement.

i recall a high school class where i was sitting leisurely in a chair that had music speakers on each side. i was listening to some 70s music on it, like foghat or reo speedwagon. in walks this basketball player, who marches up to me and outta nowhere, declares i'm nothing but a big dumb blonde, and then stares at my breasts. i blinked at him repeatedly (which probably didn't help the big dumb blonde label), before laughing nervously. i spent the next 20 years of my life wondering why he said that, like out of the clear blue sky. then it struck me: he was projecting. my covered body parts caused him to be sexually excited, which in turn made him feel bad about himself, which he then projected on to me.

now i feel kinda bad for him. then, i was really hurt and spent years fuming about it every time it crossed my mind. he had no idea what was driving that mechanism (biology) and the resulting psychological effect.



posted on Nov, 15 2014 @ 11:03 PM
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originally posted by: TKDRL
a reply to: LowTechRedneck
Personally, the only part of that post I can personally relate to is the whole tough guy thing. I have a real hard time showing emotions other than aloof and anger, as those seemed to be the only thing acceptable for a boy to feel. If you expressed anything else you were poked fun of. I learned to put up an ice cold mask, but I have not learned to take the mask off yet. I could not even cry in front of others when I lost my grandmother last year.


Me too. When my dad died, I was absolutely stoic and dry-eyed for days. I sat ON the coffin guarding it for the 300 mile trip to the graveyard entirely dry-eyed. It wasn't until the night after we dropped him in the hole, when I was entirely and utterly alone at a cabin in the middle of nowhere in the mountains that I could cut loose.

Still, somehow, I manage to avoid threatening to rape women who irritate me. The thought never even crosses my mind, much less jump out of my fingertips into a keyboard. Why would I want to get THAT close to them if they've already ticked me off, anyhow?

Sometimes, this world is just entirely incomprehensible to me. Must be the old age and senility creeping in.



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