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court ordered to pay for college....what do you think about that?

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posted on Nov, 15 2014 @ 06:37 AM
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originally posted by: Aazadan

It still costs $8000 per year. At minimum wage that is 21 hours of work per week to afford tuition.
then i say i guess you need to make more than minimum wage and/or work more than 21 hours....

That does not include living expenses.
thats where the more work thing comes in


The only options are to already have a good paying job, or to qualify for loans. Neither of which this girl can do.


^^^^i guess thats the breaks then
she could wait a couple years to go. she could not go at all. she could work more hours.....
i hear a lot of whining....."but how can they go to school and work at the same time?"

i guess if they want it bad enough thats what they need to do.....
before i got hurt i was working 50-70 hours a week. i did that for a couple years.....
if i can work 70 hours in a week then others can go to school and work at the same time....seems to me like this thread is full of excuses and blah blah about its so hard to do.....
well it may not be easy but im thinking its possible...

my step father worked a full time job and 2 part time jobs at the same time for like 7 years....
thats a lot of hours taken up in a week.

if i can work the hours i did and he can work the hours he did then ADULTS should be able to figure out how to handle school and work at the same time without forcing their parents to pay....

people want degrees and i get it...thats a good thing...people dont HAVE to go to school full time...they CAN take a semester off each year to work.....

its been done before and it can be done again.....

too much whining about how hard it would be to pay your own way......




posted on Nov, 15 2014 @ 09:10 AM
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a reply to: Grovit

Working a full time job, one that pays non-degree wages, barely pays for living expenses. There's no way it can pay for tuition too.

Just because you can't control the teenager, doesn't mean you don't have an obligation to help them be independent adults who can earn a decent living. Not providing a college education in today's world most likely means they will be living in proverty their entire life.



posted on Nov, 15 2014 @ 09:26 AM
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originally posted by: Daughter2


Working a full time job, one that pays non-degree wages, barely pays for living expenses. There's no way it can pay for tuition too.
i dont agree. get a roommate to split the cost of rent with..rent an efficiency...work full time and go to school part time...make the grades to get a scholarship..get student loans

Just because you can't control the teenager, doesn't mean you don't have an obligation to help them be independent adults who can earn a decent living.
its not about controlling them when they are a teen. its about when they become an adult, my obligation stops

Not providing a college education in today's world most likely means they will be living in proverty their entire life.
thats just plain BS



i am not saying i would never help my daughter financially when she becomes an adult...i am saying that i do not HAVE to....

people feel so damn entitled anymore...

my wife was going to school when we met...studying childrens lit....
she was living with her dad...had student loans and worked part time at a pizza shop...
she was getting it done..why cant this girl do the same?

lots of excuses is what i hear....its hard....its expensive....blah blah

yeah well life is hard.....

why cant these people go to school part time and work full time?
why cant they rent a small place with a roomie?
it can be done.....

i still dont agree and i wont agree with parents being forced by the courts to pay for college...i see all the excuses about how it is oh so hard....still dont agree.

in the real world, not everyone gets what they want...
there are lots of jobs out there that pay for school as long as the classes are related to the job you have or job youre aiming for...
if not living in poverty is the goal then that is a perfectly good option....

go get a job at a bank and they will pay for financial classes......

go get a job doing oil changes at your local firestone and they will pay for you to go to school and then pay for you to take your ASE's....then you can actually be a tech and make some money....thats exactly how i started....

oh no no no....they want to major in ancient aramaic and expect mommy and daddy to foot the bill right?

please



posted on Nov, 15 2014 @ 09:33 AM
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a reply to: boohoo
It's amazing how Americans keep electing republicans who save them from the government lol. They are to stupid to realize the take power from elected government and give it to the Corporations who are not elected. Sigh...



posted on Nov, 15 2014 @ 10:20 AM
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originally posted by: Grovit
my step father worked a full time job and 2 part time jobs at the same time for like 7 years....
thats a lot of hours taken up in a week.

if i can work the hours i did and he can work the hours he did then ADULTS should be able to figure out how to handle school and work at the same time without forcing their parents to pay....

Ever hear of the saying "that was then and this is now"?


I understand your point Grovit, but what you are missing is that even if someone WANTED to work 3-4 jobs to get themselves through school, it isn't possible TODAY.

Why not, you may ask? Because there are not enough jobs for everyone to have ONE job, much less 3-4 per person - these days.

Honestly, even if they could find and work all those jobs just to get to school, they certainly wouldn't be very successful at it, with literally NO time left over to actually DO the course work.
edit on 15-11-2014 by MoonBlossom because: Spelling



posted on Nov, 15 2014 @ 10:29 AM
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No cooperation, no pay for college.

Too many liberals in government.



posted on Nov, 15 2014 @ 11:05 AM
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a reply to: MoonBlossom

i still dont agree.
i have argued the job thing in other threads...there are jobs out there....not great. not careers but they exist. people just dont want to do them...
even if everything you say is correct, i still dont think a parent should be forced to pay for college...

nothing about other things i mentioned???

if the end goal is to get a decent paying job so not to live in 'poverty' there are ways to do that too.
i mentioned a few of them....

i think it is very much possible to work your way through school....not saying the situations would be easy or ideal, but it can be done...

night school/community college/distance learning.....it is possible

there a lots of adults(people over 18) that go to the community college down the street from me and work at the same time.....its possible.

if this girl in the article was so damn worried about it then maybe she should not have left her parents house.....they said they had agreed to pay for her school....they wanted her to follow certain rules and she didnt want to...she rebelled against those rules and left home.....
that was her choice.....

nothing but excuses......

things are not that different from a few years ago....my ex went to college part time for her physical therapist degree...it took her a long time to do it...she lived at home....paid her own way through loans.....worked part time through all semesters except summer. she took summer semester to work full time...
she managed.....it can be done

its much easier to kick back though and keep using your parents dime though....thats what i see



posted on Nov, 15 2014 @ 02:50 PM
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originally posted by: Kangaruex4Ewe
How about kids do like they used to do and either get scholarships or work their way through college themselves. Higher education is a privilege and not a right for anyone. I think the court is dead wrong on this decision. I think they are even more dead wrong because this girl is in her twenties. You can legally kick them out of your house at 18, but you need to pay for college at 21??

Nope. I would be tempted to quit my job and sell all my assets before she got a penny from it for college. It's the principle of the matter.

I can't wait until they start telling parents that they need to pay all of their kid's medical costs when they are in their 30's.

I almost can't wait until this entire entitled generations parents die off....

The world may cease to spin as the me, me, me hits the fan.


Although I am in total 100% agreement with the majority of your post, I do have this to add....

You stated,

How about kids do like they used to do and either get scholarships or work their way through college themselves.


The issue with this I have is that this is no longer really an option. It is impossible to work your way through school like people did in the 60's and 70's. The cost has gone up so much that the best you can hope for is to work your way through Community College, taking very specific classes. You can forget about taking a full course, while deciding on a major. Plus, you will need to be working full time while you do it. A part time job won't cut it.



posted on Nov, 15 2014 @ 03:26 PM
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Man there are some cheap people in this world. I for one am going to pay for my childrens college. I have been preparing since they were born. I see it as my responsibility as a parent. They did not choose to be here. I and their mother made that choice for them. We chose to have sex and bring them into this world. I wont pay for everything when they are past the age of 18 but i will pay for their education.

I am also a father who is not with the mother of my children anymore. I do not have to pay the mother of my children because she came after me for child support. I give money to her because its my responsibility as a man. Right after we broke up I told her I would take care of her and the kids. She was bat-ish crazy but I knew that going in and I made the choice to marry her and have kids with her.

Some people are talking about the kids being entitled and being selfish with a me first attitude. What about the parents who do not want to take on the financial responsibility of having kids in today world. Its not like kids magically appear out of the ether. In my opinion, my financial responsibility, lasts until my kids are out of collage. But, as they say, to each his own.



posted on Nov, 15 2014 @ 03:37 PM
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originally posted by: tothetenthpower
a reply to: Grovit

The state should pay for all college tuition costs.

It's an investment in the future of your workforce. Just make them sign a contract that states they will work within the country for X number of years after they graduate.

This story in particular? Not a fan of courts telling people what to do with their money.

~Tenth


That's a nice thought but it doesn't really work when college grads can't even get any kind of job until X years after college.



posted on Nov, 15 2014 @ 03:47 PM
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There are jobs out there that can help pay your way through school, if she doesn't want to actually work... Tough, anyone that says it's impossible is not making that choice based on fact.



posted on Nov, 15 2014 @ 03:53 PM
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a reply to: karmicecstasy

when my sons mother and i split like 17 years ago, i am the one that went down and volunteered myself to a support order. i never wanted my son to think i did not want to help support him. i also didnt want her playing the game of not letting me have visitation.
all that said, i am glad it is going to be over...he is 18 now and i will be paying for a few more months till he graduates high school. i think the support should stop as of the 18th birthday but i can live with a few extra months...
so, watch who youre calling cheap ok...

a lot of fathers would dodge it all costs...i didnt....

she left when he was 1 and i have been paying for 17 years....
he was my son and i had/have a responsibility and i honored it....i will also say it is hard to to when visits are very limited...when i dont have a say in what any of the money goes for....

for example she put him in catholic school for years....i had zero say in that....i did not want him in that school but she did so thats how it went....the money i paid went to a catholic education i did not want him to have...
thats hard to swallow but that is just one example....

my visits were set but i missed a lot of things.....she never 1 time in 17 years let me have a visit with him outside of my set days and times unless she wanted to go out of town or something...

i had to ask permission to take my son to niagra falls only to be told no....that # is hard to swallow do yeah, i am friggin thrilled that this child support is over....

she got to pick school clothes...school supplies....she is the one that took him shopping for that stuff. used the money i gave but i was not allowed to be involved.....that was very hard to deal with....

the way the visits were limited and the way i was not really allowed to have him other than those times have caused us to not really have a solid relationship......
we talk and see each other but not that much.....he is my son and i live him but its not the same as my daughter, who i am with every day, all day....
its just different.....

------------

i dont see how all these people are saying it is impossible to pay your way through college these days cause it is not true...i know people through my youngest brother that are in the 18-20 year old range and they do it....i know people through my bro in law that are in their late 20's that are doing it now...
it can be done.....
as i said..might not be easy...might not be the best situation but it is possible....

karmic, thats great you have been planning from day one to pay for your kids college....i have been planning from day one not to.....even if i had the money i would not....

i am not one of these people that believe you have to have a college degree to do well....
there are a lot of people that were hell bent on college that went and got their associates or bachelors and cant get a job in their field and wind up doing something totally unrelated anyway....



posted on Nov, 15 2014 @ 03:55 PM
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originally posted by: Irishhaf
There are jobs out there that can help pay your way through school, if she doesn't want to actually work... Tough, anyone that says it's impossible is not making that choice based on fact.


youre right...ive said as much in this thread about 10 times...i know people that have done it and not decades ago.
it can be done if you want it and work for it....thats the kicker.....people these days dont want it that way....
they want it to be handed to them.....



posted on Nov, 15 2014 @ 09:51 PM
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originally posted by: Grovit
then i say i guess you need to make more than minimum wage and/or work more than 21 hours....


If you don't have the education how are you going to make more than minimum wage?

Anyways, that's 21 to pay for tuition, then you need to cover living expenses which is another 30 if you're quite frugal. So now you're working 51 hours per week. If you're a full time student (and I'll get to why you MUST be full time below) that's another 12 credit hours which is 24 hours of class so you're at 75. Add in homework and you're at 113 hours going by the old 2 hours out of class for every 1 hour in class standard and we're not even including classes which are quite difficult. I know that atleast once every other semester I get a class which flat out says on the syllabus "if you try to hold a job while taking this class you will not pass". It's not uncommon for these classes to take 30-40 hours per week on their own, of course you can supplement that with tutoring but tutoring takes even more time.


before i got hurt i was working 50-70 hours a week. i did that for a couple years.....
if i can work 70 hours in a week then others can go to school and work at the same time....seems to me like this thread is full of excuses and blah blah about its so hard to do.....
well it may not be easy but im thinking its possible...


I've been in school for awhile, what I want to do with my life takes a lot of education. I have four degrees and am working on my fifth and final one so I've been around the block with college. I work 20 hours a week, attend school full time, and do another 20ish hours self employed (unpaid of course) on software I would like to one day sell. I'm quite intelligent, well adjusted to the atmosphere, grasp things rather quickly, and I can still barely do it. 70 hours a week sounds like a vacation. It's not nearly as easy as you make it sound.

None of that is even going into the issues that low wage jobs don't give full time anymore, they give a max of 30 hours per week which means you need two jobs. Now you not only have to manage conflicting work schedules with classes that aren't necessarily going to get along with those work schedules. What happens when you need to take an 8 am calculus class but the boss at your Starbucks wants you to open the store on those days? With multiple jobs that stuff happens more often.


if i can work the hours i did and he can work the hours he did then ADULTS should be able to figure out how to handle school and work at the same time without forcing their parents to pay....


If you did it others can? What if you're more capable than others? Should they be unable to improve themselves? If you're above average, by definition most people cannot do what you did.


people want degrees and i get it...thats a good thing...people dont HAVE to go to school full time...they CAN take a semester off each year to work.....


No, you cannot. At a low wage job it generally takes multiple years of work in order to pay for a single semester. By the time you can put the money together costs will again increase. Tuition is doubling about every 9 years right now while wages for those lower on the income scale need 35 years for wages to double. If you attend part time with a low wage you will never be able to pay for your classes, they become relatively more expensive as time goes on. This means that it takes more and more work to take each class than the previous class.

Furthermore, your education means less and less as you take more classes. If you take two years of classes you know the basics and can get yourself an Associates. If you drop out at 3 years you have nothing, if you drop at at 4 years you have even less than that. Until you actually complete the degree you don't have anything tangible that employers care about.

Now, the big problem with taking fewer classes is that requirements change every year, and the classes you need to graduate are updated. As classes cease to be taught, a student must update their course schedule to meet the new requirements and take the new classes. If you're on the 4 year plan you can can expect a semesters worth of classes to be obsolete and need replaced before you graduate. If you're on the 6 year plan expect about 2.5 semesters worth of classes. If you go for an 8 year plan it's more along the lines of 6 semesters and with the way prereq's for classes work you can't just skip the classes that will drop off.

Additionally, on a 6 or 8 year plan you will face additional delays due to those prereq's. For example you may need a specific class that is only taught once per year in order to take more advanced classes. If you can't take it you lose out on that semester, and you lose out on the next semester.

There is no benefit to taking fewer classes, if you can't goto college full time for whatever reason you should simply not go, otherwise you will waste a lot of additional time and money.


originally posted by: Grovit
my wife was going to school when we met...studying childrens lit....
she was living with her dad...had student loans and worked part time at a pizza shop...
she was getting it done..why cant this girl do the same?


So your wife was attending school when college was cheaper, had a relationship with her parents that allowed her to take loans, and had living expenses covered. Then she met you and got additional support. This girls version of "doing the same" would be shacking up with some guy and leeching off of him. Is that seriously what you're advocating?


there are lots of jobs out there that pay for school as long as the classes are related to the job you have or job youre aiming for...
if not living in poverty is the goal then that is a perfectly good option....

go get a job at a bank and they will pay for financial classes......


Do you own a business? Will you pay for your lowest level employees to take college classes as a perk? Also, companies when they do pay for classes tend to only pay for very specific ones. It typically takes 40 classes for a Bachelors (assuming your requirements don't change halfway through and you don't need to take any non scheduled prereqs). A bank covering 2 or 3 classes doesn't even offset your costs by 10% of what's needed. That's if you can even get a skilled labor position in the first place, without a degree chances are you'll be working at Pizza Hut. Last I checked they don't pay for classes.


oh no no no....they want to major in ancient aramaic and expect mommy and daddy to foot the bill right?

please


By your own admission your wife did childrens lit, that's hardly a high paying or even super beneficial field to society. It's on par with womens studies. You (and seemingly her) had no problem with her getting help from parents. Double standard much?



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 07:18 AM
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originally posted by: Aazadan


If you don't have the education how are you going to make more than minimum wage?



By your own admission your wife did childrens lit, that's hardly a high paying or even super beneficial field to society. It's on par with womens studies. You (and seemingly her) had no problem with her getting help from parents. Double standard much?


im a high school drop out and the only job i have ever had that was minimum wage was my first job....ive done pretty well i think.....
when i started out i job hopped a bit and went to a skilled trade. more than one employer paid for my school and testing.....left that field down the road for another and that company did the same thing.....dropped out of school when i was 16....dad was in jail and i was working to pay the rent.....

im not buying this living in poverty with no degree or will only make minimum wage with no college BS cause it is simply not true.
i am far from the only example of someone that can make good money without it.

we are far from rolling in it but i pay child support to a boy that just turned 18 and support my wife and daughter, all on my single income...she does not work.
we have a house...no credit card debt...bills not past due...no car payments...

so give it a rest....
we live within our means but everything we have we own....i dont owe money on any of it..


and no, it is no double standard....i said several times in this thread that if people live with their parents and/or work part time they can do it....
my problem is with the parents being forced to pay...guess you didnt read that part....



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 07:26 AM
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The answer is simple, pay the college directly, not to her. That means they show up, and pay her tuition, and then depending on the court order, if they can get away with it, pick her classes for her, that way she will have no choice but to take the courses they choose. And if she fails said courses, and drops out, well then their obligation is done and over. Mind you this is only for college and college only, not for her rent, not for her phone, not for anything but her schooling.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 07:43 AM
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a reply to: sdcigarpig

i admit there are a lot of variables i dont know in reguards to being made to pay....

would the parent who is paying be allowed to be involved in picking the childs major? you know so they are not paying for a degree that offers little job prospects?

what happens when a year or 2 in the child decides to drop out? the parents would just be out 32 grand in this case? money just in the wind?

what if she flunks out? money gone?

these are reasons why i have issues with it.....too many variables...

i have a lot of time to make a final decision in reguards to my daughter...like 16 years...
when she graduates high school and she wants to go to college, my thinking is of course she can live here...my goal is not to make it hard on her...she can live here and not have to buy food...
she has to pay her own tuition though...

too many things could happen to cause a child not to finish school and then the parent would just be out that money...

do people not understand that?



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 09:21 AM
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a reply to: Grovit
You follow the court order, and to the letter. The court is stating that they have to pay for college of the child. Ok, so then it means that the parents have to go down and pay the bills for the college, however, they can use this order to their advantage, and choose the major, thus making the child take the courses to ensure that said child will have to attend classes or even go into a major that will allow for them to get a job and get a degree.

If a court was going to order that I pay for the schooling for someone, then I would ask the court to allow me some leeway in that aspect, to include the ability to chose the persons major, and the classes that go along with such.

But here is the rub, by paying the college directly, and not giving it to the girl, then that means she will have to find a place to live, and to feed herself. And it also means her cellphone and spending money is no longer there for her to use as she desires, including no more shopping for nice clothing. In short it takes alot out of her control.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 04:01 PM
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originally posted by: Grovit
im a high school drop out and the only job i have ever had that was minimum wage was my first job....ive done pretty well i think.....
when i started out i job hopped a bit and went to a skilled trade. more than one employer paid for my school and testing.....left that field down the road for another and that company did the same thing.....dropped out of school when i was 16....dad was in jail and i was working to pay the rent.....


I graduated high school, have 3 associates degrees and a bachelors degree, plus many more classes for another bachelors... I have never been paid more than minimum wage. No company has ever offered to cover some of my classes, much less all of them. Every class I have ever taken has either come out of my pocket or grant money, every certification I have gotten has come out of my pocket.

I just don't think we're going to agree here, your argument is so contradictory to my life experience that you might as well be saying water isn't wet.


im not buying this living in poverty with no degree or will only make minimum wage with no college BS cause it is simply not true.
i am far from the only example of someone that can make good money without it.


There is a huge chunk of college graduates these days that are working minimum wage jobs if they can find a job at all. Do you think having fewer qualifications is going to work out for someone?



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 04:27 PM
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originally posted by: Aazadan


I graduated high school, have 3 associates degrees and a bachelors degree, plus many more classes for another bachelors... I have never been paid more than minimum wage.
proof that a college degree does not equal a good paying job

I just don't think we're going to agree here, your argument is so contradictory to my life experience that you might as well be saying water isn't wet.
thats fine...we disagree. i dont know nor do i really care about your life experiences....im talking about my life experiences....


There is a huge chunk of college graduates these days that are working minimum wage jobs if they can find a job at all. Do you think having fewer qualifications is going to work out for someone?


^^^i know there are a lot of college grads out there working minimum wage jobs...that kind of proves my point that having a degree does not guarantee employment....

i really dont know what else to tell you but i have always been of the opinion that you dont NEED a degree to get a good paying job...

i like how this thread is only 3 pages and we have posts saying you need a degree to get a good paying job and if you dont have a degree you will live in poverty.
then we have posts like the one you just made talking about how you have never made above minimum wage and how there are college grads other than you that work minimum wage jobs, if they can even find a job...

so which is it?

must you have a degree to get a good paying job? if so, why dont you have one? if so, why so many grads working minimum wage?

maybe its where you live. maybe its the degrees you chose to pursue but in the end, it really sucks for you to put all that time in effort into all your degrees to work for minimum wage in the end anyway...

sucks for all the other college grads out there that are having a hard time finding a job period.

ive never had a problem getting a job....then again, i chose trades that not everyone does and there will always be a demand for...
its worked out for me my entire adult life and i dont see that changing.


plus, if the bottom ever falls out for me, i can make money on the side and under the table, no problem.

good luck to the people with art degrees or whatever trying to make some extra cash or under the table work if they cant find anything else....

another thing thats nice is when money comes to you....
i get calls quite often wanting to know if ican do this or that...

i dont do much past a diagnosis anymore but its nice when i can break out the mig welder and make myself $50 in 15 minutes.


edit on 16-11-2014 by Grovit because: (no reason given)



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