A Roman Shipwreck in Rio de Janeiro? The Amphorae in Guanabara Bay.

originally posted by: phinubian
a reply to: theantediluvian

Until someone can give a proper explanation for the Olmec heads which are clearly out of place amongst artifacts, all the rest is hypothesis as well, one might have to think Pangaea happened was intact not so long ago in terms of history or the distances between the continents was closer than than what exists now so when you put the great distances traveled in perspective, today according to Wikipedia, 1,600 mi (2,575 km) separate Africa and South America , Imagine even if 3-5000 years ago it was only half that or less, this would not be unthinkable....more re-examination of those theories would probably need to occur.

Er no, plate tectonics move very slowly estimates vary between 1-10 cm a year, Pangea broke up around 105 million years ago.

What is it that you feel is not sufficient about the theories dealing with the 17 Olmec heads?

So if true according to this the Roman Empire found the Americas first. If true this could be huge. The roman empire had the biggest navy military the whole ancient world had ever seen.

I'd believe the Phoenicians made it here before the Romans and the Chinese made it to the Left Coast before the Romans but that's still all off the record.


Regards

a reply to: theantediluvian

As a bit of a Romanophile this is always one of my favorite topics. I do not think it implausible to speculate that the Romans or Phoenicians would have been carried here by trade winds.

It becomes a bit more difficult to believe when some people postulate that they had regular trade when there is no evidence in the historical record that shows that they did.

a reply to: theantediluvian


Good Find and what you said of the OMNI June 1983 MAG..

I checked my Collection Confirmed !

Called Romans In Rio Page 43 of the Magazine

To Enlighten You Ill show you this Web Site as Ive Posted this a Few Times on ATS ..

See this First

Artefacts, Atlantis and the route to the sea
www.atlantisbolivia.org...

Then This

Artefacts found in Bolivia and South America suggest an ancient Sumerian connection
www.atlantisbolivia.org...

what this Site Shows is Similarity's of the Old World to the New.. as I said Recent in another Thread about the Viking and New York Iroquois Mohawk & Seneca Connection of the Longhouse Similarity's as Confirmed Found Viking Settlement in Newfoundland ... Funny Legend Claims of Iroquois & Hurons seeing White Giants Assuming Vikings

Longhouse
en.wikipedia.org...


350 Years of Vikings and Norse in North America - Linguistic Evidence
www.academia.edu...

Possible Longhouse ruins of Viking era found !
www.abovetopsecret.com...


I Have been saying this in the past Years on ATS

That Ancient Europe and Asia and Sumeria Has been Coming To the New World Before Columbus, Ericson,

Curious to note the Carbon Dating of these Pottery's

So if this Find is True about these Roman Pottery's from Rio

I guess its Confirmed...

a reply to: Hanslune

Er, no can you actually prove that through some of your own methodologies and research? or are you regurgitating what you have been told, most evidence supporting many of these theories are just that , theory.
At most what you are attempting to bring to bear with your numbers is pseudo science at best, there are no authentic proofs that explain why you have clearly African heads of massive size in South America that no one would dare say that people resembling them existed in parallel with the actual estimated age...that my friend is my argument, prove me wrong for my own speculation and curiosity about the subjects, don't make a feeble attempt to make yourself look smart or like an expert at my expense, it won't work.

a reply to: SLAYER69

I would agree, or even the Carthagenians, Rome was but a small Colony while they were reigning supreme, but as with any king of the block, a greater will always come along and take your spot, from everything I have read the Punic Wars were very nasty but before that, there was no equal on the seas, that is according to history, another thing is how sure are we it is truly a Roman artifact , one would have to speculate, Romans stole their ingenuity and craft of boatmaking, however , perfected it and being seamen from a culture that was thriving and ruling the seas hundreds of years before Rome was even a place to speak of.

Whats astounding is people have no issues believing the ancients could build huge cities and monoliths with such precision track vast amounts of astrological data, but couldn't accomplish crossing any large body of water on a boat? Seriously, think about it. When coc aine was found in the mummy wrappings and the coca plant is indigenous to South America was all it took for me to know not believe ancients were making oceanic crossings, and not because opps caught in a current off course... although, it would be a very good reason for how they found routes to the other continents to begin with, especially if they managed to get their bearings from their knowledge of astral navigation and make it back home.

I would think if you landed in a strange land and the existing civilization could empathize with being lost at sea, it would create a trade partnership... as they would need to restock supplies, trade some bubbles they had but didnt need with a promise to return. Even if they didn't speak the same language, a game of charades and a stick in the sand still conveys the same meaning without use of words.

originally posted by: phinubian
a reply to: Hanslune

Er, no can you actually prove that through some of your own methodologies and research? or are you regurgitating what you have been told, most evidence supporting many of these theories are just that , theory.
At most what you are attempting to bring to bear with your numbers is pseudo science at best, there are no authentic proofs that explain why you have clearly African heads of massive size in South America that no one would dare say that people resembling them existed in parallel with the actual estimated age...that my friend is my argument, prove me wrong for my own speculation and curiosity about the subjects, don't make a feeble attempt to make yourself look smart or like an expert at my expense, it won't work.

Tsk tsk

Real science even if you don't like it, lol .They don't look African to me but like the present people in those regions, especially Chiapas, where I have been too. there is no archaeology whatsoever to support Africans* in Meso America. All science is theory so not sure what your point is. You go with the weight of evidence. What do you go with?

Here is a question there are 17 heads, why are the majority of them NOT identified as 'African''?

Another question for you can you point to artifacts from Africa associated with the Olmec culture that have been found in excavations?

Here is one last one, from where in Africa did they come and for that time frame, did that society have a robust naval technology?

*In the time frame we are talking about. If you hold we all came out of Africa or that African slaves did come much later.

originally posted by: BigBrotherDarkness
Whats astounding is people have no issues believing the ancients could build huge cities and monoliths with such precision track vast amounts of astrological data, but couldn't accomplish crossing any large body of water on a boat?

Very different technologies and if you have not access to deep ocean travel you tend NOT to develop it.

Seriously, think about it. When coc aine was found in the mummy wrappings and the coca plant is indigenous to South America was all it took for me to know not believe ancients were making oceanic crossings, and not because opps caught in a current off course.

Ah you are behind the times friend, no such thing occurred you need to read what happened after the initial reports

I would think if you landed in a strange land and the existing civilization could empathize with being lost at sea, it would create a trade partnership... as they would need to restock supplies, trade some bubbles they had but didnt need with a promise to return. Even if they didn't speak the same language, a game of charades and a stick in the sand still conveys the same meaning without use of words.

If they were not killed or taken prisoner. Strangers in many cultures were often seen as legitimate prey. If such a trade developed it would leave traces, such traces have not been found. Now some signs of long distance travel do exist, ie the peopling of Madagascar, etc.

a reply to: Hanslune

No need to develop it people have crossed oceans on boats as small as 12 feet long alone, the ancient ships were just as sea worthy.

P.S. thanks for providing links for updated info, some people have busy lives and cannot keep up with everything. c'est la vie

originally posted by: BigBrotherDarkness
a reply to: Hanslune

No need to develop it people have crossed oceans on boats as small as 12 feet long alone, the ancient ships were just as sea worthy.

Yes and they tended to know where they were going, knew how to get back and had vast experience. Notable actions by heroes is one thing doing so on a daily basis is another. For each one who made how many were lost?

People have to develop deep sea technology especially navigation, food and water storage and construction (so the ship doesn't fall apart) ship worms were a major problem for most warm water sailors.

a reply to: Hanslune

My friends mom after her husband died sold everything, bought a 15 foot sail boat never sailed before had no navigation equipment aside from a sextant and made it to europe from the NC coast all by her lonesome just fine, sure it was a very intensive crash course in sailing and she has been sailing around the world now for over 15 years. So if it can be done by a middle aged woman with no sailing experience using the stars as a guide I'm pretty sure ancient professional sailors could do it too. Many friends and family thought she had a death wish and wanted to just kill herself in a quasi legal manner... well she didn't die and has become a very well seasoned sailor. Cheers.

originally posted by: BigBrotherDarkness
a reply to: Hanslune

My friends mom after her husband died sold everything, bought a 15 foot sail boat never sailed before had no navigation equipment aside from a sextant and made it to europe from the NC coast all by her lonesome just fine, sure it was a very intensive crash course in sailing and she has been sailing around the world now for over 15 years. So if it can be done by a middle aged woman with no sailing experience using the stars as a guide I'm pretty sure ancient professional sailors could do it too. Many friends and family thought she had a death wish and wanted to just kill herself in a quasi legal manner... well she didn't die and has become a very well seasoned sailor. Cheers.

Did she build the boat? Nope, Did she know how to navigate - yes and with sextant and the necessary books you can figure out where you are. The boat was designed to be run by one person something they didn't exist in ancient times.

Lets look at it from an ancient point of view, you had to first build a boat, you then had to learn to sail it - big big steps, you then had to figure out how the sea worked, how to provide food and water and figure out how to navigate and unlike your relative, they had no idea where they were (relatively) and no idea where they were going or what they would find there. She was also probably not concerned about sea spirits, sea monsters, angry gods, had a radio to monitor the weather, and was fairly sure she wouldn't be killed and eaten when she arrived in Europe.......lol

a reply to: Hanslune

Enjoy floating on your cognitive dissonance, but it has holes my friend. She took on quite a bit of water on that first trip and almost sank a few times, if her hand operated bilge pump broke or was inferior... and she drowned family and friends would have started holding the silly belief that she was trying to kill herself as fact, when it really wasn't her intent. Might want to be careful holding such polarized views. Believe everything you'll be right half the time, the same can be said about believing nothing.

Oh and on on another note; I'll just leave this here... paulgazis.com...

IIRC, this was discovered to be a fraud several years ago.

I'm not gonna waste the time to go back and find it though, so believe what you want, I guess.

You will anyway, that's for sure.

Harte

originally posted by: BigBrotherDarkness
a reply to: Hanslune

Enjoy floating on your cognitive dissonance, but it has holes my friend. She took on quite a bit of water on that first trip and almost sank a few times, if her hand operated bilge pump broke or was inferior... and she drowned family and friends would have started holding the silly belief that she was trying to kill herself as fact, when it really wasn't her intent. Might want to be careful holding such polarized views. Believe everything you'll be right half the time, the same can be said about believing nothing.

You seem to be unable to separate what we know NOW with what they knew THEN. Very different worlds - it can be difficult to fully understand the previous world when you have no understanding of it.

a reply to: Hanslune


Hanslune

what about the ancient Greek 2,000year old Antikythera Mechanism Device ?

Antikythera Mechanism: Scientists Crack Secrets Of 2,000-year-old Astronomical Computer
Date:
July 31, 2008
www.sciencedaily.com...

Or Those Awesome Navigators called The Norse Men? aka Vikings ? that Landed in Newfoundland ..

L'Anse aux Meadows
en.wikipedia.org...

Evidence of Viking Outpost Found in Canada
Sharpeners may be smoking guns in quest for New World's second Viking site.

news.nationalgeographic.com...

or those So called Ancient Maps that Admiral Piri Reis claimed to Copy from old Ancient thousand of years old Map even in his Day 1518?... claiming that they were Originally from the Library of Alexandria ???

a reply to: Wolfenz

Piri Reis wasn't copied from a 'mysterious map' but instead from a map captured from the Spanish and another probably from the Portuguese.

The Portuguese map shows the dogleg of what was probably an unrecorded exploration down the SA coast, the Spanish is the Caribbean. Europe from existing maps and Africa from earlier Portuguese explorations.

Nope it doesn't say anything about the Library of Alexandria. It does mention Alexander who built Alexander. The info on the Library is a modern thing made up by a fringe writer.

originally posted by: Hanslune

originally posted by: BigBrotherDarkness
Whats astounding is people have no issues believing the ancients could build huge cities and monoliths with such precision track vast amounts of astrological data, but couldn't accomplish crossing any large body of water on a boat?

Very different technologies and if you have not access to deep ocean travel you tend NOT to develop it.

Seriously, think about it. When coc aine was found in the mummy wrappings and the coca plant is indigenous to South America was all it took for me to know not believe ancients were making oceanic crossings, and not because opps caught in a current off course.

Ah you are behind the times friend, no such thing occurred you need to read what happened after the initial reports

I would think if you landed in a strange land and the existing civilization could empathize with being lost at sea, it would create a trade partnership... as they would need to restock supplies, trade some bubbles they had but didnt need with a promise to return. Even if they didn't speak the same language, a game of charades and a stick in the sand still conveys the same meaning without use of words.

If they were not killed or taken prisoner. Strangers in many cultures were often seen as legitimate prey. If such a trade developed it would leave traces, such traces have not been found. Now some signs of long distance travel do exist, ie the peopling of Madagascar, etc.

Playing devils advocate...

Deep ocean travel. Polynesian islands were populated somehow and if I recall Meso American cultures had sail technology with European accounts of seeing their vessels in the deep ocean.

The Egyptian mummy debate is not as dead as many make it out with other academics defending the findings such as S.A wells. Do I think there was a global trade network? No. If there were I think that the large tide of staple crops developed in tte Americas would have been found in the other cultures they supposedly traded with long before the Columbus exchange. Maize and legumes dry/store readily. Such crops would be valuable trade goods. Cotton textiles would also have shown up earlier. Conversely the pottery and mill wheel would have traveled back to Àmerica.

On the olmec heads I honestly don't think they are representative of African features.