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originally posted by: Walsh
The consultancy provided a snapshot representing the readings taken by a radar station located in Russia’s Rostov, near the Ukrainian border, shortly before and about 20 minutes after the MH17 crash.
What this image shows is 20 minutes of recording of the airspace before and after the shooting down of MH17. The course of MH17 is shown in purple while the numerous little blue "T" shaped objects in the circle show the radar return of one or, possibly two, aircraft which either do not have a transponder or which have not switched it on. Either way, since we know that the Novorussian Resistance did not have aircraft, and since we know that the Ukrainians have denied that they had any aircraft anywhere near this area at that time, and since we know that had this been a Russian aircraft the US/NATO AWACS and satellites would have picked it up and presented this damning proof a long time ago we can come to the only possible conclusion: the Ukies and their US/EU patrons are lying, the aircraft seen on the radar are Ukrainian, no Buk missile was involved in the shooting (though I personally believe that one was used to cue the Ukrainian aircraft to MH17) and that MH17 was shot down by a combo of gun and missile fire from one or two Ukrainian aircraft.
Russian Gangsters killed our loved ones say British Families
most people on ATS have never blamed Russia,
it was most likely a case of mistaken identity by people that had poor training on the system, and thought they were shooting at a Ukrainian military plane.
And there are plenty of people blaming the West/NATO/Ukraine too for everything under the sun.
and thought they were shooting at a Ukrainian military plane.
To understand what happened to MH17 we first need to understand the capabilities of the Buk
M1 surface to air missile system. The keyword here is system. The Buk consists of a number
of independent components which operate in unison but which are typically situated at a
distance from one another. The networked components provide medium range defense against
aircraft, cruise, and ballistic missiles. The core system components consist of a primary search
and target acquisition radar, a central command post, and one or more Transport Erector
Launchers with Acquisition Radars which are known by the acronym TELARs.
The US military operates with an annual budget that exceeds the combined budgets of all other military forces worldwide. The US armed forces are awash in money, personnel, and equipment. In addition to overhead imagery available from reconnaissance satellites and from a drone squadron reported to be operating in Ukraine, the US military also fields satellites with infrared detectors as part of the Defense Support Program. These IR sensitive satellites are expressly designed to give immediate warning of any missile launches. These satellites are reported to be sufficiently sensitive that they are able to detect hot spots within forest fires.
The citizens of the world must pay attention to the fact that the US has not provided any reasonable means to assist in the identification of the perpetrators of the MH17 shoot down.
originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
But now we have our brilliant just resigned former Foreign Minister Timmermans making a slip of the tong :
"You know we have found a passenger with an oxygen mask on his mouth, so he had the time to do that"
Minister Bert Koenders fears that in the upcoming weeks the fighting in Eastern Ukraine could intensify. And that would be bad for the place where the wreckage of the MH17 lays, he told tonight in a debate at the Dutch Parliament.
There are pictures taken in the afternoon of july 17 showing a camouflaged BUK TELAR in Torez. That BUK is said to be in the hands of the separartists. Civilians in the nearby village reported that a BUK has fires missiles that afternoon.
The separatists are said to have captured their BUK TELAR after an attack on a Ukrainian airforce base in june. According the the Ukrainian airfoce, the BUK was not operational, but the separatists claimed to have the BUK repaired. It is not clear who coul dhave provided the crew for the BUK, because operating such complex weapon-system is no that easy. It requires training and practise of a whole team.
It is confirmed by various pictures taken in the days before the crash, that there was at least 1 BUK TELAR in the surroundings of Torez.
According to a Facebook message of an advisor of the Ukrainian minister of interal affairs, the separatists would have transported a BUK TELAR over the Russian border in the night of july 17 and 18. In the early hours of that friday-morning, Ukrainian intelligence is said to have taken a video of a TELAR on a trailer on the main road near the city of Krasnodon, between Torez and the Russian border. The TELAR would have missing at least 1 missile in the launcher-system.
Having operated and maintained Russian SAM systems, I can guarantee that if you just want to shot down an aircraft at high altitude with any of their high end systems without worrying about what you are shooting at in a non ECM environment they are very easy pieces of equipment to operate. The Buk is not a new piece of kit (its been kicking around for 30 years) and was widely used by the Soviet Union before 1991 and in Russia and Ukraine afterwards. The system were designed to be operated by conscripted / reservist crews and thus are fitted with a high level of automation (to shot anything down with one of these systems all you have to do is get the system's tracking radar 'on target' and press the fire button as soon as a 'Target in engagement zone' indication comes up and the system will do everything else. While the equipment was also designed for rapid replacement of defective equipment which is very modular in nature and like most Russian equipment is built like a brick sh!thouse. Due to the fact that it was operated by conscripts for best part of 30 years, there will be a sizable pool of people in eastern Ukraine (rebels) who will be able to operate it and most likely a number of ex warrant officers or extended servicemen who where the personnel would normally fixed the things who would be able to maintain it. The main question I would ask is where did the missile system come from! Was it taken across the Russian border by the
Russians (or from the Crimea) or was it captured by the rebels from Ukraine stocks in the disputed region.
Most of those consoles on that kit are system status indicators, if they are green you're good to go. The rest are controls for the displays and signal processing system for the radars or manual overrides to allow the system to be operated in the face of ECM or minor equipment system failures. If any of those systems break, you will need an experienced technician to fix them and if you're operating with friendly air forces and in an ECM environment experienced operators are a must, however the actual engagement sequence of this system from the layout of the kit is very likely to be very similar to that of most other Russian mobile SAM systems as they are all heavily automated. To engage a target once the system is fully run up, three or four actions by the man of the left after he has picked up the target on the search radar, three or four by the guy on the right hand console, missile away. Seeing that the kit has been kicking around since the mid 1980's it is very likely that there are plenty of ex Soviet / Russian / Ukrainian armed forces personnel about on the rebel side who could operate this system to a standard that would allow an aircraft at 33,000 ft to be engaged. The question is where did the missile system come from?