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THIS JUST IN : New radar data indicates other jets on MH17 course before crash

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posted on Nov, 14 2014 @ 12:59 AM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Except it's not. There are no air to air weapons that would cause an instantaneous breakup of the aircraft, with no plane being seen on radar anywhere near the 777 either before or after the shoot down occurred. The evidence for a SAM far outweighs the evidence of an air to air shoot down, even if you say it's a lack of evidence.

A SAM has a warhead that weighs several hundred pounds, and is designed to do the most possible damage to any target that it is fired at. It would cause enough damage to cause an immediate breakup of an aircraft the size of a 777, where an air to air missile, even hitting near the nose wouldn't. Even if the pilots were killed instantly by an air to air missile, the plane would have kept flying out of control from the damage. That didn't happen. One second the aircraft was flying normally, the next it was in pieces heading for the ground.

An air to air shoot down is a possibility, but it's so remote a possibility that it's not funny.




posted on Nov, 14 2014 @ 01:02 AM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

Alright, stupid they name it MH17 then and western media even showed it in their news channels.

Still in this video you can see it exploding on the ground and of course debris goes everywhere when it explodes on the ground.
Also when it goes down nose down, pieces will fall off before hitting the ground, causing structural failures (due to high speed) so that doesn't say that much.


edit on 14-11-2014 by Plugin because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 14 2014 @ 01:05 AM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien



but nothing has been shown





Nothing is a pronoun denoting the absence of anything. Nothing is a pronoun associated with nothingness. In nontechnical uses, nothing denotes things lacking importance, interest, value, relevance, or significance. Nothingness is the state of being nothing, the state of nonexistence of anything, or the property of having nothing.



posted on Nov, 14 2014 @ 01:14 AM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

You will be in for a big surprise...

This is what an expert says about what happens with a BUK missile :



- Shrapnel-based SA-11 missile, known as a Grizzly, will have 'shredded' the plane on impact, expert says

- Will have perforated wings, engines, fuel tanks, and highly-pressurised cabin, which will have exploded 'instantly'

- Passengers will have been 'oblivious' to hit, claims Justin Bronk, aircraft expert at Royal United Services Institute


Source

But now we have our brilliant just resigned former Foreign Minister Timmermans making a slip of the tong :

"You know we have found a passenger with an oxygen mask on his mouth, so he had the time to do that"

This was huge news in The Netherlands and has been confirmed afterwards because of this by the Dutch government as being true.

Still so sure it was a BUK ?









edit on 14 11 2014 by BornAgainAlien because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 14 2014 @ 01:20 AM
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a reply to: Plugin

Right, because we all know the media NEVER makes mistakes, and if they posted it, then it's GOT to be true!

And again, if it comes apart while in a dive, the debris all ends up in a neat, small area. The ONLY way that large pieces are covering five plus miles is if the aircraft broke apart in flight, at high altitude. It's simple physics. Anything that breaks apart near the ground is going to end up covering a small area, due to the time between it breaking apart, and the time it hits the ground. The ONLY way that debris ends up covering a large area is a high altitude break apart.

USAir 427 dove straight into the ground and exploded. Small debris was found as far as two miles from the impact site, but all the large debris was found in the immediate area of where it hit the ground. The main debris field covered 300 yards, and no piece of debris left was larger than a car door.

PanAm 103 on the other hand exploded in midair at high altitude, and left a debris field that covered miles underneath the flight path of the aircraft. The total debris field including light debris covered something like 845 square miles in total.

There is no way to get around it, no matter how hard you try. This aircraft exploded at high altitude. The debris field is proof of that, no matter how many videos you post that supposedly show the plane on fire and intact.



posted on Nov, 14 2014 @ 01:22 AM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Old news. That was announced a month or more ago. Portions of the cabin remained intact as it fell, and not every passenger would have been killed instantly. The oxygen masks could have easily fallen due to damage to the overhead where they're stored.

Yes, I'm still convinced that it was a SAM. It may or may not have been a BUK, but it was a SAM, not an air to air attack.



posted on Nov, 14 2014 @ 01:25 AM
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a reply to: Plugin

The debris field:



Pieces of the under-wing pod that holds the right Rolls-Royce Trent 800 engine were found nearly 4.7 miles from Hrabove, where both engines were found.


Map of a Tragedy: How MH17 Came Apart Over Ukraine



posted on Nov, 14 2014 @ 01:27 AM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

what? of course not but if western media say it's sam missile then it's GOT to be true??

So when pieces of the wing fall off due structural damage they all fly straight down?? the wind doesn't carry them far away?? It was flying very high, pieces most likely would break up when the plane is still pretty high, not near the ground so again pieces surely can go very far then carried by the wind, whirling where it likes.

And that other video isn't the MH17 either? where it explodes on the ground?
You have proof for that?



posted on Nov, 14 2014 @ 01:31 AM
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originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Old news. That was announced a month or more ago. Portions of the cabin remained intact as it fell, and not every passenger would have been killed instantly. The oxygen masks could have easily fallen due to damage to the overhead where they're stored.

Yes, I'm still convinced that it was a SAM. It may or may not have been a BUK, but it was a SAM, not an air to air attack.


It was actually around his neck...

...and how likely you think that is, "an oxygen masks who falls around someones neck in such a situation ?"



posted on Nov, 14 2014 @ 01:39 AM
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a reply to: Plugin

When they say it's a SAM, and the evidence fits a SAM, then yes, it almost certainly was a SAM.

Do you even BEGIN to understand how much some of those parts weigh? We're not talking about small pieces of aircraft that are going to float, we're talking about the main structure of the aircraft. These are extremely heavy pieces of aircraft, that no amount of wind is going to keep airborne, no matter how hard it is blowing.

Did you even LOOK at the debris map that I linked? Huge pieces of cabin were found five miles from other large pieces of aircraft. The entire center portion of the aircraft, including both engines, was found over four miles from where the tail and other portions of the after part of the plane was found. This isn't a case of pieces falling off as it's flying, this is a case of the entire aircraft separating into pieces and falling far from other portions of it.

As a matter of fact yes. Notice the date that this blog was posted. June 6th 2014. The second video is the exact same one that you posted. Over a month PRIOR to MH17 crashing.

Uploaded June 6th 2014, with audio from the crew:



Uploaded June 6th:



In fact, here, all of those videos were uploaded June 6th, over a month prior to MH17 being shot down.



posted on Nov, 14 2014 @ 01:41 AM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Did you even read what I said?

Here, let me say it again, and even bold it for you, to make sure that you see it.

Not every passenger would have been killed instantly. That means that some passengers would have still been alive when the aircraft broke up, and put the oxygen on their neck, attempting to stay alive.



posted on Nov, 14 2014 @ 01:49 AM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

The second video I posted isn't even similar.
It's cloudy, and you don't see the plane, only the explosion when hitting the ground, the landscape is also different, no green trees etc.



posted on Nov, 14 2014 @ 01:59 AM
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a reply to: Plugin

THAT video WAS some of the MH17 debris hitting the ground. But it still wasn't the entire aircraft at once. The aircraft was already in pieces by that point. But the first video you posted wasn't MH17. No matter how hard you try, it's a fact that the aircraft disintegrated in flight. The report released already states that, and the debris field backs it up.


A Malaysian Airways passenger jet destroyed over the Ukraine conflict zone was hit by multiple high-velocity objects and broke up in the air, according to a Dutch interim report into its destruction



According to the report, pieces of aircraft structure were found over a large area - indicating it broke up in the air.

www.aljazeera.com...


Dutch Safety Commission concluded Malaysian plane carrying 298 people exploded in mid-air due to external impacts from high velocity objects, there is no indication that any technical fault or pilot aircraft .

www.bitlanders.com...



posted on Nov, 14 2014 @ 02:14 AM
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a reply to: Zaphod58



Yes, I'm still convinced that it was a SAM



The damage evident from debris field images does not match the damage expected to be caused by a missile impact from directly ahead, or from slightly to port.


MH17Analysis Parts 1 and 2.pdf


We can plot this data and begin to develop an understanding of what must have occurred. The debris field outside Hrabove is aligned along a track of 090 degrees. This is a significant deviation from MH17s last reported course of 118 degrees. We can extended this 090 degree track to the west until it intersects with MH17's course at a point 50 km from the Russian border. This point is near the likely point of catastrophic failure of the aircraft and its systems. These combined tracks are shown in Image 2.



These Facebook screen shots point to direct involvement by Kiev personnel. acloserlookonsyria.shoutwiki.com... Update on this link. voicesevas.ru...

Svyatoslav Oliynyk 21:22

Forget it. What’s there? And how?

Yury Bereza 21:23

land - direct - air

Svyatoslav Oliynyk 21:24

What the #ing air???

Yury Bereza 21:26

They reported that he couldn't hold there for long, as if it was high. Made one direct. Failed. Had to make air.


Filtering out links with regards to Ukraine and downed passenger plane MH17 from July 2014 to August 16 2014



posted on Nov, 14 2014 @ 02:17 AM
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a reply to: maghun

Your first link doesn't work, as it's a no-link. And Facebook? Really? When did Facebook become a serious investigation tool? I rank that right up there with Twitter.

I found a copy and skimmed through it, and it hits just about every point that has been gone over repeatedly here. The flight wasn't off course, they were routed around traffic ahead of them, and were going to be turned back to their next waypoint once they were clear. That's clear from the ATC transcripts. As for wing damage, we haven't seen all of the debris, but there is clear damage to the wing that we've seen, consistent with shrapnel.

I have yet to see credible evidence of anything but a SAM, and haven't seen a shred of evidence that it was a 30mm canon.
edit on 11/14/2014 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 14 2014 @ 02:27 AM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

"Nolink" is mediafire dot com


Made one direct. Failed. Had to make air.



If this is to be believed, 'land' is surface-to air missile (=Buk), 'direct' is machine gun/automatic gun, and air = air -to air (missile). (Curiously, 'land' mentioned but not further discussed). But Facebook posts are easy to verify or falsify, and Berkut no longer having this material suggests that this Facebook 'intercept' is withdrawn. (Still something along those lines, perhaps not exactly as presented, still could have happened; short on some proofs, a info-warfare demo version/visualization was developed


The Cyber-Berkut guys are good in hacking:


About 2 months ago Zorin, the main culprit of 300 passengers' death, has already obtained facts about guiltiness of his subordinates. It seems that he provides himself with a justification base, on "5 channel" Nalivaichenko tells that Boeing is shoot down by Russian "Buk" missile system. In materials we have uncovered there are photographs of the missile attack elements, founded in aircraft fragments on crash site.


cyber-berkut.org...



posted on Nov, 14 2014 @ 02:30 AM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien




Only thing we have got is really questionable evidence form the Ukraine and Belingcat.


Really questionable because neither you nor any other pro Russian backer can refute it.



posted on Nov, 14 2014 @ 02:31 AM
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a reply to: maghun

So what, they hacked Facebook and took it down? Or put it up? It's still Facebook, which means utterly useless as an investigative tool.



posted on Nov, 14 2014 @ 02:52 AM
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a reply to: Zaphod58




So what, they hacked Facebook and took it down? Or put it up? It's still Facebook, which means utterly useless as an investigative tool.



Except when a pro Russian backer want's to use it for useless, baseless, and sometimes made up evidence it isn't.

Facebook the last bastion of truth.

In fact remember when the separatists used social media for their errant attack on MH17 and thought it was a Ukranian military transport, when it was reported all we saw was it was fake because it was on social media yet now social media is where the truth comes from for pro RUssian backers...amazing to me how thew rules change when it comes to the truth and what is on social media such as facebook concerning MH17.



posted on Nov, 14 2014 @ 03:06 AM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h

People always takes sides, it's not that i'm pro ''russian'' rebels, I'm just against any warmongering.

Our current (western) leaders are just crazy IMO, starting wars, sanctioning country's as they please to get their way, creating chaos in the middle east and acting like they are better.
The NATO was set up against Russia basicly, and NATO is expanding for a long time, not showing respect to Russia.
Placing a rocket shield in neighbouring country's (poland etc), of course Russia is going a bit mad.
Seems the west is trying to control the world, resources but only chaos is result it seems.

I have seen the first cold war, this is just another (childish) power game where they only make things worse, scaring people/children.
It's easy to get Russia behave as they are now, they just recovered from the first cold war basicly and they surely know they can never win with a regular war, only option really is full scale nuclear, that's why it's kinda odd our leaders just go on with tougher actions knowing Russia would never give 1 inch.. still doing so making things far more dangerous/unknown for the future.
It's basicly the only country that could wipe the US with a full scale Nuclear war, maybe they could get to that point this time when their economy goes down again, the first time they accepted their loss and started over, this time may be another story. Putin surely loves his country a bit 2 much...




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