Jessie Ventura: "Military Doesn't Fight for our Freedom

a reply to: yeahright

Well I have heard both versions. I am assuming Kyle was telling the truth and Jesse is butt hurt. Actually I always liked Ventura he is a stand up guy that don't take no bull, and if he ran for POTUS id support him. Still though, Kyle claimed to KO a celebrity. So what, and for his wife to have to pay is ridiculous. I do not see why Kyles estate should have to pay when the man is dead. Punishing his wife and family for something he said in a book. I have heard Kyle was a huge a-hole in real life too. But still It really is a b1tc# move. So much for free speech because that is defamation now.

defamation has always been illegal. And I'm sure you wouldn't want someone going around defaming you either, right?

linea segundo.

a reply to: MarkJS

Actually I have been defamed before, but the fact the the man is dead and to collect from his widow is just as wrong if not worse. Like most people will throw Jesse Ventura under the bus and refuse to buy his book's because he got in a fight with a younger man that got the best of him (allegedly) . Heck the only reason I heard about it and id bet most people know about it is because of the law suit had he never sued it would not be news. Jesse made a big stink over peanuts.

Or maybe he is just about monetary gain , with a dead mans money.

originally posted by: AgentShillington
I don't often agree with Jesse Ventura, but he is right about the military being used as a publicly funded security force for Corporate interests.

We haven't fought for the American people's protection in 70 years.

Exactly. Virtually none of these wars probably since WWII can be seen to represent true national defense or security, unless we redefine security to mean neo-colonialism, the search for global hegemony, and oppressing other peoples. I was hesitant this Veteran's Day to even support anything people posted or said, as I can't really clap or support these wars anymore. I know that people will say " but support the troops." I get that. I have plenty of veteran friends. But at the same time, that argument doesn't really work if our military and government are committing evil abroad and illegal wars.

Here is an extreme to demonstrate.

1) German protester: "Hitler should never have invaded Poland and Russia nor should his regime have killed people in concentration camps."

2) Nazi: "But why don't you support those poor SS troops?"

Sometimes we have to show other situations and extremes do demonstrate how ridiculous things are.

A standing army to disincentivize attack on us is one thing.

But the US government has been sending our military to fight NOT just for that. As you said, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, etc. So then those troops are "not fighting for our security," given the conflicts that they are veterans of, for the most part.

originally posted by: Jainine

Jessie Ventura: "Military Doesn't Fight for our Freedom"

The fact that we have a strong and well armed military is what is keeping us free. If we dissolved our military then we'd be overran very quickly. Other countries and entities would love to have our wheat fields of Kansas; our fishing waters; our off shore oil as well as our untapped onshore oil. So the fact that someone is willing to sign up and be trained and ready to fight for us means that they are there for our freedom. That should never be taken away from the active duty and veterans.

However, the politicians have misused and abused our military. There is no reason for our National Guard troops to be sent overseas. There is no reason for our troops to be active in Iraq or Afghanistan and we certainly shouldn't have bombed Libya, etc etc.

So I both agree and disagree with Mr. Ventura on this.

originally posted by: Spruce
They don't fight for our freedom anymore. They fight for everyone BUT us. Afghanistan and Iraq were about freedom for those countries, not us. None of the wars we've fought in recent decades were about us.

Not true. With all due respect, virtually all of our wars have been ALL about US empire, power, geo-political control and chess, etc. It's ALL about US superpower and dominance. It's not at all truly for the freedom of Afghanis nor Iraq. That is just the lie that they tell you to put an ethical veneer on their geo-political power moves.

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

I hope someone tells the left that...up to the Millenium we believed most of what was said,now the deceit is clear and RAMPANT.
The conspiracies we used to suspect are sometimes now proven as facts.

Um,,, the left was saying this in like the 1930's.... and ever since. The conservatives seem to have just caught up in the last two decades or so on the insidious nature of the military-industrial complex and our wars. Remember, the left, not the right, was talking about the Military Industrial Complex in the 60's. It was the LEFT who was protesting the Vietnam War.

originally posted by: AgentShillington

originally posted by: amicktd
The problem is politicians and corporations. Not the military personnel. Guess who puts the politicians in power, which in turn gets bought out by the corporations? So really, the root cause of the problem is the American people.

Thank you for not turning this thread into another bash the military personnel OP.

The military personnel aren't innocent in this situation. I understand conscription, and have no problem with those forced to fight, but if you are volunteering for a military that you know is being used to be a publicly funded group of cleaners making sure everything is ready for corporate takeover, then you are more responsible than many here would like to admit.

Exactly.

Now, there are some brainwashed kids that join the military and are brainwashed to believe they are fighting for good. But people also have a responsibility to educate themselves, especially in regards to war or violence. And, the excuse "I wanted to go to college or see the world" or whatever is hardly a justification when the military you are in is invading countries, killing 1000's of people, and manipulating half of the world.

The argument " I was just following orders" was judged to be inadmissable during the Nuremberg Trials. That's what a bunch of Nazi soldiers said.

originally posted by: AuranVector
AuranVector: My argument is not circular. It takes an enormous amount of money to win a presidential election. For that simple reason, a candidate cannot win who is NOT supported by the Elites. The Elites own the banks, the mega corporations, the high-ranking bureaucrats of the various agencies, the politicians, the media (Fox is owned by an Obama supporter, Rupert Murdoch), etc.

The only reason a non-Dem or non-GOP presidential candidate hasn't won is because he has NOT been sold to the public thru the Elite-owned media.

You are entitled to your opinion, but you aren't entitled to state your opinion as fact.

What I said is fact. What you said is opinion.

AuranVector: The "Green" movement was hijacked by the Elites more than 25 years ago for their own purposes. Who doesn't want to save the environment? Unfortunately, the Carbon Tax does NOTHING to save the environment. The "Green" manifesto is just a variation of the old "Progressive" agenda promoting a "social justice" that is anything but just. The "Green Agenda" is designed to seduce the young and/or naive.

Don't the mistake the term "Green" for the political party named The Green Party. It's a common one, but one that is easily fixed.

1. GRASSROOTS DEMOCRACY
Every human being deserves a say in the decisions that affect their lives and not be subject to the will of another.
2. SOCIAL JUSTICE AND EQUAL OPPORTUNITY
All persons should have the rights and opportunity to benefit equally from the resources afforded us by society and the environment.
3. ECOLOGICAL WISDOM
Human societies must operate with the understanding that we are part of nature, not separate from nature.
4. NON-VIOLENCE
It is essential that we develop effective alternatives to society's current patterns of violence.
5. DECENTRALIZATION
Centralization of wealth and power contributes to social and economic injustice, environmental destruction, and militarization.
6. COMMUNITY-BASED ECONOMICS AND ECONOMIC JUSTICE
We recognize it is essential to create a vibrant and sustainable economic system, one that can create jobs and provide a decent standard of living for all people while maintaining a healthy ecological balance.
7. FEMINISM AND GENDER EQUITY
We have inherited a social system based on male domination of politics and economics. We call for the replacement of the cultural ethics of domination and control with more cooperative ways of interacting that respect differences of opinion and gender. Human values such as equity between the sexes, interpersonal responsibility, and honesty must be developed with moral conscience. We should remember that the process that determines our decisions and actions is just as important as achieving the outcome we want.
8. RESPECT FOR DIVERSITY
We believe it is important to value cultural, ethnic, racial, sexual, religious and spiritual diversity, and to promote the development of respectful relationships across these lines.
9. PERSONAL AND GLOBAL RESPONSIBILITY
We encourage individuals to act to improve their personal well-being and, at the same time, to enhance ecological balance and social harmony. We seek to join with people and organizations around the world to foster peace, economic justice, and the health of the planet.

10. FUTURE FOCUS AND SUSTAINABILITY
Our actions and policies should be motivated by long-term goals. We seek to protect valuable natural resources, safely disposing of or "unmaking" all waste we create, while developing a sustainable economics that does not depend on continual expansion for survival. We must counterbalance the drive for short-term profits by assuring that economic development, new technologies, and fiscal policies are responsible to future generations who will inherit the results of our actions.

AuranVector: A truly independent presidential candidate would be destroyed -- one way or another. The last candidate I believed in was Ross Perot and the mainstream media turned him into a national laughingstock. Perot finally left the race when his family became the target.

TPTB will choose the two presidential candidates who have any real chance of carrying the nation. You can bet TPTB own both of them. They own the media. We get to choose between Bad & Worse. Or we can throw our votes away on someone who CANNOT win. Or we can stay at home to pout.

AgentShillington: The only vote that is thrown away is the one not cast. You can choose to vote for the lesser of two evils, but I won't knowing vote for evil anymore.



AuranVector: Then you will let the greater evil win.

Edited for clarity.

originally posted by: jrod
a reply to: AgentShillington

The vast majority who serve join in their teens and early twenties. At that age, they all are a bit naive and impressionable. I have nothing against recruiters, they are simply doing their job. I write this and I even have somewhat of idea of the training they are given to help persuade qualified young men and women into signing up. Most of them become recruiters simply because they are sociable and love talking to others.

The military is full of decent jobs, and in my opinion there are far worse corporations a person can find themselves working for. Many wake up to the reality that the military is not in the middle east and elsewhere to 'keep us safe', many more do not. They say ignorance is bliss.

I agree with you that most people really are ignorant or lied to going into the military. Some 18 year old kid who is lied to be the media isn't purposefully going off to war to build US empire or protect corporate interests.

Having said that, the military, by invading countries, toppling regimes, killing or causing the deaths of countless people, and controlling whole regions is by far worse than most random companies. And "decent jobs" isn't really a good argument when the job includes killing people, war, and all that. There has to be a higher standard. Frankly, if someone DOES know what is going on and joins or continues past their contract (if they had found out later), to me they are an evil person and worthy of no respect.

originally posted by: AgentShillington

originally posted by: AuranVector
AuranVector: My argument is not circular. It takes an enormous amount of money to win a presidential election. For that simple reason, a candidate cannot win who is NOT supported by the Elites. The Elites own the banks, the mega corporations, the high-ranking bureaucrats of the various agencies, the politicians, the media (Fox is owned by an Obama supporter, Rupert Murdoch), etc.

The only reason a non-Dem or non-GOP presidential candidate hasn't won is because he has NOT been sold to the public thru the Elite-owned media.

You are entitled to your opinion, but you aren't entitled to state your opinion as fact.

What I said is fact. What you said is opinion.

AuranVector: The "Green" movement was hijacked by the Elites more than 25 years ago for their own purposes. Who doesn't want to save the environment? Unfortunately, the Carbon Tax does NOTHING to save the environment. The "Green" manifesto is just a variation of the old "Progressive" agenda promoting a "social justice" that is anything but just. The "Green Agenda" is designed to seduce the young and/or naive.

Don't the mistake the term "Green" for the political party named The Green Party. It's a common one, but one that is easily fixed.

1. GRASSROOTS DEMOCRACY
Every human being deserves a say in the decisions that affect their lives and not be subject to the will of another.
2. SOCIAL JUSTICE AND EQUAL OPPORTUNITY
All persons should have the rights and opportunity to benefit equally from the resources afforded us by society and the environment.
3. ECOLOGICAL WISDOM
Human societies must operate with the understanding that we are part of nature, not separate from nature.
4. NON-VIOLENCE
It is essential that we develop effective alternatives to society's current patterns of violence.
5. DECENTRALIZATION
Centralization of wealth and power contributes to social and economic injustice, environmental destruction, and militarization.
6. COMMUNITY-BASED ECONOMICS AND ECONOMIC JUSTICE
We recognize it is essential to create a vibrant and sustainable economic system, one that can create jobs and provide a decent standard of living for all people while maintaining a healthy ecological balance.
7. FEMINISM AND GENDER EQUITY
We have inherited a social system based on male domination of politics and economics. We call for the replacement of the cultural ethics of domination and control with more cooperative ways of interacting that respect differences of opinion and gender. Human values such as equity between the sexes, interpersonal responsibility, and honesty must be developed with moral conscience. We should remember that the process that determines our decisions and actions is just as important as achieving the outcome we want.
8. RESPECT FOR DIVERSITY
We believe it is important to value cultural, ethnic, racial, sexual, religious and spiritual diversity, and to promote the development of respectful relationships across these lines.
9. PERSONAL AND GLOBAL RESPONSIBILITY
We encourage individuals to act to improve their personal well-being and, at the same time, to enhance ecological balance and social harmony. We seek to join with people and organizations around the world to foster peace, economic justice, and the health of the planet.

10. FUTURE FOCUS AND SUSTAINABILITY
Our actions and policies should be motivated by long-term goals. We seek to protect valuable natural resources, safely disposing of or "unmaking" all waste we create, while developing a sustainable economics that does not depend on continual expansion for survival. We must counterbalance the drive for short-term profits by assuring that economic development, new technologies, and fiscal policies are responsible to future generations who will inherit the results of our actions.

AuranVector: A truly independent presidential candidate would be destroyed -- one way or another. The last candidate I believed in was Ross Perot and the mainstream media turned him into a national laughingstock. Perot finally left the race when his family became the target.

TPTB will choose the two presidential candidates who have any real chance of carrying the nation. You can bet TPTB own both of them. They own the media. We get to choose between Bad & Worse. Or we can throw our votes away on someone who CANNOT win. Or we can stay at home to pout.

AgentShillington: The only vote that is thrown away is the one not cast. You can choose to vote for the lesser of two evils, but I won't knowing vote for evil anymore.

AuranVector: Then you will let the greater evil win.

Edited for clarity.

I agree that you will not get elected unless you are supported by the elite and media.

Having said that, I am all for the Green Party's platform.

originally posted by: AgentShillington

originally posted by: jrod
a reply to: AgentShillington

I have nothing against recruiters, they are simply doing their job.

The Greatest Crimes Against Humanity Are Perpetrated by People Just Doing Their Jobs

The greatest crimes of human history are made possible by the most colorless human beings. They are the careerists. The bureaucrats. The cynics. They do the little chores that make vast, complicated systems of exploitation and death a reality. They collect and read the personal data gathered on tens of millions of us by the security and surveillance state. They keep the accounts of ExxonMobil, BP and Goldman Sachs. They build or pilot aerial drones. They work in corporate advertising and public relations. They issue the forms. They process the papers. They deny food stamps to some and unemployment benefits or medical coverage to others. They enforce the laws and the regulations. And they do not ask questions.

truth-out.org...

That's not an excuse.

Exactly, "just doing their jobs" is no excuse, provided of course they come to know what is really going on in the world. After WWII during the Nuremberg Trials the argument "they were just doing their jobs" was not admitted as a viable defense.

Here is the thing folks, soldiers have to be held accountable for their actions. So do other people, as it should be. Being told to kill/bomb/torture someone OR support it through some supporting role such as supply chain or bureaucracy in no way, shape, or form exonerates the person from their personal responsibility not to commit wrong.

originally posted by: corvuscorrax

originally posted by: AgentShillington

originally posted by: amicktd
What makes you think kids are joining just to push corporations interests and not for something else entirely?

Joining just to push corporations interests?

I don't believe I've ever made that claim, and I don't make that claim. What I've said, time and time again, is that some people are making the decision to join the military knowing that they are being used as corporate security and don't care that it is happening.

How do I know this? Because I have had people tell me that the reasons we are fighting are less important to them than getting paid to do so. Not only that, we then have private security contractors comprised of former military personnel doing the same jobs, without the pretense of patriotism.

Don't misunderstand me. I'm not "blaming" the military. Our current military is a symptom of a bigger problem. I blame individuals making individual choices. If you join the military for a paycheck, you're part of the problem.

Pretty much this. With the lack of money making opportunities for young people out of high school the military can seem like the only option for many of them. They don't care what the repercussions are they just want an avenue that will provide them with pay and benefits now and qualifications later so they can either build or provide for a family.

But Agent is correct, that is not a valid excuse for those who know the "good ol' freedom fighting do-goodin' USA" is a lie. It doesn't matter if they are having trouble finding a job. If that job means supporting evil and murder on a global scale, it's unacceptable.

a reply to: AgentShillington

You make a statement and then hold it hostage with a "No True Scotsman" fallacy. The only reason a non-Dem or non-GOP hasn't won is because people aren't voting for them. That's it. That's the reason.

Your statement bears repeating. I agree. Repeating the attitude that a 3rd party vote is a useless vote is the source of the problem. Thank you for your post.

Pack it in boys, and grab your choice suicide methods, because regardless of whats real or not, no one here will change anything. Just speculate.

There is no two party system, the military doesn't fight for our freedom, there's fluoride and god knows what else in our water, and GMO foods.

The whole game is rigged, every single person who goes to Washington comes back corrupt, and no leader in the world is elected by votes.

The world is always at war for money, everyone lies to us for money, and only we know the truth, though we make money off of that truth ( JV, AJ, and now NLBS,which I think wants to be like InfoWars) all the same.

I could keep going, but its all rather depressing. So seriously, why are we all still around? There is obviously no hope because no god of any kind exists, so what is there to look forward to? A world where anyone and anything is out to get you in some way? Screw it. Like I said, grab your choice of suicide method, because nothing will change and no one here will do anything about it. But the silver lining is that all the evil people will have an empire of dirt when everyone's gone. So that's a win right?

originally posted by: AgentShillington



You seem to have misunderstood me, and I feel the problem was my very long sentence.

"The military personnel aren't innocent in this situation. I understand conscription, and have no problem with those forced to fight, but if you are volunteering for a military that you know is being used to be a publicly funded group of cleaners making sure everything is ready for corporate takeover, then you are more responsible than many here would like to admit."

I'm not blasting all service members. I have service members in my family, and I don't believe they are evil. In fact, many of those folks that aren't aware of what is actually happening find out too late and are devastated by what they find.

However, there is a certain section of the military that I have absolutely no tolerance or respect for.

Recruiters.

They know what it's like and misrepresent what is going on to further add to the ranks. Completely disgusting individuals. No excuses.

\

Agent makes a good Point.
Keyword "knowingly"

I joined the military with the naive assumption of serving my country when all I was serving was the monetary interests of a bunch of Psychopaths. I remember listening to God Bless America and other songs they would play along the same line and thought how great it was to be doing what I was doing. It was all brainwashing propaganda because I cannot recall anytime in service when I was protecting our "Freedoms". If anything, Politicians along with Corporate and Banking Lobbyists were yanking away my Freedoms as I was fighting.

originally posted by: maghun
a reply to: Spruce

Afghanistan and Iraq were about freedom for those countries, not us.

Really? "Reason" for Afghanistan:

I heard that the Taliban were opposed to growing Opium and curtailed its use as a crop significantly...until we came in that is. The Taliban were harsh to those farmers growing Opium. Opium was a big crash crop for Afghan Farmers.

Not long after we invaded, Opium Farming shot up.
Now, I wont say that we intentionally encouraged them to grow Opium, but considering our "war on drugs" it seems pretty hypocritical either way to turn a blind eye to it in Afghanistan.

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
General Butler realized the truth at the end of his long distinguished time in the services

I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902–1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.

If you don't believe him and Eisenhower, quoted earlier, consider the possibility of being blinded by propaganda that has led to patriotic cognitive dissonance.

Butler Bares All in #WhiteHouse #Coup! #Illuminati Bankstas!
www.youtube.com...

( What is Butler is Talking about ? The Elite Wanted Butler Against the Bonus Army )

The Fascist Plot to Overthrow FDR (FULL Documentary)
www.youtube.com...

In 1933, Retired Marine Corps Major General Smedley Butler was approached by wealthy industrialists and bankers who were plotting to create a fascist veterans organization called the "American Liberty League" and use it in a coup d'état to overthrow President Franklin D. Roosevelt, with Butler as leader of that organization. In 1934 Butler testified to the McCormack--Dickstein Congressional committee on these claims. In the opinion of the committee, these allegations were credible. One of the purported plotters, Gerald MacGuire, vehemently denied any such plot. In their report, the Congressional committee stated that it was able to confirm Butler's statements other than the proposal from MacGuire which it considered more or less confirmed by MacGuire's European reports. No one was prosecuted. Marine Corps Maj.-Gen. Smedley Butler was approached by a wealthy and secretive group of industrialists and bankers, including Prescott Bush (George W. Bush's grandfather) who asked him to command a 500,000 strong rogue army of veterans that would help stage a coup to topple then President Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

War Is A Racket
www.youtube.com...

Ron Paul speaking about Smedley Butler's War is a Racket which is available at lexrex.com. Also includes The War Prayer by Mark Twain and Frederick Bastiat's, The Law!

Major General Smedley Butler & The Fascist Takeover Of The USA - A Warning From History

I understand the value of the militari unit in a country. Many virtues such as discipline, teamwork and responsability are taught. However, lile a weapon can be used to humt for survival, these virtues are standing in a deep shadow casted on what was sometging noble.

The ideals are still there...on paper. The reality is applied towards conquest and acquisition of material goods. The sense has been lost and the end goals are cloaked with these old ideals which are repeated lile the chorus of a catchy song. Using our weakness as leverage to condition us into conforming.

Those who are still hypnotized need to look at who are suffering in the end; the innocent. The few who are resposible punish the masses. We change our ways because a very small portion pose horrific acts. We are adapting to their ways and we are bending to their will. We are not fighting we are dansing with them. We will dance till the ballroom is empty while the record skips.

We are becoming them in order to beat them. Attrocious act after attrocious act beggets attrocities. We are trying the same thing over and over expecting a different result: insanity. We should stand our ground as peace warriors and not as war warriors. Turn the other cheek leads to what? Weakness? The basic principles of every religion ARE not being applied. We know the way of peace, but we are listening to the wrong leaders and letting our emotions guide are sinful ways. The rules are simple yet nobody is following them.

originally posted by: Merinda
Military has been fighting for the petrodollar mostly for the past 40 years. Thats 2000 billion worth of currency America gets each year from the world for the privilege of paying for their oil plus the power that comes with controlling access to most energy.

Why shouldnt soldiers feel good about themselves fighting for something very real and tangible that benefits their country and the countries America extends aid to? After all if you deduct the 700 billion military spending, foreign aid to most of the middle east and other foreign aid that money is gone pretty fast.

That is all well and good if all Americans equally benefited, but the current policy favors the wealthy top 1% and above a 1000 fold based on the increasing Soviet Union Style Government Owned inequality and as we have heard many times over and over from Corporate and Banking Propagandists, you are own your own while they reap the rewards from said policies.