The Universe

originally posted by: Yeahkeepwatchingme
a reply to: Soloprotocol

Or maybe we intersect with other universes and this is what we perceive as aliens, ghosts and the like.

Maybe, another theory, but i believe being inside a balloon when it burst might just ruin your day and or your pants.

a reply to: Soloprotocol

When the balloon bursts, we're so small compared to the size of the universe we probably wouldn't even know what happened.

Here one second gone in the next 1 trillionth of a second.

originally posted by: Quantum_Squirrel
didnt time and space both happen with the big bang? their was NOTHING before.

Are you sure?
I would say Space is older than time. Big Bang couldn't occur without space? (maybe?)
Time is immortal, never began or ended. Time only came to be when there was enough intelligence. Time is a unit of measurement. Universe cannot be measured. Time is what we use to create laws & an order or system in our lives.

Time is as old as Love. Every since its concept, it is still never fully understood, yet used in courts & has an influence in our lives.

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: Ceeker63
"Since the universe is still expanding, where does it expand into?"

It curves back into itself. But that doesn't stop it from continuing to expand. This, but in multiple dimensions:

Something about your diagram here struck an instinctive chord.

I have often speculated that the universe of matter is being recycled. You know that ancient symbol of the serpent eating its own tail and the spirals depicted universally in ancient tribal art. Your diagram describes a similar idea.

Personally I think that space is itself eternity. It never began and it will never end. The distribution and organisation of matter is the biggest mystery for me. Where did it start from? Is it by intelligent design? Is it programmed to do all that it does interacting with itself and the conditions it creates upon the canvas of space and time?

I am convinced that space is really eternity. Whether matter is a single miracle sparked from one position and moment in eternity or there are many fountains of matter creation happening in other areas of eternity I have no idea.

I do speculate on the idea of there being other dimensions, but the whole parallel universe idea for me holds little credence, but of course I am interested in the exploration of existence from that angle, too.

Personally, I believe that we are here by intelligent design. Matter was generated deliberately with the aim of creating sentient life, achieved very dramatically here on earth. Did it take a whole universe just to make our planet the way it is? Are we the only planet in eternity to have been the location of this creation or are there other colonies of created life?

Though I still think the Creator is going to intervene somewhere down the line and what we will become will even defy the impositions of matter and the finite resources of the earth and sun (as we know they have a limited shelf life so it seems).

a reply to: lonesomerimbaud

I've read theories before that stated souls are recycled into the sun to create new souls and new lives. That was their explanation of the "light at the end of the tunnel" often seen in NDEs.

Maybe this is the point of black holes? Just consume and spit out new matter on the other end, to be utilized for various purposes....

originally posted by: Nettlas
Isnt the universe expanding into ..space? empty space. space is space, where the universe exsist.

Maybe not.

Space itself is a thing. According to theory, before the universe began expanding due to the big bang, there may have been nothing -- and "nothing" is NOT the same as "space".

Space is a place in which matter an energy can exist. "Nothingness" means that even matter and energy could not exist there, because there is no "there" there.

Put it this way, the Big Bang was not an explosion into space, it was an expansion/expansion of space itself. According to the theory, space did not exist prior to the big bang.

originally posted by: Yeahkeepwatchingme
a reply to: lonesomerimbaud
Maybe this is the point of black holes? Just consume and spit out new matter on the other end, to be utilized for various purposes....

That was what i was thinking about as well. The Grey Holes (recently corrected) send wave energy that moves the fabric of space and time in such a way that it may seem like we have not moved, or the other object in question, yet there is increasing distance, like on a boat. The energy spit back out from the Grey hole creates these "waves". Constant motion, yet no motion? idk.lol

I do think that the grey holes and dark matter play a HUGE role in this question.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
I'm more worried about when it reaches maximum expansion then bursts or if it's expanding into other universes what if one of them bursts first...

hey You also need to worry if space time keeps expanding as it appears to be doing, then at some point as gravity pulls on matter we may collapse in a big crunch all energy reaches a peak no? then a decline as the source fades.

just though i would add to your list

Q

originally posted by: Nettlas
Isnt the universe expanding into ..space? empty space. space is space, where the universe exsist.

Yep, the simplest answers are always the best, all that expanding 'stuff' is expanding into space, I think some people just cannot accept the concept of 'forever'.

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People

originally posted by: Nettlas
Isnt the universe expanding into ..space? empty space. space is space, where the universe exsist.

Maybe not.

Space itself is a thing. According to theory, before the universe began expanding due to the big bang, there may have been nothing -- and "nothing" is NOT the same as "space".

Space is a place in which matter an energy can exist. "Nothingness" means that even matter and energy could not exist there, because there is no "there" there.

+1 for you , in fact Space as we know it is FAR from empty (Nothing) this has been proven. it is a mix of plenty of different particles, not a vacuum devoid of everything as i was taught in school ( Pump that air out that glass jar!)

Q

originally posted by: Quantum_Squirrel

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
I'm more worried about when it reaches maximum expansion then bursts or if it's expanding into other universes what if one of them bursts first...

hey You also need to worry if space time keeps expanding as it appears to be doing, then at some point as gravity pulls on matter we may collapse in a big crunch

all energy reaches a peak no? then a decline as the source fades.

just though i would add to your list

Q

As long as the collapse takes the same amount of time as it did to expand, i'm fine with that.

Isnt the universe expanding into ..space? empty space. space is space, where the universe exsist.
Maybe not.

Space is expanding. Space isn't creating itself further ahead for it to expand into. That's the point of the struggle of the question.

originally posted by: jonnyc55

Isnt the universe expanding into ..space? empty space. space is space, where the universe exsist.
Maybe not.

Space is expanding. Space isn't creating itself further ahead for it to expand into. That's the point of the struggle of the question.

yeah but whats it expanding into

could not resist... just watched this a good explanation even though their isn't one.

remember its ALL universe.

a reply to: Ceeker63

With Universal components theories such as the universe is expanding but yet is also a vacuum... 1 would conclude that the universe is expanding and contracting within a containment device that could possibly be compared to a partially filled balloon. And just as you can squeeze one area of a balloon causing the other parts of it to expand with the balloon interior material for example air why still within a vacuum like barrier (inside of balloon) the Universe may be acting the same within the device of containment of which it sits...

NAMASTE*******

originally posted by: jonnyc55

Isnt the universe expanding into ..space? empty space. space is space, where the universe exsist.
Maybe not.

Space is expanding. Space isn't creating itself further ahead for it to expand into. That's the point of the struggle of the question.

In loose therms you can say that space IS creating itself, but not ahead, rather in-between any 2 points. You can picture it like it was a sample volume of water in an ocean where you can't and will never be able to see the limits if there's any.

Disclaimer: I don't believe any of this, it's the "official" version

originally posted by: Quantum_Squirrel

originally posted by: LittleByLittle
Empty space that was there in the beginning?

Also this depends on the space the material/energy we call the universe from the big bang is infinite in all directions or shaped as a 3D curved space? If it is curved space then it will be degrees instead of distance and you can go around 360 degrees in any direction to come back to the same spot.

If we go by holographic idea then everything can be an illusion and we believe reality is in a certain way even if it is just a matrix. Like us playing a WOW character believing we are inside a world that is created by a skilled programmer.

didnt time and space both happen with the big bang? their was NOTHING before.

That all depends if there was a before or not. Just because we think of big bang as a beginning of everything do not mean it was. And give it a few hundred years and we will probably have another theory than big bang.

The right answer of course is, "We don't know. Maybe you can figure it out for us in your life time if you become a scientist."

It's a paradox.

Where did the energy come to form the big bang? How does an object compress at such great volues across unfathomable surface area into what we have today?

If said universe is just in a sea of other universes (im trying to wrap my head around it but i see no need beyond Galaxy clusters, what even is another universe? Where is one? Can we point to it?)

The only theory that would make this viable is if we are inside of an Atom, in which case the existance of humanity would be a fraction of a blip not even a full rotation of an *electron* before civilzations rise and fall.

Of course beyond that there would be an infinite chain of universes where each universe is in the grand scheme much much larger where objects reprisent themselves as getting bigger and bigger but our lifespan is so short we can't detect what makes up this atom that holds these unfathomable ammount of galaxies inside of it.

Now there would be absolutely NO way to scale up to that because you would in the scheme of things have to be composed of quatrillions of universes each full of an unfathomable ammount of galaxies in it to even witness such an existance if one does.

And besides, Since such a scenario our existance would be so short we couldn't even communicate with what ever is out there and visa versa.

Now the paradox to all that, Is this chain would have to occure infinitely. And with zero probability of escaping the *Universe* in such an event. As universes will be moving way to fast just like how molecules move way to fast to catch up with.

Still tho, that's some Dr who stuff but without the communication and all as it simply wouldn't happen.

Unless you like *crack* an atom. But really all an atom is, is neutrons big clumps that pull in electrons and protons. Protons are stronger and and sitt inbetween the neutrons and electrons well the electrons orbit. So there really isin't any *Bubble* persay the object is moving so fast it reflects incoming particles causing it to give the appearance of light opposed to particals that say absorb incoming particles we wouldn't see light. We wouldn't see anything really..

Physics is still in it's infant stages. There's many forms of energy depleted mass that may surprises us in more subtle ways. Such as maybe a particle that only degrades stray electrons?
Not exactly black matter but black of the sort still.

Anyways my stance on the universe is that black holes suck in decaying mass from entropy and recombines it into a mode where the functions, Neutrons, electrons, protons. Are neutralized by becoming a true solid object. No hologram is generated and so way for entropy to drain energy reserves. It remains in a neutralized state until the bound up energy from mixed up polarized particles being lodged together tightly re-energies the previously energy spent particles firing them in all directions as highly charged renewed particles.

This process has been going on forever, and these non reactive mass substance made by black holes is what generates the gas like state that fills *Void* space. And gives seperation between particles. Without these particles mass would just be a solid object with no *space* between it. Space is only made by compression. Take a pressurized chamber for instance. You can make object float in by changing the pressure in a room. Of course enough pressure to do that with us would make us explode. Pressurizing creates it's own enviroment, so space needs to be pressurized in order to function. There cannot be a tear in literal existance itself otherwise everything would float towards it and be compressed. However, This would bring us back to the universe inside the atom theory which round abouts itself to the paradox wheel of improbability.

Pretty much all science is doing is gauging worst case scenarios.
I wouldn't take their beliefs on the creation of the universe as conclusive as their a huge chunk of their work is fear mongering.

Can anyone argue with that point?

originally posted by: Ceeker63
I have a school teacher friend of mine that teaches special ed kids. The other day she was doing a lesson about space, and the Universe.
One of her students asked her a question that completely stumped her, and she just did not have a answer. So I will ask the student question here to see if we can figure out a good answer for her. Here is the question. "Since the universe is still expanding, where does it expand into?"

It is expanding into non-space. Think of it as a cell in the multiverse. Cells have walls and can expand or contract into the non-cellular medium they exist in.

Another way to think of it is a balloon. But outside that balloon is not more air but the lack of it.

The universe as we know it is just 3 dimensions of space and 1 dimension of time. The universe is expanding into the lack of that.

Cool thread. I want to know myself.