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Revelator Occulti-The Secret Messiah

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posted on Nov, 12 2014 @ 11:19 AM
It occurred to me during the thread regarding consideration that the text of Joseph and Aseneth with it's seemingly Messianic archetypes could be somehow an account of the life of Jesus that neither the claimants or indeed anyone else commenting had the faintest idea of what was involved with a Josephic Messiah, which the text provides an allegorical elaboration upon.

Perhaps not surprisingly, as this is an esoteric tradition today known still only in Judaism and even there obscure, but in the First Century quite a prevalent one.

In Jewish eschatology Messiah ben Joseph also known as Messiah bar/ben Ephraim , is a mashiach from the tribe of Ephraim and a descendant of Joseph

Some academic scholars have argued to varying degrees that Christianity and Judaism did not separate as suddenly or as dramatically as sometimes thought and that the idea of two messiahs, one suffering, the second fulfilling the traditional messianic role, was normative to ancient Judaism, in fact predating Jesus

Traditional Christians do not believe that Jesus was a candidate for the Messiah ben Joseph. They believe rather that he was the Messiah ben David and that he was of the tribe of Judah and a descendant of David, whereas the Messiah ben Joseph will be a descendant of Joseph from the tribe of Ephraim.

The tradition of the Josephic Messiah sources directly from the Genesis narrative were at the end of the reconciliation in Egypt all the brothers, all of Israel, recognize the supremacy of Joseph. There is also the historical consideration that the united Kingdom of Israel split into the Northern House of Israel under Kings of the tribe of Ephraim (son of Joseph) and the Kingdom of Judah under Davidic Kings, much prophetic literature is concerned with a hoped for re-unification of this branch that was broken in twain, as it were.

A recent example suggesting this tradition of Joseph came to light in the Gabriel's Revelation Stone;

Gabriel's Revelation is a stone tablet. The text is written in ink. The inscription is in a poor state of preservation. The text seems to talk about a messianic figure from Ephraim who will break evil before righteousness by three days later the text talks about a “prince of princes” a leader of Israel who is killed by the evil king and not properly buried the evil king is then miraculously defeated the text seems to refer to Jeremiah Chapter 31 The choice of Ephraim as the linage of the messianic figure described in the text seems to draw on passages in Jeremiah, Zechariah and Hosea

Other texts known from Qumran such as Testament of the Twelve Patriarchs concern themselves with the same tradition.

The Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs is a composition of twelve texts one for each patriarch. The Testament of Benjamin was probably expanded later to include a reference to Messiah ben Joseph by Jewish sources. The Testament of Joseph on the other hand was probably altered by Christians to read that the virgin born Lamb of God from the tribe of Judah rather than the lamb son of Joseph would conquer.

Judaic expectations of what could be expected of a Josephic Messiah are pretty stupid, basically he tends to kick things off before the arrival of the Davidic Messiah, goes out in blaze of glory, Davidic Messiah steps in everyone lives happily ever after, or at least the few left alive.

In the Jerusalem Targum to Zechariah 12.10, Messiah bar Ephraim is slain by Gog. In the Islamic era Targum Pseudo-Jonathan to Exodus 40.9-11, three messiahs Messiah ben David, Messiah ben Ephraim and Elijah are listed. Messiah ben Ephraims' death is not mentioned. The Targum on song of songs 4.5 compares Messiah ben David and Messiah ben Ephraim to Moses and Aaron.

Genesis Rabbah In 75:6 the blessing on Joseph from Deuteronomy 33:17 is applied to the War Messiah later in 99:2 we are told that the War Messiah will be a decedent of Joseph

Messiah ben Joseph will appear in the Upper Galilee prior to the coming of Messiah ben David; he will gather the children of Israel around him, march to Jerusalem, and there, after overcoming the hostile powers, reestablish Temple worship and set up his own dominion.

Seeing as he's not their Messiah anyway what would they know, yet despite this history provides quite a lengthy list of Jews who had a go and failed at being the Josephic Messiah, they tried to make amends by assigning him a magic number;

"The Voice of the Turtledove" (a reference to Song of Songs 2:12) was written by Rabbi Hillel Rivlin of Shklov, a disciple of the Vilna Gaon . The text deals with the Geulah (Era of Redemption) and describes its signs vis-a-vis an evaluation of a proposed 999 footsteps of the Moshiach’s arrival. The Vilna Gaon believed the number 999 to be intrinsically connected to the idea of Moshiach ben Yosef, he also felt that this number is alluded to in the gematria of his own name

What they all overlook is that the archetypal Joseph never fought anyone unlike of course the archetypal David, he interpreted dreams and provided stewardship, got himself thrown into a hole for being too colourful and into prison for being too virtuous, but the fates were always with him.

The Egyptian name he took of Zaphenath-paneah can be taken to mean Revealtor Occuti;

Kimchi also suggests, “Revealtor Occuti” – “revealer of hidden things.”

Other suggestions worthy of consideration: In the Septuagint, we find: (Psonthomphantech), “the one who furnishes the nourishment of life” or “healer of the world” (Vulgate). Some scholars propose that in the Coptic language, it signifies a “revealer of secrets,” or, “the man to whom secrets are revealed,” or, “The man who knows all things” (Vergote). This name may also mean “The Nourisher of the Two Lands, the Living One”; or possibly, “savior-of-the-world, or -land”; or “sustainer of life” (Albright) In any case, the name suggests that it was through Joseph life in Egypt had been preserved

Part of that occult tradition was of course only revealing his own person when he saw fit, in fact though many of the archetypes of Joseph trace back to the Cult of Nazi in Sumeria, dream interpretation, benevolent stewardship, rites involving dying to be raised again for initiates into it, Nazi or Nanse was the daughter of God (Enki), the cult of Joseph retained these essentialy feminine aspects, even though it is his consort Aseneth that gets recognition as the Daughter of God.

"The Lord will bless you, even the God of Joseph, who has chosen you to be his bride, for he is the first-born son of God, and you will be called daughter of the Most High, and Joseph shall be your bridegroom for ever.

So there we go and now you know, it's the story that's all important in terms of as it was in the begining so shall it be at the end, which is fortunate as the musics dreadful...

edit on Kpm1130315vAmerica/ChicagoWednesday1230 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 12 2014 @ 11:32 AM
And when can we expect the deliverance.......or not.....
Thanks im really cornfused....
Are you saying enki is god.....or does enki make it into the picture....

posted on Nov, 12 2014 @ 11:41 AM
a reply to: Kantzveldt

There is a messiah project on this world, constantly trying to churn out heroes to save the masses from themselves. This is a false dilemma. The masses cannot be saved from without, so those inducted into this journey can only begin to save the world by first saving themselves. If you get swept up by the ego and you believe the lies it whispers to you in the night, I believe, you have already lost. There are myriad siren songs on this planet. There are thousands of mirage oases calling out for you to sit beside them and perish of thirst in the hot desert sun, but there is a real paradise, and you don't have to go anywhere to find it. It is already extant within your being.

posted on Nov, 12 2014 @ 11:42 AM
a reply to: stirling

I don't suppose you can expect anything, maybe that's the point of a secret Messiah, after all the brothers of Joseph didn't expect him to come to their salvation in Egypt, it would make for a useless story if you were anticipating the ending.

The earlier archetypes from Sumeria in my opinion do indicate that YHWH was largely derivative of Enki and that even the story of Joseph is derivative of his daughter Nanse, but there's always scope for re-interpretation and possible improvement in life.

a reply to: Nechash

I dunno really, what would the Freudians make of a dream involving seven fat cows...?

edit on Kam1130315vAmerica/ChicagoWednesday1230 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 12 2014 @ 12:02 PM
a reply to: Kantzveldt

Unfortunately, it seems to invert the adage the native Americans made about the wolf you feed upon its head. The less you feed the ego, the hungrier it becomes until it might rise up to consume you? Interesting. This might be why Kabbalists talk about satisfying the left-hand fully so that way the evil inclination has no avenue of attack. Then again, I'm just going by pure intuition right now, so this might not mean much at all. Luckily for me, my ego doesn't seem to want too awfully much. I fed it a ham and cheese sandwich on flatbread this morning and it was very happy. The fact I broke about five Kosher laws doing so was just a bonus. ;p

posted on Nov, 12 2014 @ 12:09 PM
a reply to: Nechash

There's an article you might appreciate on the Josephic Messiah which sort of takes into account the kabbalistic perspective here, perhaps what you do bring up with regards to the ego can be countered in that the Josephic Messiah largely interprets Divine will and Fate through dream and suffering the misfortunes of such, he has no personal ambition, good fortune he extends towards benevolence.

posted on Nov, 12 2014 @ 12:38 PM
a reply to: Kantzveldt

That seems sensible enough to me, thanks for sharing it! I'm presently on a path of personal rectification, although I say that as if I am the cause of it. ;p Left to my own devices, I'd still be off drunken yoloing with the new generation of brazen ones who have been born onto this scene. If one such as I can be reformed, even to this small degree, there is hope for anyone.

posted on Nov, 12 2014 @ 04:59 PM
a reply to: Nechash

Yes it's all very cool, i still think it would be better if they simply cut out the middle man as far as reconciling the Feminine archetype goes and made Nanse the Supreme Ruler of Planet Earth, though the Kabbalists would argue it's about reconciling the Feminine side within Adam-Man.

There's a city that's pretty tight called Lagash. Nanshe went to that city, and when she did, food and water just started popping up everywhere. Like magic!

Nanshe's pretty cool too. She cares for orphans, widows, refugees, etc. Just by hanging out with them, they're suddenly overwhelmed with food, money, houses, you name it! She also made Gudea the king of Lagash. She granted him badass powers, and he had a festival held in her honor.

Since she was a total badass goddess, there were rules that had to be abided by to keep her apeased. If people didn't follow those rules, the most horrible of punishments were exacted upon them. Like getting FIRED. Or NOT getting BONUSES! It was pretty strict...

There was also this dude, Hendursaja, who takes care of a lot of the heavy lifting. He fights for justice, and carries out punishment against those who do not fight for justice. But really, he's not that important. It's mostly about Nanshe. She's awesome. She's tops. In fact, she can even SEE INTO YOUR HEART. She knows if you're good or bad just by LOOKING at you. She's SO POWERFUL. As powerful as Enlil for sure.

No. NO. She's MORE powerful than Enlil. OR ANYONE.


All about Nanse

edit on Kpm1130315vAmerica/ChicagoWednesday1230 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 12 2014 @ 09:56 PM
a reply to: Kantzveldt

I enjoyed your summary and assessment of the Josephic Messiah. I also enjoyed your use of comparative religion and extra-biblical eisegesis. Very nice reasoning and deduction.




originally posted by: Kantzveldt

"The earlier archetypes from Sumeria in my opinion do indicate that YHWH was largely derivative of Enki"

I have come to the conclusion that YHWH is actually Marduk, and through comparative religious research, can also be equated with Baal Hadad, Teshub, and Zeus.

Enki is the serpent and satan, while Enlil is El/Elohim (God the Father).

In the mythos of Marduk, we see that he is a deity that absorbs the authority, qualities, powers, and stories of all deities that he replaces, through ascension and usurpation. It is of my opinion, that when we see correlations between YHWH and Enki, it is actually illustrating the admixture of Marduk with Ea/Enki, through the former's succession over the latter.




originally posted by: Kantzveldt

it would be better if they simply cut out the middle man as far as reconciling the Feminine archetype goes

The Feminine Archetype was very well established in the Levant and Land of Canaan. There still remains residual traces of such Feminines.

For example, the primordial goddess Tiamat is preserved in Genesis 1:2, by the Hebrew word, "Tehom," while her Absu is preserved in the same verse by the phrase, "Tohu wa Bohu."

The misogynistic patriarchal followers of YHWH stamped-out the known and established consort of El/Elohim, being, Athirat/Asherah,... who, through comparative religious research, can be equated with Ishtar, Inanna, and the Grecian Venus. Archeological discoveries have even uncovered ancient references to "YHWH and His Asherah."

We also have esoteric traditions of the Masculine/Feminine through Adam and Eve, and Mary Magdalene and Jesus.

As our fellow ATS member AlephBet concludes, the Feminine is preserved as the Ruach Elohim.

posted on Nov, 12 2014 @ 10:20 PM
Thought I'd add my 2 cents here. From what I figured out on the subject here it would appear the Jews are right about the ben Joseph messiah being a future event. According to the prophesies of Malachi and Zechariah it appears that there was supposed to be 4 messiahs.

Per Zechariah the "Lord" has two personal assistants. The branches. Also known as the messengers of Malachi. Each branch was predicted to build a Jewish temple. The prophecy is still unfinished. Also in Malachi 3 it was predicted that the messenger of the covenant would accompany the Lord into the temple. That hasn't happened yet. That's still an unfinished prophecy.

Also in Malachi 4 it was predicted that Elijah the prophet would be there as well. So far we have 3 down but there is still one to go.

posted on Nov, 13 2014 @ 03:59 AM
I would propose that you investigate further IF there are ultimately 12 'Messiahs', or one each for the appropriate 'Age'...

the Zodiacal Age we are exiting is Pisces with Jesus (the 'Christ' to some) as the center piece human who was 'changed' into a spiritual rebirth form...from a physical 'death' or shedding of an Earthly body

perhaps if one has a telescoping lens view... the Piscean age was the Jewish (Hebrew/Israel ) turn to have a Messiah...
chances are there will never be another turn as the lead dog as there are too many other ascending cultures- paradigms to be born into prominence
edit on th30141587374313152014 by St Udio because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 13 2014 @ 04:02 AM
a reply to: Sahabi

It's a complicated picture to be sure, the King David archetype is largely that of the pastoralist shepherd similar to that of Dumuzid as King, a son of Enki, and that also figures largely in the Davidic Messianic expectations, a figure that dies to be born again, by tradition his consort would have been Inanna or Ishtar.

There was also Asalluhi son of Enki who assimilated with Marduk who represented the planet Jupiter and the principle of established order, Asalluhi is the great shamanic healer and fighter of Demons and chaos, the power of Enki made manifest through him, this healing and establishment of absolute order also becoming expectations of the Davidic Messiah.

So a lot of archetypes which had been represented by differing Divinities and traditions are becoming part of the Messianic expectation, generally sourcing back to Enki, and that also includes his daughter Nanse.

It's generally noted that two distinct roles are carried out in the Gospels by Jesus, the shepherd and the fisherman, and were it gets really complicated is that all aspects of the fisherman cult trace back to Nanse and de facto are also more proper to the role of a Josephic Messiah rather than Davidic.

Nanshe had the ability to give oracular messages and determine the future through dream interpretation (Oneiromancy). Her priests were also granted these abilities after conducting a ritual that represented death and resurrection.

Nanshe has two major symbols, both of which are also seen in Christian folklore. The fish represents her original role as a water and fishing goddess. The pelican, said in folklore to rip open its own chest to feed its young, represents her role as a protector and caregiver.

She is concerned for the orphan and concerned for the widow. She does not forget the man who helps others, she is a mother for the orphan; Nance, a carer for the widow, who always finds advice for the debt-slave; the lady who gives protection for refugees. She seeks out a place for the weak. She swells his collecting basket for him; she makes his collecting vessel profitable for him.

That put the compassionate and caring element into the Gospels, and so basically Jesus was being represented as both the Davidic and Josephic Messiah, whilst only making claim to being the former, which is a bit odd.

a reply to: St Udio

The sons of Israel certainly had astrological symbolic aspects with regards to the twelve constellations, were Judah was represented by the Lion/Leo, Joseph tends to be identified with Taurus, it's uncertain what they made of all that, perhaps more important that the division of the ecliptic plane into twelve sectors was based upon the movements of Jupiter.

a reply to: ntech

Yes it's complicated, satisfying all the Messianic expectations of the Hebrews no easy task!
edit on Kam1130316vAmerica/ChicagoThursday1330 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 13 2014 @ 06:15 AM
Surprising to learn that there is an English translation from the Latin of the Joseph and Aseneth tale dating back to the Middle Ages, it has a mystical introduction were a beautiful Lady appears and encourages the translation.

As I on hilly halkes logged me late,
Biside ny of a Ladi sone was I war;
La Bele me desired in Englysh to translate
The Latyn of that lady, Asneth Putifar.
And I answered, "Ma Bele, langage I lakke
To parforme youre plesir, for yt ys ful straunge

La Bele ful benignely sayde to me than,
"That servant ys not to blame, but fully excused,
That meketh hym to his maystresse, and doth as he can."
Concluded thus with gentilnesse, I toke on to me the cure,
Asneth storie to translate after my cunnynge,
Fro Latyn into Englysh as God me sendeth oevre.

The Storie of Asneth

Probably a more influential work than is realized.

posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 02:19 AM
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