It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Russian Tanks Move Across Ukraine Border: NATO Chief Breedlove

page: 18
19
<< 15  16  17    19 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Nov, 14 2014 @ 12:29 PM
link   
a reply to: tavi45





One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. People in America seem to forget that. If I was Russian, Kiev would be terrorists to me.


And yet the Russian population doesn't get to see what is happening because they only see what state run television tells them.

And we have seen how the Russian media reports on events in Ukraine, so it would be no wonder some Russians feel they are the bad guys.

You do it anyway so what does being Russian have to do with it?




posted on Nov, 14 2014 @ 12:42 PM
link   

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: AndyMayhew




www.theguardian.com...
www.bbc.co.uk...


Propaganda...propaganda...propaganda.

It's all western propaganda, because it isn't true unless it came from Russian media...you should know that.


All MSM is part of the propaganda machine in the West. It's pretty clear at this point. If you think the West is free and democratic and Russia is actually worse then you are in the wrong century. We have no more freedom than Russians and no more democracy than Russians.



posted on Nov, 14 2014 @ 12:46 PM
link   

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: tavi45





One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. People in America seem to forget that. If I was Russian, Kiev would be terrorists to me.


And yet the Russian population doesn't get to see what is happening because they only see what state run television tells them.

And we have seen how the Russian media reports on events in Ukraine, so it would be no wonder some Russians feel they are the bad guys.

You do it anyway so what does being Russian have to do with it?


Lol. I know. If you and Xcathadra had your way I'd be branded as a terrorist for my treason of not blindly supporting our corrupt, totalitarian oligarchy. Carry on sir. You do the important work of preventing progress and maintaining the status quo.





posted on Nov, 14 2014 @ 12:57 PM
link   

originally posted by: tavi45te]

If you and Xcathadra had your way I'd be branded as a terrorist for my treason of not blindly supporting our corrupt, totalitarian oligarchy.


You are doing exactly what putin is doing.

Attributing a certain position for someone without anything to back it up by relying on misconceptions and paranoia.

I have stated many many times in many threads that without disagreement this world would suck and we would most likely still be living in caves.

By having disagreement we are better able to identify problems, misconceptions etc with the resulting discussion / debate resulting in possible solutions that could work better for everyone.

I don't want to hear just one side of the story. Putin is intent on achieving that though for Russia by nationalizing and firmly controlling all media.

Please do not assume / put words in my mouth.



posted on Nov, 14 2014 @ 01:05 PM
link   
a reply to: Xcathdra

"Please do not assume / put words in my mouth. "

Practice what you preach then. I'm following your example. Maybe you, much like the country you defend so rigorously, should lead by example. This is what you said in reply to an earlier post of mine.

"So rebels can commit war crimes and its ok but everything Kiev does is a war crime - check. "

Sounds EXACTLY like putting words in my mouth.
edit on 14-11-2014 by tavi45 because: added a sentence



posted on Nov, 14 2014 @ 01:32 PM
link   
a reply to: tavi45




"Please do not assume / put words in my mouth.


And the same can be said of you...



If you and Xcathadra had your way I'd be branded as a terrorist for my treason of not blindly supporting our corrupt, totalitarian oligarchy. Carry on sir. You do the important work of preventing progress and maintaining the status quo.




Practice what you preach then.


Ditto...



posted on Nov, 14 2014 @ 01:59 PM
link   

originally posted by: Xcathdra

The death count would have been lower had Russia not invaded Ukraine... Food for thought.



The death toll is a lot more than 4k, and if you want to reduce it down to 4k you have a general problem. A million refugees, is not 4k dead .... a million people don't flee there home, because a few people died ... people flee their home, as a last resort.

The Russians should stop playing a "conventional" war game... and start threatening Ukraine and Europe with Nuclear weapons. Give them the choice, of inhialation or surrender ...

Putin doesn't comprehend this problem, this will never be a conventional war. The US and it's allies, will at minimum use Depleted Uranium, fire bombs, pestisites and other weapons ... they have been using in every war they've been in. Russia will gain nothing, in trying to keep this conflict in a "low" scenario ... it will only cause more casualties. The "right" thing for Russia to do, is to "threaten" the heads in Europe, in such a way that they will literally pee in their pants, where they are standing ... and remain that way, for decades to come. And won't put the lives of Europe in danger, for US war mongers ever again.



posted on Nov, 14 2014 @ 02:17 PM
link   
a reply to: tavi45

and making an excuse and blaming someone else for your behavior doesn't work either.

There is nothing wrong with loving your country and not agreeing with what the government is doing. The sooner you understand that concept the more informed you will become.

Not putting words in your mouth at all - it was a question to clarify the position. Again another area you need to brush up in.



posted on Nov, 14 2014 @ 02:23 PM
link   
a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Except I never preached it guy
. That's my point. Lead by example. Don't call people out for doing what you do as well. It's very simple.

It's very similar to what America itself does. Use tactics that are unsavory and then act like a paragon of virtue and attack people/nations when they do the same. Irony at its finest.



posted on Nov, 14 2014 @ 02:26 PM
link   
a reply to: tavi45

One again you leave Russia out, who is doing exactly what you accuse only one side of doing.



posted on Nov, 15 2014 @ 10:17 AM
link   

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: tavi45

One again you leave Russia out, who is doing exactly what you accuse only one side of doing.


Russia isn't imposing its society on the rest of the world like America is. When Russia topples a government somewhere to impose their society on another culture, then I'll include Russia.



posted on Nov, 15 2014 @ 11:16 AM
link   
a reply to: bjarneorn




The death toll is a lot more than 4k,


Surely you have a source for that which backs your claim?




The Russians should stop playing a "conventional" war game... and start threatening Ukraine and Europe with Nuclear weapons. Give them the choice, of inhialation or surrender ...


You really can't be serious.



The "right" thing for Russia to do, is to "threaten" the heads in Europe, in such a way that they will literally pee in their pants, where they are standing ... and remain that way, for decades to come. And won't put the lives of Europe in danger, for US war mongers ever again.


You really are clueless aren't you, because Russia has not the man power nor the military ability to take on the world that you so happily think can happen. All Putin can do is make threats, as he is truly unwilling to use a nuclear weapon especially knowing that would mean an end to life as he knows it.

And you really need to get help with your war mongering as it isn't healthy.



posted on Nov, 15 2014 @ 11:35 AM
link   

originally posted by: tavi45

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: AndyMayhew




www.theguardian.com...
www.bbc.co.uk...


Propaganda...propaganda...propaganda.

It's all western propaganda, because it isn't true unless it came from Russian media...you should know that.


All MSM is part of the propaganda machine in the West. It's pretty clear at this point. If you think the West is free and democratic and Russia is actually worse then you are in the wrong century. We have no more freedom than Russians and no more democracy than Russians.


To be fair, western media does not get closed down if it criticised the govt and/or doesnt carry the stories the govt tells it to. And we get to read Russian media as well - our govt does not block it because it broadcasts propoganda.

I am not saying our media is necessarily trustworthy - indeed, knowing that the lie and deliberately misquote adnd distort what people say on mundane things like the weather means I never trust anything I see in the MSM.

However, we are still in a better position than most in Russia.



posted on Nov, 15 2014 @ 12:06 PM
link   

Stephen Harper at G20 tells Vladimir Putin to 'get out of Ukraine'


Every once in a while I grudgingly agree with our Prime Minister. This is one of those times. The idiotic charade of soldiers and equipment without insignia showing up in Eastern Ukraine has got to stop before things get completely out of hand.

edit on 15/11/14 by masqua because: grammar



posted on Nov, 15 2014 @ 12:54 PM
link   
a reply to: masqua




The idiotic charade of soldiers and equipment without insignia showing up in Eastern Ukraine has got to stop before things get completely out of hand.


And yet this is the response Russia gives...


But a spokesman for the Russian delegation said Putin's response was: "That's impossible because we are not there."


www.cbc.ca...

I guess if he says it enough times someone's bound to believe him...



posted on Nov, 15 2014 @ 01:13 PM
link   
a reply to: tsurfer2000h

So Russia is sending non existent trucks to pick up the bodies of non existent Russian soldiers who couldnt have died in Ukraine because they were never there. How stupid do they think we are?



posted on Nov, 15 2014 @ 01:14 PM
link   
a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Repeating an obvious lie has been the preferred method since Goebbels first used it (that I know of). It's sad that such measures have been adopted by so many other politicians right around the world.



posted on Nov, 15 2014 @ 01:42 PM
link   
a reply to: AndyMayhew




How stupid do they think we are?


Really stupid by the looks of his comments.



posted on Nov, 15 2014 @ 01:45 PM
link   
a reply to: masqua




Repeating an obvious lie has been the preferred method since Goebbels first used it (that I know of). It's sad that such measures have been adopted by so many other politicians right around the world.


And with the use of technology we have today it just doesn't work so well. But I guess in Russia when the gov't has the last say in what you see and hear it is much easier to get that lie believed.



posted on Nov, 16 2014 @ 02:20 AM
link   
a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Actually it works better now. The illusion of freedom of the press in America and other western nations means the mainstream of society tends to believe anything that comes from the government or "experts".

Western governments lie and use propaganda constantly through their control of the media. Illusion, subtle lies, and obfuscation work far more effectively than blatant lies and propaganda.

Russia says they aren't in Ukraine. This is a blatantly obvious lie. No one believes it including most Russians (I'm assuming). My Russian friend sure doesn't believe it nor do I.

America and its allies say Ukraine chose its path freely and without any outside influences or input. This is also a lie but it's not blatant since everything was done carefully and secretly. Therefore people choose foolishly to believe this.

It's just sad how people think Western society is free and uncorrupted. We aren't nearly as free as people think. If you truly think our media is honest and forthright, feel free. It's definitely not. You're entitled to think so though. It's a free country, right?



new topics

top topics



 
19
<< 15  16  17    19 >>

log in

join