Yes, the Republican Obamacare Strategy Will Kill People

Um...

I thought "Obamacare" was a GOP idea until Obama endorsed it -- then it became the devil and the GOP did everything they could to block it?

Politics isn't about people anymore, it's all about money, no matter which "side" you are on.

I keep waiting for "Team Republican" and "Team Democrat" jerseys to be produced, and "halftime shows" to air during the State of the Union and CSPAN programming.

Politics should NOT be treated like a team sport, likened to football or basketball. Sadly, it has become that in America. People who don't even have ideas of their own blindly follow "their team" simply because they like the competition and the camaraderie of group-think.

How long before a score board is installed in the Senate?

a reply to: network dude

Well, the fact is that the "crappiest" policy under the ACA is typically far better than the previous phoney "plans" that were only created to scam customers.

The fastest growing group of underinsured was people in households around the national median income, the $40,000 to $50,000 annual income range—folks who make too much to qualify for Medicaid but who don't have employer-sponsored plans or who can't afford the ones they're offered. Insurance companies jumped into the void with a lot of products Consumer Reports dubbed "junk insurance." These were plans that barely qualified as insurance because they had very low caps on coverage or weren't even really insurance at all. Many were merely medical discount programs that didn't protect against health-related financial calamity.

Source - Mother Jones

(Don't condemn the source if you can't dispute the evidence.)

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
Um...

I thought "Obamacare" was a GOP idea until Obama endorsed it -- then it became the devil and the GOP did everything they could to block it?

lots of things from think tanks get shelved after backlash from constituents shows up. the politicians that passed this were tone deaf and are facing consequences. their was not a unanimous population behind this and never would have been regardless of who had the original bad idea.

It's been a disaster from the start and it's going to get much worse.

townhall.com...

www.thenewamerican.com...

www.ibj.com...

humanevents.com...

You should have brought a much bigger bag of wool.

originally posted by: seeker1963
a reply to: Willtell

For someone who complains that the WHOLE political system is corrupt, it amazes me that you STILL complain that one party is evil, when even in your past posts you have admitted that they are both corrupt!

So WHAT IS IT?

Either they are BOTH corrupt, OR your BSing!

Don't pick sides if you make a choice to say they both SUCK!

Whats even more amazing is not only his posts that contradict each other........

But the fact that he says the whole gov is corrupt and so are both parties, yet he wants this same GOV to be in charge of people getting MEDICAL treatment........

Seriously?

a reply to: Gryphon66

I think you missed the point. By a lot. See, in my world, you only have the money you MAKE. (I have to work for mine) and when it's gone, there isn't any more. So in order to not have the problem of not having any money, I have to budget things. Like even though I would love a new truck, I cannot have one. Why? Because I cannot afford to spend the $500 a month on the payment. So I make due with the truck I have.

Now, knowing that, I used to be able to pay for my insurance. Now, it COSTS TOO DAMN MUCH. So I stopped paying for insurance. I hope that soon, I can change my situation, but as of right now, this is how it is.

Now, since you seem to have ll the answers, please explain how I can get my insurance that I used to have. I was perfectly happy with what it covered. I'll wait right here.

originally posted by: Kangaruex4Ewe
Include these facts with those facts then...

spectator.org...

A 73-year-old man had bone marrow cancer, atrial fibrillation, kidney failure, high blood pressure and it was Obamacare that killed him? He had all these conditions, became unconscious, had seizures and the hospital couldn't find a way to admit him??? The doctor is the one who decides whether the patient should be admitted or not:

Physicians and hospitals follow a specific set of clinical criteria (severity of illness and intensity of service needed to diagnose and treat) that assists in determining whether a patient meets medical necessity for an “inpatient” status in the hospital.

I would think "filling up with toxins that will kill a person" meets the criteria.

Who reviews a patient’s health admission information to determine the criteria?
Your health care team, which includes physicians, nursing staff, and hospital case management staff (Utilization Management), reviews the medical record for the clinical information and applies the research-based clinical criteria utilized by CMS that provides a recommendation for either “outpatient” or “inpatient” status.
Your physician determines the final status however, if Medicare does not agree with the determination, Medicare will not reimburse the hospital for costs incurred. The hospital costs may then be billed to the patient.

Source

Sounds like the Doctor simply didn't understand the Two-Midnight Rule

Physician Documentation supporting Inpatient Admission
In addition to the admission order and certification, documentation by the physician in other areas of the medical record
must be sufficient to support that hospital services were reasonable and necessary. The documentation can be present in the H&P, progress notes and the discharge summary.

The documentation must include:
a. Patient history and comorbidities
b. Severity of signs and symptoms
c. Risk of adverse events
d. Current medical needs requiring inpatient care (e.g.,frequent two-to-four hour monitoring, IV medication requiring hospitalization, high risk of possible infection, etc.

If it was my father, I would have said, "Bill me"!

If all this man's diseases and maladies didn't kill him and they want to blame one person, blame the doctor, who should have admitted the man under this rule.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

What about the other links? Only this one counts? The other folks don't count? See that's MY POINT. Let's always point out something wrong with one story and then ignore all the others like they never existed. Like they don't still exist. Try saying BILL ME at a privately owned hospital that knows you can't pay. Unlike publicly funded hospitals... They don't have to treat you. I guess then she should have had the medical knowledge to know whether she should chance moving him to another hospital further away or not. Entirely her fault.

It's also entirely her fault that she didn't know all of the policies at the hospital. Nope. Not like most people expect the STAFF working there to know the policies. How many folks do you think second guess the doctor when they tell them something? Whether they should or not is not the point. They shouldn't have to. He had other insurance that never had a problem getting him in when he needed it. Now he has one that there seems to be questions about but she should have known better than the staff.... Ok.

Do you want more links or will there be some way to explain all of those away too? Are you in the camp that says nobody went without coverage, nobody was dropped from their current plans and could not afford the affordable care and missed important chemo and dialysis??

Nobody thought their affordable insurance was active only to find out that it wasn't when they needed it?

Everything went swimmingly? Nobody got dropped, everybody could afford Obamacare, signed up and were covered and treated within days? Nobody thought they were covered, had a procedure done then found out that they were going to be billed for the whole thing all while they had made payments into their Obamacare?

That's fantasy land. It happened. If you choose to ignore those cases, why not choose to ignore the ones that will occur when Obamacare is trashed? That's what I'm planning on doing. Goose and gander sort of thing right?



For the record... I'm neither red nor blue. I don't toe party lines and I don't stand in line to vote for someone based on the letter following their name. This is not a right/left issue.

It's a right/wrong issue for me as it should have been for everyone else. Yet here we are...

originally posted by: Kangaruex4Ewe
What about the other links? Only this one counts?

I spent 20 minutes or so researching what happened, what the "rule" was and what the criteria of admission was under the new Medicare rules. It's not at all that the others "don't count", I just don't want to spend that much time refuting people who claim that Obama is killing them.

I didn't say anything at all about it being the daughter's fault.

Are you in the camp that says ...

I am not in any camp. It's absurd on the face to blame Obamacare because an old, VERY sick man died because the doctor wouldn't admit him. Why should I spend my time researching your other links?

Everything went swimmingly? Nobody got dropped, everybody could afford Obamacare, signed up and were covered and treated within days? Nobody thought they were covered, had a procedure done then found out that they were going to be billed for the whole thing all while they had made payments into their Obamacare?

That's fantasy land.

Yes, it's fantasy land. I never said or implied ANY of that. YOU'RE making stuff up. I don't like Obamacare, either. Don't make the mistake of placing me in a "camp" just because I found the TRUTH of your first link and posted it here. You're assuming an awful lot. And incorrectly so.

For the record... I'm neither red nor blue.

NEITHER AM I! Never in my life have I been a party member. I vote for the person, not the letter.

If we had national health care for free LIKE ALL CIVILIZED societies we wouldn’t be bickering over these life and death situations.

We could be moving on to perfect health care but the US is a disgrace to the human race

Because Obamacare is unsustainable and because what you get is ridiculously bad for the price, when I turn 25 and am off my parents insurance, I have no idea what I am going to do. I likely will not get insurance at all and say F u to the government. Either way, without a massive overhaul of the entire governmental system and a return to try and actualize the founders' wishes, this country is doomed to become even worse. The problem with democrats is that they have really nice ideologies but those idealistic things are not fiscally possible. And the problem with republicans is that they don't really care for the little man. Obviously generalizing things but point is both parties are bad because the party system exists to create divisiveness. Since it is all a sham, what are we supposed to do to fix things? I guess I'm too young or too stupid to figure it out but I'd love to know.

I was paying a fortune before ACA. It got slightly but negligibly cheaper after ACA. You're screwed no matter what unless you are one of the extremely small number of young people whose job provides insurance.

End of the day you're screwed like all young people. Are you having fun watching the old people argue about our future without asking us for our opinion or even considering us?

originally posted by: Willtell

That it is dangerous and potentially fatal to lack health insurance is hardly an exotic or complex theory. People generally understand this. The fact that repealing Obamacare will kill some people does not settle the question of whether Obamacare is better than some imaginary alternative Republican health-care plan, or even whether it is better than the pre-reform status quo.

Obamacare has already killed a friend of mind, why should I care?

a reply to: Xtrozero

Because repealing it will kill people too.

a reply to: Willtell

Only the real dummies are still listening to this stuff. The bus has left the station.

Now some will say that the busy bees are at work trying to deal with a major setback with all the Repugs in office now. Very well then. In all seriousness its like the naked emperor at this point with all these "Bush held back food and water from New Orleans and even had the levy blown up by a secret branch of special forces" redirected for the "republicans want to eat babies" new hit campaign.

The real scary scary part is that there are more than a handful of true believer left out there.

originally posted by: tavi45
a reply to: Xtrozero

Because repealing it will kill people too.

Well you don't think commander in chief is worried do you? He's getting on the mother ship with Louis Farrakhan while republicans walk the street like zombies in a zombie nation. Walking around with dead babies in their mouthes that died when the republican cut the school lunch program. Or was it the breakfast program. Whatever. Yepers he is going to "Disney World" on MS 1 with Lewis, Elisha something or another and about 70 underage girls.

There's a blindness in people…a moral, ethical, blindness…a lack of simple empathy and compassion in their hearts that makes them actually angry at the concept of universal health care for all

Its not that this is sainthood (to advocate universal healthcare) but its BASIC humanity

Its human being 101

The beginning of being empathetic and understanding that there is a fundamental state of love and compassion for ALL human beings that ALL of us should strive to attain

That’s all it is

Its not religion

Its not communism

Its not Socialism

Its not Anti-freedom

Its just ordinary basic empathy and compassion for your fellow human being

If people can’t see that, can’t understand that

Then we are lost as a species

We're so close to a single payer system.

It's going to be wonderful.

originally posted by: Willtell
There's a blindness in people…a moral, ethical, blindness…a lack of simple empathy and compassion in their hearts that makes them actually angry at the concept of universal health care for all

DO you want to set back on just look at the untold number of buckets of excrement the american people have eaten down and have been sold in the name of human compassion and empathy?

a reply to: Willtell

Due to the bloated system now, the greed of insurers and BigPharma and other assorted lobbyists....I won't be able to afford that either.


Without reform....nothing will work.