The Toxic Nature of the Human Imagination

The human imagination has arguably let us land on the moon
(sorry moon hoaxers!), fly the skies, and to fill our world with
endless products of the imagination, from Apple devices which
must be purchased annually to maintain 'being cool' to pet rocks
and faux representative democracy.

The human imagination is arguably the thing which most sets us
apart from other animals. Some might say intelligence, but all
the heights of intelligence ride on unbounded imagination..
besides, don't be a buzz-kill in my post please. I'm orating here
for god's sake.

I for one wish I could focus on the 'bright side' of the imagination,
and be nothing more than say a Brony
or to blather on about the nature of 'good' and the exalted nature
of the human animal and how the Universe treats us like Harry Potter
where even our poo is plated with gold.

But alas, the full truth about the imagination, the pinnacle of the
human critter is quite distressing in fact.

There is this very human tendency to fantasize about unseen worlds
and then to associate our egos with them.

As a result, we have billions of humans hankering for 'heaven' or
imagining those who disagree with them into 'hell' and all the
while this toxic imagination keeps these folks from seeing
the boring old world around them.

As a result, we have consumed nearly all the easily obtainable
resources, killed off most of the larger fish (working on the
smaller fish), filled the oceans with plastic islands the size
of the state of Texas, turned the ocean acidic, made millions
of innocent animals species go extinct and have even managed
to resist having Game of Thrones be available without a cable
subscription.

Our environment is damaged, probably beyond any reasonable
repair, and we are still arguing over whether Android is better
than Apple (it is).

Our imaginations turn each other against us as we throw ancient
Hebrew at each other, to prove that yes, Britney Spears did have
breast augmentation and all the other wonderful uses of imagination
I see rage back and forth on ATS in our culture.

I'm always thinking about that Little Red Wagon story.

If I were a conspiracy theorist, I'd be tempted to say, that the
human imagination is not just our racial weakness leading to our
doom, but that subtle and not so subtle forces are in fact encouraging
us to get lost in it, for their own purposes.

Before humans invented 'heaven and hell' they got up in the morning,
put on their wombat-skin clothing (or whatever) and rustled up
breakfast by foraging for it, clubbing it to death in the woods, and
later growing it.

But there were no republicans, democrats and purveyors of weird
deities which have never existed, who encourage us to destroy the
Earth for their pleasure.

It's literally the moment the first human imagined that they had a
soul, and some exotic dimension to flee to, that everything started
going to hell on Earth.

Once you have 'heaven and/or hell' you don't have to be responsible
any longer. You can be the biggest ass in the entire world, and
still get away with thinking yourself holy, evolved, or enlightened.

It's quite a thing.. by becoming the biggest jerk and loser imaginable
you get to give yourself an infinite bag of gold stars and notches in
your salvation belt when you manage to pollute someone else's
imagination.

No i'm not ranting about religion actually. Religion is just the easiest
target of all; the easiest case to make.

Have you ever noticed, that a lot of bright folks start out with some
cool theory that may or may not be true.. but it's not entirely
fruit loops.

But no, they can never leave it alone.. they have to pick at it like
a scab..and before long they are going on about cats and dogs
living together and the theory of Atlantis. Before long the
"first imaginer" gets spooked as their imagination has grown legs
and gained a life of it's own. Then they either have to double down
on the crazy (and make a fool out of themselves and sacrifice part
of their ego --- as they now have 'followers') or they have to fess
up to their crazy (it's the "part of what I have written is wrong
admission you see). But generally they melt down and slink away.

Unfortunately these days, large institutions perpetuate the madness,
so there is no slinking away. Very reputable governments and organizations
have wiped out entire cultures and species and still claim to be the
'good guys'. If I get a parking ticket and don't pay it, I can get arrested.

I'm very familiar with the toxic nature of the imagination.. I'm a recovering
addict myself. Tapping the 'power' without succumbing to the 'peril' -
not so easy.

Kev

Couldn't agree more... Most of what the human mind has conjured up is total nonsense, yet it seems to always entertain someone no matter how stupid the original idea was. Conjure up something and get lost in it, seems like universal law when talking about humans. And you are right about taking responsibility, who needs it in this life when responsibility can be pushed on magical beings on some imaginary plane of existence. S & F

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Once you have 'heaven and/or hell' you don't have to be responsible
any longer. You can be the biggest ass in the entire world, and
still get away with thinking yourself holy, evolved, or enlightened.

Thats why when the sheep are separated from the goats there will be "great wailing and gnashing of teeth". All those that thought they were going to heaven are really the ones going into hell (the sun).

The sun is not hell and no one thinking they are going to heaven will be going to hell.

Because even in Christian faith, thinking you're going to heaven means you have a spent a life time not murdering, raping or pillaging.

And if you haven't seriously harmed anyone, you sure aint going to the time out place for deep remorse and shedding off all the errors.

There is no permanent hell.

The sun is crystal and shines Light in from Beyond, home. But its also hijacked light box that helps create our reality.

But like Mom,it cares for all the solar system.

I would read up on a wonderful NDE by someone who died of last stages of cancer, because we're the only ones that are hard on ourselves: Anita Moorjani.

We're going to be counciling and uplifting all who don't forgive themselves and reach upwards or who's frequency is so murderous or harmful as to be pulled away by dark entities.

Everyone goes home in the end.

Currently, the dark side put alot of coding in religions and scriptures imagining their spells and word associations work, that they literally can dig dark traps for basically good people and that this universe is discarded and not monitored, the Love and Family just don't care about how they abuse others.

Whereas all I see is the big F stamped on their forheads and the giant sting operation earth was for those who abuse power.

I do believe our thoughts and beliefs and imaginations help shape our reality so raising frequency is very good, really seeing through things with eyes of love that wants happiness and equality and goodness for all people, and respects them.

Interesting perspective.

Forgive my lack of imagination (hah) but I don't believe that the human mind could exist in any other fashion. Our imagination is the reason WHY we have the capacity for intelligence (without imagining abstract processes, we could never understand mathematics, physics, engineering or any other discipline).
Our imagination compensates for our relatively weak bodies, by allowing us to plan and communicate with each other abstract terms, plans and ideas.

Our imagination does as you said, allow us to strive for different goals, some important and others not so much.
Your imagination allowed you to suggest that humanity would benefit from having less imagination.

a reply to: Unresponsible

I simply stated that even a good thing could
be used in a very bad way.

a reply to: Unity_99

Historically 'christians', 'Christian nations', 'christian empires' and other paternal monotheistic cultures
have basically wiped out nearly ALL indigenous
cultures around the world on all populated continents. Then they burned books and libraries
for a thousand years to cover their crimes.

Now this thread is not meant to be a rant targeting
any particular group or philosophy.

But reading just a little history might be helpful
before whipping out pure imagination.

Really I'd love to discuss more meaty
aspects of the issue....all aspects of
human culture suffer from the toxic
imagination problem.

Kev

Nice thread Kev. It's great to have an imagination but with that imagination comes responsibility. It so easy to imagine all sorts of stories and crazy situations but in the end you are running away from yourself, from reality. All that energy wasted mostly on pipe dreams. Just about all imaginings of the mind include that big Ego, inventing scenarios where you are King of the World or some super hero or something. It always ends up in people getting hurt. The Ego loves a wicked imagination too latch on to in order to solidify it's existence in your life. If you are going to use your imagination do it responsibly and constructively like John Lennon once did in that wonderful song Imagine.

a reply to: DrunkYogi

Beautiful response.....

IMHO there is a very narrow path one can
pursue which leads to something most
intetesting.....people might think me
to be an atheist or non-spiritual.

The truth is that I'd love to discuss more
positive and 'fascinating' things.

But you have to be a fair student of
history to un-muck yourself from the
extreme deadly fruits of imagination
gone wrong before becoming capable
of rationally discussing 'fringe topics'.

Our fast food instant gratification society
does not prepare anyone to take such a
journey. Only misfits seem to do the
hard work these days.

Im always looking for rational but
open minded misfits with whom
to converse.

Thanks DY

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I think there are a lot of misfits on ATS Kev, in a good way of course. If you are in anyway considered by modern society to be normal then i think you have a problem. It's so dull and lifeless, you would be conforming to the system and therefore completely under their influence. ATS is a bit like Mistfits R Us.

What is interesting is how easily captivated we are, the newest "fad" comes in many forms, not just the latest gizmo, but also the latest "gurus" offering new information about our celestial brethren waiting to take us away, or the latest conspiracy about malevolent beings that are running the show on Earth.

I dare many to expand their horizons about such topics, and this includes coming up with ones own theories about aliens - I remember talking about aliens, and all they could say were "greys" and what they managed to find on the internet - I tried to challenge this by broadening their horizons, perhaps there are all kinds of aliens, fish aliens, lobster aliens, feline aliens etc., however they did not want to hear of it, convinced just by watching a few videos on the 'net.

In a way we can be controlled by these imaginary forces, "belief" if you will - we know that a man lets down his defences when it comes to his beliefs, and if he has adopted these beliefs from others, without any personal evidence himself, he is in a way controlled by them.

You must admit, those whom believe in aliens are at a greater likelihood of experiencing associated paranormal phenomenon, compared to a complete "non-believer".

See, even when the phenomenon is real, belief places us at the mercy of such phenomenon, especially if we feel doomed by such beliefs, that being, where imagination turns into nightmare, often feeling like these forces have us trapped or imprisoned.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Star and Flag!

I was deeply interested as I read your monologue, but I think it is sounding more like a rant, as everything has its pro and cons.

Imagination, aka dreams, can indeed become 'toxic' nightmares, if we let them!

However I deeply thank you for referencing The Little Red Wagon Foundation and personally I had it confused at first with the "I Think I Can ..." Little Red Caboose story, but after reading I think there are definitely some similarities between the both of them.

For example, Zach Bonner had terrible nightmares about how kids were being neglected and he 'thinks he can' do something serious about that himself, by acting on what he thought he could provide and then he went and did that, and those seemly small stop gap measures probably saved a persons life, as when we live in a world where for the want of a nail the war was lost, those things, such as a tarp, may have kept somebody high and dry, rather than dying from exposure to the elemental forces of nature.

Reflect and be amazed, because as for 'heaven and hell' and 'as above, so below', I think that everyone overlooks the fact that the only way out of the maze is to stop projecting and to enter/exit through ones own divine center, as the rest is just the tarot wheel of Maya's illusion 10+ dimensions and the mirror.

We're Already Dead (But That's Okay)



The Beatles - The Fool On The Hill



As a shaman I think you could keep your eyes on the prize, the butterfly aka transformation, and forget about all the pitfalls and the dogs of war tugging at you, because if we aim for the stars we might just hit the moon!



Otherwise you might as well be a bit Dali'esque egoic and bring some devil may care attitude ...



...by putting on your tin foil magicians hat, wave a wand/paintbrush etc and conjure/paint up some realities that you would rather enjoy instead. [i.e. by saying some cussing words and curse somebody who deserves it! ]

The Devil cut itself from the full Tarot Universal Dali deck this Good Friday morning. Already such a difficult dual messaged card from The Magician Dali. This is not the Devil. Who is this?

In any other deck this Hermaphrodite of a Devil would represent The Fool, the card that launches the Major Arcana. Traditionally The Fool marks a beginning, perhaps naive but willing to skip into the great unknown, The Future.

The Fool is assembling.

The Devil is a dissembling force as traditionally shown in the Rider Deck. Tarot Universal Dali instead layers meanings over meanings to provide an exit from a dissembling existence.

That would be just like The Magician Salvador Dali to find an exit from Hell.

Hell it would be if even all sensual pleasures stood but lost were the spiritual, mystical and uplifting.

It would be as if trapped in a cave without light, without hope even faith that there is greater Life than the physical world. Does The Magician today to extol us to roll the rock from our path?

And here is some of Crowley's quotes on such matters to do with tapping the power without succumbing to the peril ...

Book VI : Liber O (1909)[edit]Book VI : Liber O vel Manus et Sagittae
In this book it is spoken of the Sephiroth and the Paths; of Spirits and Conjurations; of Gods, Spheres, Planes, and many other things which may or may not exist. It is immaterial whether these exist or not. By doing certain things certain results will follow; students are most earnestly warned against attributing objective reality or philosophic validity to any of them.
There is little danger that any student, however idle or stupid, will fail to get some result; but there is great danger that he will be led astray, obsessed and overwhelmed by his results, even though it be by those which it is necessary that he should attain. Too often, moreover, he mistaketh the first resting-place for the goal, and taketh off his armour as if he were a victor ere the fight is well begun.
It is desirable that the student should never attach to any result the importance which it at first seems to possess.

I hope you find your mojo of happiness again.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

i like your thinking here......

while this toxic imagination keeps these folks from seeing the boring old world around them.

the world we live in fascinating....how life is so connected from the smallest thing to the largest....i get blown away almost on daily when i learn or encounter something new in nature....

i think technology has polluted the minds of many and this is why they are looking for something better.....the world around us is heaven...if we chose to be in sync with nature instead of fighting her we could all have a piece of paradise.....

i have had way too many drinks tonight to articulate myself properly i may try again tomorrow

a reply to: ForeverMan

I'm extraordinarily happy myself!

I have so much to be grateful for.

But i can't deny the subtle programming which has
led to our destruction as a species and a planet.

I myself do not have a toxic imagination; but it took
many years to deprogram myself.

Kev

Clarifications:

Yes, this post certainly has rant elements in it. But think about it this way..
one could be the happiest person in the world.. could be king of the world,
but if someone breaks into your home and urinates on everything, busts
everything up and steals the valuables, then it would be IRRATIONAL
not to express some passion about it and seek to rectify the situation.

Heck, I knew the majority of the substance of this post when I was 4
years old and was threatened with severe abuse the first time. There
has NEVER been a moment in my life, that has not been a 'scotty beam
me up! there is no intelligent life on this planet!' sort of moment.

But it did take a lot of years for me to figure out what had gone
wrong in detail.

As far as little read wagons go, here is the story:

"Long ago in another land and time, there were kingdoms at
war, which had a small shard border.

Although the two kingdoms were at war, they were economically
and culturally tied together, and there was a daily flow of foot
traffic and vehicle traffic between the two kingdoms.

One day a young boy with a little red wagon came up to the main
checkpoint between the kingdoms. The wagon had a pile of bricks
in it.

Alert guards challenged him to stop, certain that this innocent
little tyke was being used to smuggle weapons or contraband
in the pile of bricks (who would expect the little tyke to be
'in on no good'?). The guards unstacked very brick, and eventually
let him go, because they couldn't find anything. The little boy
smiled.

The next day, the boy comes around again, with his cute little
read wagon in tow.. this time with a pile of hay in it. Once
more the alert guards spent a long time sifting through the
straw, looking for the proverbial needle. They found nothing.
The little boy smiled a larger smile.

The third day, the little boy comes around again, this time with
a huge pile of stinky garbage in this shiny little red wagon..
the guards were more certain than ever the little boy was up
to something and got themselves all dirty, hot and stinky,
overturning each stone, turd, and broken bottle. Finally
they let him go.. swearing and raging. The little boy smiles
a huge smile, and starts to cross the border.

At the last instant before he crosses over into enemy territory,
the guards cry out, "we KNOW that you are smuggling something
over the border! Just tell us, or tomorrow we will shoot you!"

The little boy smiles the largest smile they'd ever seen and says,
"Ok. Fine. I'll tell you what I was smuggling ---


little red wagons".

Humans have been HAD for more than 6000 years now. We
confuse the contents of the wagon (the imagination) with
reality and don't see the red wagon itself (what has broken
the world).

It's really genius that a small handful of 'core equations
of world destruction' have had such an amazingly
bad effect.

Here is one of my favorite world destroyers;

The Soul
-----------

Step 1 - Take a happy social species in basic harmony with it's world.
Step 2 - Introduce the concept of an immaterial soul.
Step 3 - Introduce the concept of a far off heaven.
Step 4 - Link the concept of the 'soul' with the survival instinct
Step 5 - Link the imagination with the survival instinct
Step 6 - Sit back a few thousand years and watch the world be destroyed.

Why?

Humans don't have individual souls.
The concept of souls is a toxic part of the imagination.
By striving to have a soul, to cheat death, you link the toxic
imagination to the survival instinct. It forms a world-destroying
feedback loop.

In large part, to 'save the world', you'd have to turn off this
destruction loop; roll people back to the late neolithic.

Now.. people assume I'm all mister grumpsters / skeptic / atheist
and what not. That I want to rain on their parade.

Nothing could be further from the truth.. their parade has been lost
for a very long time.. I spend years trying to introduce basic concepts
that I can build upon, to get to a point where I can challenge people's
thinking.. get them out of the destruction loop.

Now... there are VERY interesting things to say about whats humans
really are.. what the nature of reality really is.... and the very
interesting situations humans find themselves in... its both very
boring and rather fascinating.

But just conveying the extreme basics is really the challenge..
people want to see all sorts of stuff.. but rarely can see "little red
wagons".

I hope that clarifies some.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Those folk weren't normal and educated Christians who read the bible and give to the poor like today, and I don't speak about American Fundamentalism, for that isn't the average world wide Christian either. The past doesn't portray Christianity in the least. And real early Christians were the essenes and gnostics. They were the real Christians.

People in the past lived under harsher conditions and rules and were not even allowed to read the bibles and the elite made those decisions.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

S&F, very well said. You'd love psychology and sociology I think.

I've always believed we would evolve into a species with similar traits to those in the movie Independence Day. Moving like locust because the human hunger for "more" and being "better" then the Jones' is insatiable.

originally posted by: Jenisiz
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

S&F, very well said. You'd love psychology and sociology I think.

I've always believed we would evolve into a species with similar traits to those in the movie Independence Day. Moving like locust because the human hunger for "more" and being "better" then the Jones' is insatiable.

We are that species right now. Just haven't made it into space very far yet.

The wholesale destruction of Earth began thousands of years ago. There are 3 new books out
on the topic just this month, written by real experts.

New Scientist

Kev

a reply to: Unity_99

I could spend pages going over history to refute your points;
but I don't have an ego that needs to do that.

The one thing I will dispute however, is that the Gnostics
HATED Christianity with their entire beings and spent
500 years disputing nearly everything about it, as at least
some of them saw what it would become.

Now, yes, there were a few Gnostic sects who "stayed close
to their enemy" and mixed real facts with Christianity,
and those are nearly the only records left, as Christians
spent over a thousand years obliterating Paganism,
including Gnosticism, which was the very heart of
Paganism.

But I don't want to be unpleasant towards you...
thanks for your input.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I couldn't have said it any better!! Being a long time lurker and a fan of your articles, I really enjoyed this one!

The imagination is a doubled edged sword of profound beauty! How do you think the first imaginations of the human or humans who accidentally ate a mushroom were like? How did he/she communicate this? Then you have to ask yourself, how did he use this to his advantage for survival? Was there a right and wrong concept by then? Or was it just pure instinct? Instinct gleaned from information received by imagination/altered states of consciousness/heightened awareness? Has the imagination become like the "mushroom"? Just my wonderings!!

Like you said.........Tapping the 'power' without succumbing to the 'peril' -
not so easy.

Nope, not so easy!! Great thread!! Keep them coming!!