Tired Of The Propaganda - "Support The Troops"

originally posted by: TheSpanishArcher
This had been pissing me off for a while now. I'm really tired of being told that our troops are fighting for our rights, that they are fighting to bring Democracy to other nations, that they are fighting to keep us safe when nothing could be further from the truth. Then we are told that if we don't support them and what they are doing we are unpatriotic or worse…..endless sporting events with veterans and active personnel there, then the announcers and sports talk jump on the bandwagon and tell us how grateful they are for them. I watch lots of ESPN and they are blatant with this junk, everyone praising our troops.

Bull. Friiking. Crap.

It's blatant propaganda and it pisses me off that I'm not considered a "good" American because I don't support our troops. How can I when anyone with a internet connection can take five minutes and learn how "WAR IS A RACKET!!!!!!" - courtesy of one Gen. Smedley Butler.

If you are too stupid to use the resources available to you to learn anything and choose to go fight in corporate wars then that is on you and you get all you deserve. I will not support you, at all. I usually say something like "I'm sorry,but...." but there's no I'm sorry here. I won't be sorry for people who kill for a government that doesn't care one whit about it's citizens unless they are billionaires(whom also reap the benefits of our wars).

Go ahead and try and guilt me into your position, it won't work. I may not be the sharpest tool in the shed but there is no way I can support troops fighting wars that are for profit and in now way, shape or form protect me or my rights. I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired of being told I'm no good, that I'm just a tin-foil hat wearing fool, that my opinion doesn't matter because I don't buy into the propaganda we are being sold.

Nobody tells you to listen to the propaganda! You want to be pissed, be pissed at the so called leaders that tell the troops where to go. Yeah, I support the troops because I was one; oh wait, you must have voted for Obama. You now get a pass.

originally posted by: watchitburn
a reply to: TheSpanishArcher

I've said it before, but I neither want nor need anyone's support. Keep it. Support yourself.

The vast majority of the young folks in the military don't know any better. Like much of America they only know what the idiot box tells them.

For the longest time I was oblivious to what was going on. Now I just do my best to educate and look out for the young Marines until they get the big picture.


But thinking everyone in the military is stupid, is a pretty stupid assertion.

Most of us are here because it's who we are. Bakers bake, carpenters build furniture, and soldiers fight wars.
We're all here to do, what we're all here to do.

So essentially what you are saying is that a soldiers profession is a very counter productive one.

At least you can eat what a baker makes and live in what a carpenter builds. What does a soldier provide for life? Peace? Freedom? Oppression? Destruction? How does one justify murder? War is justified murder. So are military personnel justifiable murderers? Is that "what you are"?

Maybe it's just me, but I cannot and will not support war, fighters or mongers. It is against my nature. Call me what you will, but I know in my heart and mind what is good and what is worth dying for. There is nothing today worth dying for. Especially an ideology/ nationality shrouded in meaningless cloth spun by the black hearts of media and money.

Cannon fodder...

CANNON FODDER!

Dear military,

There are scores of people, mostly your bosses, who are eroding our freedoms which your brothers and sisters of the past fought and died for.

Please protect us.

Sincerely,

The citizens you actually serve

originally posted by: Sparkymedic

originally posted by: watchitburn
a reply to: TheSpanishArcher

I've said it before, but I neither want nor need anyone's support. Keep it. Support yourself.

The vast majority of the young folks in the military don't know any better. Like much of America they only know what the idiot box tells them.

For the longest time I was oblivious to what was going on. Now I just do my best to educate and look out for the young Marines until they get the big picture.


But thinking everyone in the military is stupid, is a pretty stupid assertion.

Most of us are here because it's who we are. Bakers bake, carpenters build furniture, and soldiers fight wars.
We're all here to do, what we're all here to do.

So essentially what you are saying is that a soldiers profession is a very counter productive one.

At least you can eat what a baker makes and live in what a carpenter builds. What does a soldier provide for life? Peace? Freedom? Oppression? Destruction? How does one justify murder? War is justified murder. So are military personnel justifiable murderers? Is that "what you are"?

Maybe it's just me, but I cannot and will not support war, fighters or mongers. It is against my nature. Call me what you will, but I know in my heart and mind what is good and what is worth dying for. There is nothing today worth dying for. Especially an ideology/ nationality shrouded in meaningless cloth spun by the black hearts of media and money.

Cannon fodder...

CANNON FODDER!

Really? No conflict worth it? NOTHING worth dying for? You wouldn't sacrifice your own life to save the lives of your own children?

a reply to: MrPlow

Duh you're supposed to vote! Apparently that's supposed to save us from the idiotic masses who consistently elect despots.

OP You're standing by your view even after the peanut gallery did its best to shame you.

I for one support the right for you to post your ill regard that the men and women in the armed forces have died for.

It's not about what they're doing over there. It's not about who they're fighting.

It's the fact that they had the balls to sign up in the first place and be willing to die for your ability to not sign up if need be.
My high school classmate is in the Airforce and my cousin is in the Marines. My uncle is a former Marine and a family friend who passed away served two tours in Nam as Marine Recon. They signed up knowing full well, that if they were ordered to die, they would have to do so. Can you say the same about anything in your life? Do you have anything to believe in that you would give your life to defend?

Friggin people these days. Let's hate on the one thing standing between us and those who would wish to destroy or hurt us if given a chance. Let's hate on people who can't defend themselves and would gladly sacrifice themselves to help a complete stranger.

Sorry to say, but not every country or entity in the world are peace loving hippies that just want to get along.
You can't honestly sit there and tell me that nothing bad would happen if the standing military was disbanded tomorrow.
That would be delusional on your part.

Everything about your posts in this thread speaks volumes about your mental maturity and ability to grasp abstract concepts outside your little bubble.

Or you're a troll.
If so, 7/10. I responded

a reply to: TheSpanishArcher

We don't want nor need nor asked for your support.

I sure hope you're proficient with firearms or some form of self defense because you strike me like the type of person who hates the Police, the Military etc who will most likely end up as one of those who in a real SHTF scenario as an exemplification of Darwinism at it's finest. All things being considered that might not be such a bad outcome for the rest of us.

So, Sit all snuggly in your fairy tale world of Unicorns and Rainbows. I hope to hell you'll never need the services of those who are willing to put their lives on the line so people such as yourself can feel real safe and cozy while criticizing them for doing so.

Get over yourself.

originally posted by: rocklobster1
a reply to: TheSpanishArcher

We don't want nor need nor asked for your support.

I sure hope you're proficient with firearms or some form of self defense because you strike me like the type of person who hates the Police, the Military etc that will end up as one of those who in a real SHTF scenario as an exemplification of Darwinism at it's finest.

So, Sit all snuggly in your fairy tale world of Unicorns and Rainbows. I hope to hell you'll never need the services of those who are willing to put their lives on the line so people such as yourself can feel real safe and cozy while criticizing them for doing so.

Get over yourself.

Enjoy your war-torn SHTF scenario where everyone left is a psychopath willing to kill at the drop of a hat. I know I wouldn't want to live to see humanity degenerate even further.

What was it you said?

Oh yeah.

Get over yourself.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Many of us Volunteers in the VN era had low draft lottery Numbers.... We did not want to go through basic and Inf training and now with experience of much training in that era saw how draftees were treated....... lol as a coward, I wanted to stand tall next to heroes in an elite unit... Also more training the thought was better chances, survival instinct... Young dumb and full of hmmmm, lol, did not realize the missions would be worse (er ah more interesting).... Best men I ever knew, were men I stood shoulder to shoulder with. Worse of times and a few best of times, truth be told.... or as the Black Hats used to say, "Character building..."

TDawgRex as you say "they" have lightened up on the VN vets.... I still feel the pain of rejection in California and not having my job returned to me as promised by congress and the Union who backed my big Corp employer and not me as their dues paid up member, still hurts... I don't want to as you said "Rant" about this... but truth, again, be told that rejection led me to a better life paths, Uni then on to a Corp job wearing nice cloths, Company car etc. Also came by learning, the know how to move to a foreign land to escape the VN Vets being hated by fellow Californians who did not serve or would not understand to survive and build my own company....

We did not have the Internet in my era! Some of us were so hurt when we returned we joined the "VN Vets Against the War" to have a say, hey you are not treating us right and it saddens me that there are The Iraq Vets Against the War and The Afgan Vets Against the War. We had none of that in 1970! NOW some of us are on the "No Fly List" as a result of our exercising the Freedom of Speech. I can tell you my experience of the TSA, when I fly, THAT nobody has fought for my freedom of harassment and looking to fellow passengers like I was a terrorist. You may not understand the embarrassment flying with those who witnessed my getting that "special search"... This is why, I since 1999, fly with my medals.... The TSA change their attitude when finding these in my carry on, slightly, but they still have to perform the "Enemy of the State" style search.... Those that break into my hold baggage do not see those medals. I never fly with locked suitcases now and FedEx what I don't want "Lost"!

I support our troops, but, with the info that is out along with no draft, todays Vets made a choice in which they did not have to, strictly volunteer, and that saddens me. Hope you can see my point....

Also many of the enemy our soldiers are fighting since the first invasion of Iraq, I feel were made by our invasion... I would be, in fact I believe all of us would be, those people who are now terrorist who had a foreign army invading their lands and loved ones, who may have nothing to do with anything, were killed.... 911 to me was an inside job, ergo, no reason for war but that is a topic for some other thread... War makes freedom fighters on the "Other side"! By the way I was in the air on 911 and was part of that lottery too.... TDawgRex saw passport stamps and plane ticket as he called me a poser.....

Small joke, once in advance training it was rubbed into us that we were volunteers... when in tower week, I was all the way up, 250 feet of up and about to be released, the Black Hat yelled my number and asked me what I was.... I yelled, "Airborne"! "NO YOU ARE NOT MAGGOT you are an Airborne Volunteer - NOW WHAT ARE YOU (insert my number)?" At that point in time my opened Chute was released. I yelled back, "I am Airborne Now"! That got me 50 "Beat my Boots" LOL....

Forever supporting our troops just not their choice today!

Peace

Ice

To the men I served with thank you for getting me home alive.... broken but alive!

a reply to: TheSpanishArcher
You are entitled to your rant BUT....the fact that you chose 11th day of the 11th month shows what an a-hole you really are.

Sorry mods but ranting against the armed forces on Armistice Day revokes all his "rights" to respect.

IMHO.

a reply to: IceHappy

I signed up for the Army in 2003 RIGHT when Bush was going on about WMD's and other reasons for our invading that country. 9/11 and the Afghanistan war were fresh in our heads and we were looking for terrorists everywhere.

By the time I was deployed (2005), I already had a pretty good idea that the war was a sham (though I wasn't completely convinced yet). But once in the military, you can't opt out of being deployed. I signed up based on a lie and had no way to disagree when it came time for me to go play in the giant sandbox.

Takes a tungsten pair to come out with a thread like this, OP

I've been with my Gulf War vet husband for a decade (married for over 8 years) and we've argued this exact thing countless times. Eventually, even he came around & saw the brainwashing for what it was --- soldiers aren't fighting for nor protecting American freedoms domestically. They're doing a good deal of what I quantify as foreign dirty work for others. If it's someone else's (read: Iraq's/Afghanistan's/Libya's/Syria's/et al) fight, it's not ours. There is plenty of hyperbole out there screeching "Think of the children, what if they come here!" IF they come here full force, then it's our fight. Until then, it's not & we're meddling abroad in messes we don't need to be in, and calling it patriotism. WTH does Aziz the pro-Taliban fighter in the Afghani mountains have to do with what rights we have at home? Nothing, nothing whatsoever.

As to the respect culturally demanded of solider,it makes little sense to me. We have other jobs -- yes, JOBS -- equally as dangerous, and some more so, than enlisting. Where's their soapbox brigade? Where's the people demanding respect be given to the cops? Firefighters? Fishermen? Loggers? If it hinges on who's protecting our freedoms,where's the unabashed love for the politicians? They are, after all, the ones deciding what freedoms we get to keep and ditch to begin with (sorry, vets ,you're not in charge of that, really)

Illogic always befalls those who do & think as they're told unquestioningly. We need to stop that crap.

a reply to: Nyiah

It must be said that while, yes, our active engagements are doing nothing to protect American citizens' lives; the military IS still protecting American freedoms. When was the last time that America was attacked by a foreign enemy? 1941. Before that? 1811.

Yes, being isolated from Europe and Asia probably helps, but we have two large borders to our north and south that foreign enemies could come from. They could also attempt to cross the Pacific or Atlantic and secure a beachhead, but good luck breaking the US naval blockade to secure that beachhead.

The very fact that our military exists and has soldiers in it, keeps American freedoms safe. And many people who complain about our troops not protecting our freedoms anymore forget that. I do agree that the wars we've fought since WWII were all pretty irrelevant to American freedoms, but that doesn't mean those soldiers weren't protecting freedoms. If America were MUCH weaker militarily, do you think we'd have gone so long without being attacked by foreign enemies?

a reply to: TheSpanishArcher

SA, i agree with you and it all ties in with The US's "cult of the patriot" as i tend to think of it.

I know many former soldiers though, and while i find their choice of effectively trusting politicians and generals with their lives to be anywhere from naive to full on batpoop insane; i respect what are usually their good-intentions - to protect their country etc, however however different the truth may be and whether they recognise this or not.

But you picked a tactless day to do this and deserve to know... one of the reasons i support the Royal British Legion's Poppy Appeal and observe the 2 mins silence is not so much for the fallen soldiers of today (who had a choice), or even the conscripts of past wars - but for those family that they left behind.

For those members that may have lost a father, brother, husband, son etc, another day may have been kinder.

a reply to: TheSpanishArcher

I think our troops should be honest and drop that line of BS that "they defend our freedoms". When logically faced with the fact that no threat of conquest existed, they say that what is meant is that they WOULD defend our freedoms.... yet so would I and I am not a practitioner of the profession of arms. Should I too then be praised for just being born and choosing a profession?

The last time our freedoms were defended by our armed forces was in WW2. We were faced with conquest. Our very freedom was threatened. Explain to me how Iraq was going to invade us.

So then logic moves us onto saying that they defend our prosperity. That is true, but still not really for us as a people and not in a more meaningful way than an American business coming up and producing prosperity directly. The armed forces defend the interests of our wealthy and our wealthy make fortune possible in our country...so Maybe. That service is not then as noble and certainly not as sacred as the defense of your people against an aggressor.

What is noble in a soldier is that he or she will do what is asked of them with no need of glory or praise. They do what must be done when others are not able or willing to do so. They do so with no more reward in mind other than the sense of honor in the service to others.

It cheapens what a soldier is when we say they defend our freedoms through interventionism.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Honestly, diplomats deserve more credit than they're given when it comes to dealing with hostile countries & entities. I very highly doubt the size of our military or it's existence is factor numero uno here. Our population size is also another thing to consider -- 300+ million against a few thousand militants. Who's gonna croak first, Mahmoud & his buddies, or armed Joe-John & his few million armed buddies? It doesn't really take a full military to defend what's yours, people do protect their property & lives when called for.

a reply to: Nyiah

Oh there are definitely more variables at work than just our military preventing us from being invaded, that is a given. The universe is never so simple to just have one or two reasons for something. But something must be said for the guy walking around carrying the biggest stick. The intimidation factor is HUGE. If you've ever been the victim of bullying (or knew someone who was), size makes it hard for the victim to strike back at the aggressor.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Corporations have attacked and raped USA continuously, no need for armies.

They just need you to always believe that you are on the brink of being attacked, and you will keep policing everything to fit the world as it has been shaped, and keep everything in line.

The problem with chanting praises to the armed forces during every sporting event, every dam televised event every day, is has become over the top, rather sickening, and we start to feel that this IS a military dictatorship.

Oh wait, maybe it IS, and this is the proof.

Further proof would be that laws have been rewritten so any real protesting of corporate controlled government are met with MILITARY FORCE, and shut down effectively.

Never again will we see or hear of anything real in the form of protests, and really they never happened anyways.

The constitution is not protected by any standing armies, but is USED as a tool for keeping people in line....

In no way is it truthful to say that human rights are being protected by standing armies, they are REALLY just making sure that the GANGS that run the world, KEEP running things exactly the way they are.

And they will not admit that the economy is designed to run this way, and ONLY this way, NO VOTE, or any form of protest or VOTING is ever going to change anything, and revolution is suicide, with the military sworn to protect ONLY the corporations ideas of how the world should work, and every other dam GANGS that are profiting.

a reply to: skalla

Who the hell cares about TACT when dealing with truthful and realistic complaints.

We have been bombarded more and more with military greatness ads all over everything we see, and today almost every channel is blindly and solemnly showing us that we should revere the men that do all the fighting....my own grandfather who died last year flew in WW2, and even he admits the war was a gong show.

It is time to salute things other than the "SOLDIER FOLLOWING ORDERS" like the guy had any choice at that point anyways, but time to salute those who might actually do something productive in this world.

But oh wait, all of them must be conspiracy theorists for not believing everything the news tells them.