Jesus Christ Had Two Kids With A Prostitute, ‘Lost Gospel’ Claims

originally posted by: HAZE3
a reply to: Sremmos80

Bible reference to the siblings of Jesus is Mark 6:3 in the new testament

...which clearly says that Jesus had four brothers and at least two sisters. Joseph must have worked overtime in his carpenter shop to feed all those mouths (unless food multiplication was a family trait).

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

The text is generally considered now to be First century;

James Charlesworth writes: "That Joseph and Asenath is a fifth-century Christian work, based upon a Jewish writing, is a dated conclusion (P. Batiffol, Le Livre de la Prière d'Asénath [Studia Patristica 1-2] Paris: Leroux, 1889-1890). That it is an early, perhaps late first-century A.D., Jewish composition is a contemporary perspective (cf. C. Burchard, Untersuchungen zu Joseph und Aseneth [WUNT 8] Tübingen: Mohr, 1965; see esp. pp. 148-51; Philonenko, no. 1003; A.-M. Denis, no. 24, pp. 40-48). Most scholars now contend that the original language is Greek (Burchard, Untersuch., pp. 91-99; Philonenko, no. 1003, pp. 27-32). The parallels with the Dead Sea Scrolls have raised the possibility of influence from the Essenes, or more probably from the Therapeutae; some scholars affirm a relationship

Joseph and Aseneth

It doesn't really challenge any Christian perspective because the Messianic archetypes involved are those of a Josephic Messiah, not Davidic-Judaic, thus it cannot directly relate to the claims of Jesus.

Despite the authors claims that it was originally written in Syriac and that direct translation from that gives a decoded perspective rather than the translation from the Greek, it was probably composed in Greek because the mystical traditions it involves itself with, the Bees of Aseneth find best realization in Greek.

The Greek word for ‘fate’, ‘death’ and ‘goddess of death’ is ‘e ker’ (feminine); the word for’heart’ and ‘breast’ is ‘to ker’ (neuter); while the word for ‘honeycomb’ is ‘to kerion’ (neuter). The common root ‘ker’ links the ideas of the honeycomb, goddess, death, fate and the human heart, a nexus of meanings that is illumined if we know that the goddess was once imagined as a bee


The 3rd century Greek philosopher and mathematician Porphyry of Tyre believed that souls arrived on earth in the form of Bees, having descended from the moon goddess Artemis, and that they were lured to terrestrial life by the promise of earthly delights, such as honey. Ironically, honey was also a symbol of death and was frequently used as an offering to the gods. The dualistic quality of honey is no coincidence, as the nectar and its maker – the Bee, appear to represent the very cycle of existence. One could say that as the Bee returns to its hive, so the Melissa returns to its god in the afterlife; the beginning is the end and the end is the beginning.

Despite all of this the symbolism involved often bears comparison with the Christian Apocalyptic literature of the First century and it has its own place in that context, so the work should find consideration as part of the greater Christian mystery tradition.

Apocalyptic imagery in Joseph and Aseneth

a reply to: windword

The Bible IS NOT an historic document. Just because there are actual historic places and people woven into the story doesn't make it true. To take the Gospels as anything more than contemporary mythology is not realistic scholarship.

This statement, while you may believe it sincerely, is not true. You see rejecting a miracle claim in history comes from a philosophical bias. Its not good history.

Let me show you some of the writers we base a lot of our history on, and the closest available document we have:

Lucretius(Hes a poet and philosopher, so not really a historical reference here)
Born 99 BC
Died 55 BC

Thought to have one known work its earliest copy of this work that we have is comes about 1000 years after his death? Do you believe this is Lucretius work?

Pliny the younger(61 AD 112 AD)

Earliest copies we have of his work come 750 years after his Death? Do you trust any of the information in these?

Herodotus(484 BC 425 BC)

About a span of 1300 years between the work we have and this life of the writer

Thucydides(460 BC 395 BC)

Earliest copy is again about 1300 years....

By Richard M. Fales, Ph.D.
No other ancient book is questioned or maligned like the Bible. Critics looking for the flyspeck in the masterpiece allege that there was a long span between the time the events in the New Testament occurred and when they were recorded. They claim another gap exists archaeologically between the earliest copies made and the autographs of the New Testament. In reality, the alleged spaces and socalled gaps exist only in the minds of the critics. Manuscript Evidence. Aristotle’s Ode to Poetics was written between 384 and 322 B.C. The earliest copy of this work dates A.D. 1100, and there are only forty-nine extant manuscripts. The gap between the original writing and the earliest copy is 1,400 years. There are only seven extant manuscripts of Plato’s Tetralogies, written 427–347 B.C. The earliest copy is A.D. 900—a gap of over 1,200 years. What about the New Testament? Jesus was crucified in A.D. 30. The New Testament was written between A.D. 48 and 95. The oldest manuscripts date to the last quarter of the first century, and the second oldest A.D. 125. This gives us a narrow gap of thirty-five to forty years from the originals written by the apostles. From the early centuries, we have some 5,300 Greek manuscripts of the New Testament. Altogether, including Syriac, Latin, Coptic, and Aramaic, we have a whopping 24,633 texts of the ancient New Testament to confirm the wording of the Scriptures. So the bottom line is, there was no great period between the events of the New Testament and the New Testament writings. Nor is there a great time lapse between the original writings and the oldest copies.

www.livingwaters.com...


There are more but I think I have made my point. Again its key to remember the Bible is 66 different books and letters that were written by 40 authors. So when I pull one book as evidence for something in a different book, I am not relying on the Bible for the Bible but different sources from a large span of history.

a reply to: Kantzveldt

The work is anonymous and its author unknown. The dating is contentious, and it is not even clear whether this is a Jewish or a Christian work (or neither). The earliest version is in Syriac and dates from the sixth century AD. Most modern scholarship treats it as a Jewish work dating some time from first century BC to the second AD. Batiffol (who produced the first critical edition) and, more recently, Kraemer have argued that it was originally a Christian work, dating from the fourth or fifth centuries. Kraemer suggests connections with works like Acts of Thomas.

I don't really care how scholars treat it. There is no reason to assume that this is historically accurate. Earliest copy we have is 6th century. That is way to far out there compared to the rest of our books. Not only that Joseph and Aseneth has nothing to do with the Joseph that supposedly married Mary. Joseph and Aseneth is about the Joseph in Genesis. Two different Josephs.

Can you imagine the outcries when it transpires Mohammed had a harem of Christian boys!

I do find it amusing that no one is throthing at the mouth at the concept of a chap called Jesus Christ may have had an incestual relationship (or the product of one) leading to or a result of his Autism.

Jesus was black.

a reply to: duaneology

Well he most certainly was not of Caucasian ethnicity. That being said other than the Bible there is not exactly any other evidence to suggest he existed so colour or creed are rather irrelevant.

a reply to: andy06shake

I thought there were other historical non-biblical texts and records that mention Jesus?

Oh who knows...it was probably just bullshxt brainwashing lies they told me in Catholic School.

a reply to: andy06shake

You do know Semitic/Persian are Caucasian right? Was he a whitey? No, but he most probably was caucasian.

a reply to: raymundoko

Ethnicity aside, lets just say if indeed he existed he most certainly did not look like this.

I don't like Christians. I think they are as dangerous and backwards as any extremist religious group. More so in fact because they conceal their true motives and beliefs.

a reply to: duaneology

What exactly do you think a Christians true motives and beliefs are?

a reply to: raymundoko

The same as every other religion...convert or eliminate all nonbelievers. But Christians don't like to get their hands dirty. They prefer to let young men and women in uniform do their slaughtering for them.

Oh wow...something different Christianity hasn't already stolen from a religion that predates it by over 4000 years. Ironically...this isn't really news. If you glimpse other religions, those that Christianity stole from...you'll find this concept of Jesus having children very common. Just under different names. But EXACTLY the same story...and predating Jesus by over 2k years. I know of several that predate Jesus...that Christianity "borrowed" from. Below are just two...



Attis - was born on December 25 of the Virgin Nana. He was considered the savior who was slain for the salvation of mankind. His body as bread was eaten by his worshippers. He was both the Divine Son and the Father. On “Black Friday,” he was crucified on a tree, from which his holy blood ran down to redeem the earth. He descended into the underworld. After three days, Attis was resurrected.

Dionysus - was born of a virgin on December 25 and, as the Holy Child, was placed in a manger. He was a traveling teacher who performed miracles. He “rode in a triumphal procession on an ass.” He was a sacred king killed and eaten in an eucharistic ritual for fecundity and purification. Dionysus rose from the dead on March 25. He was the God of the Vine, and turned water into wine. He was called “King of Kings” and “God of Gods.” He was considered the “Only Begotten Son,” Savior,” “Redeemer,” “Sin Bearer,” Anointed One,” and the “Alpha and Omega.” He was identified with the Ram or Lamb. His sacrificial title of “Dendrites” or “Young Man of the Tree” intimates he was hung on a tree or crucified.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

The Gospels have been proven to be unreliable as a history book! They're all anonymously written and contradict each other. They're full of mistakes and interpolations.

The dates are all wrong. According to Josephus, John the Baptist died in 36AD. www.josephus.org...

The Star Of Bethlehem could only be Caesar's Comet of 44BC. It's the only actual celestial observation on record that fits the biblical description near that time, anyway.

The earthquakes and the darkening of the sky, the day of his death, if we're to take these Bible stories as literal history, could only be the volcanic eruption of Mount Vesuvious and the destruction of the Roman "Las Vegas" Pompeii in 79 AD.

So when did this Jesus guy live?

There is another manuscript that shows Jesus as married. It's just a fragment
really but has been given the name of: "Gospel of Jesus' Wife."

Here is a link to the Harvard professor that studied it: Harvard

and the Wikipedia link: Wikipedia

--TomS

Text a reply to: windword

What's your point? You come into a thread about Jesus being married and attack/mock those who question his existence, in the first place.

Apparently you have a short memory problem. Show me in my posts where I have mocked anyone for questioning the Christian Jesus' existence. Utter nonsense. Return to my yesterday posting and re read your embarrassing nonsense which I tried to overlook. I stated to you that I had no affiliation with any religious denomination and that my opinions were strictly academic fairness. No one attacked or mocked anyone from this isle. Your conscience may be affecting your judgment.

There is no evidence, outside of the Bible of your Jesus of Nazareth. Speculating what someone probably really meant, 2000 years ago just, doesn't qualify as scholarship or proof.

Yes there is literary evidence that Jesus existed and in fact more so than the great historians who are taught in universities throughout this nation. I gave you several examples such as Herodotus 484-425 BCE who has only 75 copies of work compared to 5,700 copies of Apostolic work. Can you then tell me that Herodotus actually existed? Show me your proof that this man existed other than literature. Then I gave you another example of Thucydides 460-395 BCE who has only a mere 20 copies of work compared to well over 5,700 copies of Apostolic work. Please show me proof where this man has ever existed.

You stated "Your Jesus". How did you determine that statement when I have never even inferred my belief on this thread? Who does the "qualifying as scholarship" in this American secular environment? Can you find history in the Apostolic literature? You have stated that it doesn't qualify. Does that mean that all of the contents of the bible are bogus? Is that what you are trying to postulate? Yet you cling to Herodotus who is as much if not more a mystery than the Christian Jesus. Is this because you are in the same camp of the secularists who run this education of which we are 21st of all nations in both science and math? What an example of ignorance from a once greatest nation on earth.

You are very confused in your joining this thread's discussion. The thread has nothing to do with proving the existence of the Christian Jesus. Contrary to your rant it verifies the literary existence of the Christian Jesus as does the 5,700 manuscripts of Apostolic work. Both camps agree that the Christian Jesus did exist and leaves you with the choice of which camp to believe. According to your inferences you believe neither as you reject this Christian Jesus as bogus. So with that thought you have made it clear to me that you pick and choose your beliefs the same as most people. That is not considered being fair academia. That was my point from the onset of this discussion.

Text The Bible IS NOT an historic document. Just because there are actual historic places and people woven into the story doesn't make it true. To take the Gospels as anything more than contemporary mythology is not realistic scholarship.

Once again you have made my point. You have revealed to me that you have chosen to believe that the Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek manuscripts in book form are mythology. With that said, by you, then this entire newly revealed manuscript is, in your opinion, mythological. You can't have it both ways. If the Apostolic literature is mythology so then is this one manuscript mythology. Both are theological just as I postulated from the onset but being theological does not necessarily prove that it is mythology. If this Christian Jesus is woven into a fable then there is no more to be said regardless of the amount of manuscripts which insist otherwise. Both camps of theology are just that. Theology. Tacitus is accepted as scholarship and no literature can even reveal his birth date much less prove his existence. This proves my point exactly. American academia is just as prejudiced as any other nation and being prejudiced deprives its people education. That is my point.

Why in the world would it be encoded in some top secret coded message only some people can understand.That enough should tell you it is crap.This stupid stuff gets as looney as the 9/11 Truther nonsense.

originally posted by: Jobeycool
Why in the world would it be encoded in some top secret coded message only some people can understand.That enough should tell you it is crap.This stupid stuff gets as looney as the 9/11 Truther nonsense.

The 9/11 truther movement has more evidence then that of Christianity. Faith is the mask of ignorance. The evidence of Jesus being an idea or character "borrowed" is insurmountable. His story was created from previous "sons of god" that predate his birth by thousands of years. Faith that Jesus is the one and only true son of god requires ignorance in the dozens of stories that predate him.

Personally I don't find this article to be too outlandish. After all, since the story of Jesus was borrowed, it would be safe to assume the parts of him having children should be true too.

This is a hoax. And an old, clearly debunked hoax at that. Still unable to figure out why destroying and attacking the spirituality of others is such a high priority for some people on ATS.