Teacher Unions Dump $80 million Into 2014 Midterms: Result is an F+

a reply to: Aazadan

BTW I agree with you. I first believe strongly in worth ethic. My 2 daughters both had their first jobs at age 13. I made sure they were there every work day and on time. Also, "not my job" is unacceptable.

They were not "students". Not everyone is a book learner. One was ADD, the other probably on the high functioning Autism spectrum.

Kinda runs in my family. I call my ancestors the useless geniuses. They all seemed to have strong ethics, and brilliant minds --- but an independent streak of "I'll do it myself, my way". They don't fit the mold.

People can complain about all the changes being made in public schools, but it seems to be working in my favor. However, it requires that I as a "parent" take initiative.

My 6 year old grandson, who's high-functioning on the spectrum has a team of 5 personally monitoring him and designing a school plan just for him.

It involves me personnaly being part of the plan. Maybe he will be the one who will go on to higher education..

I sure don't want these special programs cut.

I'm in full support of the teachers unions doing everything they can to keep them.

a reply to: Annee

My interaction with the public school system these days is pretty low but from what I've seen I like common core. I'm in a field that's pretty math heavy, and it's something I happen to be decent at. I can do most forms of math in my head very quickly (as a hobby I play a few card games, being able to do probability in my head is a great advantage there), but a lot of people I meet need calculators for simple things. I remember a few weeks back there was a thread here about common core math and how it was overly complicating the concept of addition. The example they used was not teaching 9+6=15 but rather that 9+6 becomes 10+5 and then 10+5=15.

Many people in the thread here came out against it, but there were a couple of us in the thread who actually understand math and were quite happy to see this approach because it results in teaching students how to compute more advanced problems quickly without the need for a calculator. That leads to much better math performance overall.

The only thing I can say on that front is that I wish the English standards focused more on developing critical thought by making students do their own writing. Reading comprehension is of course important but being able to come up with your own thoughts and convey them is equally important.

But, overall I think our grade schools take the wrong approach to education. I understand the appeal of wanting to take the Asian path of ridiculous levels of homework and lots of classroom time. On the surface that seems to make sense, but if you look at Finland they take the completely opposite approach and have even better results. I think we should start by developing a broad knowledge base and as students advance through grades narrowing and specializing their classes to focus on areas of interest.

Then again I also support adding two more years of school, with the final two years being similar to what you get out of an Associates Degree these days without all of the general education requirement baggage.

originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: Annee

My interaction with the public school system these days is pretty low but from what I've seen I like common core.

I was not a fan of Common Core, but the more I'm involved with it, the more I am in favor.

School is definitely not babysitting anymore. Parent involvement is critical. That really is the difference, the parents.

Grandson is in kindergarten. Very much about writing, writing stories, communicating ideas, etc. He reads at at least 3rd grade level. He can also add and subtract.

His issue is staying focused, working as a team, and following directions. I know some think this is "robot" conditioning, but I understand the point of life skills. The hard part is finding the balance.

So yeah, fighting for public schools is important to me.

It sucks it has to be so political.

a reply to: Aazadan

So, of course, I had to go read up on Finnish schools.

It actually sounds like what they're doing at my grandsons school. We were not happy about him repeating kindergarten. We asked for reevaluation. BUT, we did sign the papers to go along with the schools evaluation.

We are happy we did. Still, I had to make sure he was getting what he needed. He now gets spelling lists instead of the primary site words.

a reply to: xuenchen

that'll learn em!

originally posted by: Annee
His issue is staying focused, working as a team, and following directions. I know some think this is "robot" conditioning, but I understand the point of life skills. The hard part is finding the balance.

Teamwork is important. In just about every job you will ever do, not to mention many school projects you have to function as a team. Individual ability is great of course, but real success comes from getting several people with talent together and having them work as one unit. It's not robot conditioning at all. We're social animals, that means teamwork.

So...about $24 bucks a teacher? Mere peanuts.

Why shouldn't they invest in candidates they believe in like anyone else does?

Another molehill moment.

a reply to: Aazadan

My issue with common core is that it is one step further towards making teachers into robots. Many teachers I used to work with already are. The idea that every student in every school receives the same education is only possible to attain if they force teachers down to the lowest common denominator. As a mathematics professor I am all for bumping up the level of mathematics required. Most United States citizens are terrible at mathematics, logic, analyses, application.... critical thinking. However, I was not given any freedom to deviate from the approved plans.

In short: yes to increasing the rigor, no to trying to force the same experience to every student in every school (regardless of teacher.)

originally posted by: TycoonBarnaby
a reply to: Aazadan

My issue with common core is that it is one step further towards making teachers into robots. Many teachers I used to work with already are. The idea that every student in every school receives the same education is only possible to attain if they force teachers down to the lowest common denominator. As a mathematics professor I am all for bumping up the level of mathematics required. Most United States citizens are terrible at mathematics, logic, analyses, application.... critical thinking. However, I was not given any freedom to deviate from the approved plans.

In short: yes to increasing the rigor, no to trying to force the same experience to every student in every school (regardless of teacher.)

Pretty much what I thought until I got a bit more involved in it.

Starting off in kindergarten. We'll see how it goes.

Definitely not babysitting, that's for sure.

a reply to: Annee

You got involved in it with your 1 child, in kindergarten.

I was teaching 6 mathematics classes a day for 10th, 11th, and 12th graders (during the transition years into Common Core.) Not to mention the numerous meetings, planning, and discussions looking in-depth to what Common Core mathematics is. I would say I was a bit more involved in it.

You are free to believe what you want, but I stand by my own. Common Core, and the entire public education system in the United States is in shambles, and it looks to me to be getting worse.

a reply to: TycoonBarnaby

I'm a grandmother. I raised my 2 daughters, one of which is ADD. Helped raise my now 21 year old grandson, who's mom worked 2 jobs because his dad chose drugs over him. Currently living with and helping raise 14 year old granddaughter, who looks a lot like Dakota Fanning, in the Los Angeles beach area not too far from Hollywood (Girl competitive to the max).

And my youngest, the 6 year old. High functioning/autistic behavior, taught himself to read at age 3.

I'm very capable of making discernments in children's education.

So far, you've shown a single focus on math. Not everyone has an aptitude for math. Or even cares.

I believe those who seek that focus will find the advanced education they desire.

originally posted by: TycoonBarnaby
a reply to: Annee

You are free to believe what you want, but I stand by my own. Common Core, and the entire public education system in the United States is in shambles, and it looks to me to be getting worse.

Common core itself isn't that big a deal. You are correct about the rest though. Like everything else we are just bailing water until the ship sinks hoping someone else will come along and fix it.

originally posted by: TycoonBarnaby
a reply to: Aazadan

My issue with common core is that it is one step further towards making teachers into robots. Many teachers I used to work with already are. The idea that every student in every school receives the same education is only possible to attain if they force teachers down to the lowest common denominator.

I've got a bit of a mathematics aptitude myself. As a kid I was labeled a math genius but that wasn't really true, I just had some very good teachers who explained things in a way where I was able to instantly understand them and I can compute in my head very fast. I can really only speak for myself here but I've found most math classes to be a bit dry. They teach a person how to manipulate and determine numbers but they don't really teach you how to use that. You have word problems in books, but since when are those problems realistic or applicable to the person using the book? I would love to see less time spent on teaching math and more time spent actually using math. I think that would improve scores a lot because it would suddenly be interesting.

For an example, lets take matrix transforms. You can show people how to use them, or you can create a dataset and build a social network analysis out of that data and show what data is related to what other data. Take the idea from
kieranhealy.org... That is so much more interesting than simply having a person multiply two matricies together to get a result.

originally posted by: Annee
And my youngest, the 6 year old. High functioning/autistic behavior, taught himself to read at age 3.

I too taught myself to read young, I don't know the exact age but by age 3 back in 1985 I was able to use my dads fancy computer as well as the modem to go online and read/sometimes post on BBS's. The reading comprehension portions of standardized tests (never scored below 99 percentile on any) always seemed to me like a joke. It wasn't until after I was an adult and found out that people really can't comprehend the things they read that I realized those tests weren't just free points. I imagine it's the same for your grandson... I always found the books I had to read bland. Your grandson is still a few years away but I remember the first book I actually enjoyed reading in school and it was Animal Farm in 9th or 10th grade. I liked it so much that it was a 10 week assignment and I had finished the book by the second night. Then I read it again. Huck Finn, Brave New World, Nineteen-Eighty-Four, those books were all torture to me (though I like 1984 these days). That's the problem with reading at a higher level, a lot of books just come across as bland. Of Mice and Men, Animal Farm, and a few others were the only ones I actually enjoyed, and as a result the only ones I read critically.

So far, you've shown a single focus on math. Not everyone has an aptitude for math. Or even cares.

I believe those who seek that focus will find the advanced education they desire.

Math is a very important thing to know. Not all fields need it but the basics of addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, and simple algebra are common place enough in life that a person should know them. If you want to be a construction contractor you need geometry and trig, if you want to program computers you need trig and calculus, if you want to sit in business administration you need to know how to set up algebra problems.

My feeling on the subject is that we should keep the goals of math up to about 8th grade the same as they are now. Once people get into high school we can start filtering them based on likely jobs and get more specific each year. Maybe Freshman year divides you into categories like trades, technology, artist, or athelete.

The tradespeople get algebra with a focus on memorizing specific formulas, materials analysis, types of trades, and shop time to try pipefitting, carpentry, plumbing, automotive repair, and all the rest. so they can move on to something more specific.

The technology people get some basic computer usability classes, an introduction to simple regex, frontend/backend database/spreadsheets, some programming, networking, and diagnostics. Their math could be algebra with a focus on figuring out how to set up the needed equation.

The artists get to try several styles from writing, painting, conducting, and all the rest. Art requires a broad approach in order to really figure out your technique. It could be 2d drawing, it could be 3d modeling, or it could be photography. Their math classes would involve understanding a predefined logic system, and manipulating it for the correct output. Basically they would be given the problem and have to solve it but unlike for the tradespeople it's not about the answer but rather the logic system in how you've arrived at your answer.

Athletes I don't know enough about to comment on.

Anyways those suggestions would be say 9th-10th grade. Then you could get more specific, and by the time you graduate you have a reasonable level of job skills. I hope this makes sense to more than just me.

a reply to: tavi45

People love to talk about the good old days, when teachers taught. When exactly was that?

I was in primary school in the 50s. It was very much the same as today.

Focus was on the "middle-of-road" kid. If you were on either side of that, you were pretty much on your own. My brother tested IQ 150 in 1st grade. He was shoved to the side and expected to take care of himself.

It was read, memorize, take a test. One time the teacher assigned us to write about conservation in our neighborhood --- in our own words. He actually gave me an A++, and used my writing as an example, because I was the only student who didn't take it out of a textbook. Then I had to bring a note from my mom saying I actually wrote it, because he didn't believe me. I was bored and lathargic in class because of "no thinking required". I was a thinker.

Again, so far, in kindergarten I like what's going on. I may change that thought next year. Don't know yet.

And I support the Teachers union.

a reply to: Annee

People love to talk about the good old days, when teachers taught. When exactly was that?

Well it wasn't the 80s from my recollection. I think it was one of those mystical eras that are elusive as unicorns.

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: Annee

People love to talk about the good old days, when teachers taught. When exactly was that?

Well it wasn't the 80s from my recollection. I think it was one of those mystical eras that are elusive as unicorns.

I think you're right. It's a myth for sure.

Wasn't the 50s, unless you were a white Christian heterosexual male.

What it is --- is selective memory. Everything comes down to parenting, mostly. There are the few independent kids who do it on their own, in spite of adversity.

So, yes I support teachers unions being political, cuz it's the only way. Everything is political these days, or so it seems.