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The EU and Turkey

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posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 07:51 AM
As many of you probably know, Turkey is pushing real hard to enter the European Union. They've found some allies and some "enemies" in their attempt. The most shocking fact is the absolute silence of the English-speaking medias on the topic, with European medias close behind. I've only been able to find some news in French and Italian (if you are interested I can post the links), and most of them contain heavy criticism to this opening. Living in Europe, I am very interested in the topic, since I am also an opponent of Turkey's entry into the Union. First of all, I can quote President Chirac "we still have to make the 25-members EU work properly before accepting new members". Unusually wise words. In fact, the French government is the only one openly opposing the move. Others (like the Spanish or Dutch ones) stay silent, while Italy and Germany are openly lobbying to have Turkey accepted as soon as possible. The reasons are not hard to see: economics. Italian and German firms are litterally drooling at the opportunity of opening new factories in Turkey, with EU financing, cheap labor, no import fees to Europe (Schengen Treaty), cheaper goods transport than the Far East and non-existant trade unions with a very strong military-backed government to keep the populace in check. It's like having a China in your backyard. You don't believe me? I can quote a leading Italian tycoon in an interview I read on Monday. He said "There are very good countries to invest into right now". The naive reporter asked: "China?" and he replied: "No, Turkey. They have very low labor costs and their IMMINENT ENTRANCE in the EU will improve things for investors" (La Repubblica, 12/7/2004).
The EU has already proposed to Turkey an economic treaty that will make trade between the two parts easier, with next-to-zero fees, incentives for European investors and so on. But Turkish premier Erdogan said "Either EU member status or nothing" (La Padania, 12/9/2004). It's easy to see why: being an EU member will make you eligible to recieve hefty cash help, and will give you the right to sit in the Bruxelles parliament. This is very important, since the number of seats is based on population: Turkey has about 70 million inhabitants. It would be the second country in the EU parliament, after Germany (82 millions), well ahead of France (60 millions) and Italy (56 millions). Add to this that a further 4 millions Turks live in Germany and an even further 3 millions German citizens born of Turkish parents (data source: CIA World Factbook, 11/30/2004 edition) and you can see that they will become the most powerful force in the EU parliament. As French Prime Minister Raffarin rightly remarked: "The last comer would become the most powerful force in the EU legislature".

posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 07:58 AM
I understand your thought entirely but I am on the other side of the fence. I am quite happy for Turkey to join, but I do also see the potential for problems as you have pointed out.

Here is some information, from the NNC website. They do keep on top of the situation so you may want to watch out for news there.

Here is an initial link, others are supplied on the page.

posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 08:03 AM

The reasons are not hard to see

The SPD Government wants them in, the Christian Opposition wants them out.
(sorta they want a priviliged partnership)
And they are right. It would be the biggest member and how can the biggest member in europe not be european at all?

posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 08:06 AM
Turkey in, of course! UK out ! Ireland out!

The French are upset that they will loose relevance the more EU grows.
Well , they better get used to it, it will happen. If anyone thought EU was going to be someone's little club they got it very wrong, it will be too big to be anyone's toy.

If they French don't like it they could consider joining the UK!

Welcome to the EU, my Ottoman Friends!!!
We need your help to keep the French and the Germans in line!
They are getting ideas

posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 08:10 AM
Iteresting point about the population size... i never though about it.

So they would be 2nd behing Germany... [o


Dosen't change my stand point though, they are european (see history and the fact that they are on both sides of the Bosphorus) and therefore should be part of the greater europe we are trying to build.

posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 08:15 AM
Yes Turkey is in Europe. The way of life in Turkey is different that alot of the current EU. This is why I support them joining, embracing another culture is a wonderful thing.

posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 08:20 AM

see history

They tried to take over Vienna some times .And that was about it what they had to do with European history .
The Eastern Roman Empire that could be considered european has been wiped out.
And only a very very very small part of turkey. Is actually in europe. Only one city.

There are larger Parts of Russia in Europe than of Turkey.

posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 10:23 AM
Thanks for not jumping at my throat right away. I am not entirely hostile to Turkey joining the EU in the long term. The Union was barely working with the historical 12 members. The latest additions (including Romania and Bulgaria, which will join in 2007) have brought up this number to 25. That's a very large number. There's a number of problems to iron out, including very different living standards, different industrial and commercial politics, and so on. Some new members are already doing very well (like Slovenia and the Czech Republic), while others still have a very long way to go (like Slovakia). The two next members worry me very much, since both countries are currently in a paltrous state, owing to a series a disastrous governments, poor economic conditions and, at least for Romania, ruthless economic exploitation by foreign countries. I doubt that they will able to address the main problems in just three years, let alone improve their living conditions, basic services etc and this will bring lots of problems to the EU. Then there's not irrelevant topic of EU funding: take the agriculture, for example. Right now French farmers get about 40% of all EU funds in this field. Spain gets about 20% and Italy and Greece about 10% each. This leaves German, Danish, Slovenian and all the other farmers fighting over the remaining 20%, while French and Spanish produce are so cheap they are often preferred over local foodstuff by big distributors across Europe. Infrastuctural funding? Spain, Portugal and Greece have the lion's share, with Italy coming close next and claiming for more. The new members reclaim their share also: after all they are handing a growing share of their budget and national sovranity over to the EU and they'd like to see something in return. We have to adapt the EU to this new situation, because not only we have new members that need our help to grow and develop, but the old members are running out of steam and will need growing attention (and help) from the EU. After we've settled these problems, we can begin discussing the entrance of new members. There's no point in inviting someone over to your house when you still miss the roof and are quarelling with your neighbours.

posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 11:18 AM
I watched a show thats Had Chirac talking at a French school and this very subject was addressed by a student (Yes we get that in the US and I wacthed it). Chirac said Turkey had much work to do with concern to human right values the EU holds itself too before it can become a member. I think he was talking about a timeline of something like 2008 for Turkey to become a member if they take the "necessary steps" to become a member of the EU.

posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 11:22 AM


2015 is the earliest date for turkey to appeal for membership. Set by a commission. But no problem. 3 years after the end of the world :p

posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 01:30 PM

Originally posted by tsuribito
2015 is the earliest date for turkey to appeal for membership. Set by a commission.

- Quite right; the idea that Turkey's entry into the EU is "imminent" is simply not true.

Associate membership will have to come first for a start so full membership (which has not even been agreed yet) is still a long way off, if it happens at is by no means certain.

Personally I see no problem. Turkey has made (and will continue to make) many moves to adopt the necessary EU standards - and it's simple, if they don't they can't come in at any time.

posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 01:39 PM
Perhaps is was 2008 for Associate membership not full membership. I saw the show awhile ago so it might have been 2015. It was a interesting show The students asked Chirac some tough questions.

posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 03:45 PM
I hate turks. Their not evan in Europe. Go join some asian union thing. The Ottoman Turks did alot of bad things. They invaded and converted people to islam and it screwed it up till this day. I hate Turkey. Bunch of gypsies

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