Christians stop pretending Christmas is Jesus birthday

a reply to: grandmakdw

Such is the world of today... its not just Christmas

Its just sad when your average Christian believes it has to do with Christ so dearly that they get insulting when someone states otherwise...

Just shows what most Christians actually know about their own religion... or their so called god in the flesh

originally posted by: grandmakdw

originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: grandmakdw

I'm not sure what you mean by "hedonistic orgy that Christmas has become". Christmas is not associated with orgies in the modern world, but only with giving presents and unity; and even if Christmas is not his actual birthday, it's dedicated to his (unknown) birthday. No one knows the actual day.

Orgy's do not have to be sexual. It is overindulgence.

Too much partying

Nope.

Too much meaningless gift giving (how many people are on your list, you don't like, but "have" to get a gift for)

Nope. I won't be giving gifts to anyone unless I want to.

Selfishness - people who complain about the gifts they were given, and long return lines after Christmas

Nope. I wouldn't think about it. If someone took the time to get me a gift, that's all I need to know they were at least thinking about me and for that I am duly grateful.

Ungratefulness

Pretty much just see above as these two are closely linked.

Entitlement - giving a list to people of what to buy for you and complaining if you don't get the most expensive ones

If you are an adult and still handing out Christmas lists, SORT YOUR PRIORITIES MATE! If you have a kid that is complaining that you "didn't get the most expensive ones" then you are raisning your child to be petty and materialistic, again, SORT YOUR PRIORITIES!

Decorations that are gaudy and have no meaning other than to attract attention

No gaudy decoraations at this pagan's house. We have a tree, sure, but that's just for us and because its nice to have an evergreen bough in your home to let you know that spring will come again. Plus its just cool having a big tree in the house.

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: grandmakdw

Such is the world of today... its not just Christmas

Its just sad when your average Christian believes it has to do with Christ so dearly that they get insulting when someone states otherwise...

Just shows what most Christians actually know about their own religion... or their so called god in the flesh

I am a Christian and I believe in Jesus as God in the flesh.

However, I am also enraged about Christmas and what it has evolved into.
I am also angry at the "defense" of Christmas the way it stands now.
Since it is NOT the birthday of Christ, not even close,
and it has been hijacked by crass commercialism, greed and corporations inducing guilt if people don't spend enough money,
I think that real Christians should refuse to participate as much as they are able.

I say as much as they are able, because hypocritically, I am a Grandmother, but have been striving to keep gift giving to a minimum and make it thoughtful rather than an overabundance of what ends up in the trash can.

In my opinion, it is true, strong and real Christians who should be calling for an end to Christmas
rather than atheists.

a reply to: grandmakdw

You'll have to excuse me, if you will... but I dislike when people use the term "real Christians"

None the less I agree with you....

which is why I prefer Xmas Rather then Christmas... It has absolutely nothing to do with Christ

I've been celebrating Christmas my entire life, I'm 33. Who is this Jesus guy you are talking about?

Christmas is a time of year to be with friends and family, and have happy fun times, with presents from Santa. I don't see what it has to do with religion whatsoever.

originally posted by: DumpMaster
I've been celebrating Christmas my entire life, I'm 33. Who is this Jesus guy you are talking about?

Christmas is a time of year to be with friends and family, and have happy fun times, with presents from Santa. I don't see what it has to do with religion whatsoever.

Yea! You get it!

Pretending it is a religious holiday is almost sacrilegious now.

Looking at it for what it has become is realistic.

But if all meaning is now stripped from it,

the day has become a creation of mass merchandising.

Frequently the reality of it fails,
like the office party one has to attend,
the gaudy decorations you have to store or buy annually,
or the gifts people get but don't use or like.

I finally talked my husband into scaling back the decorations big time this year.
We have been scaling back on gift giving and putting more thought into gift giving
the past few years to try and avoid meaningless obligatory giving.

As I said earlier, I'm a hypocrite when it comes to Christmas.
My inner feelings expressed here and my actions don't match,
due to a husband who loves decorating and grandchildren I adore.

I have been trying in this tread to jolt people
into looking realistically at what Christmas has become,
rather than the fantasy of what they think it should be.

Why? Because too many people go into debt and too many stores,
and ads have turned Christmas into a gaudy greed fest
combined with an overwhelming sense of guilt
if one doesn't spend more than one "should".

It is fascinating how so many on ATS scream to the rooftops about corporations

and yet cling to what Christmas has become,
a take over of a holiday with meaning
(in the pagan past to the myth of it being Christs birthday)
into a corporate binge.

Believing that one day off is worth being
bamboozled into spending several months wages
on gifts that end up returned or in the trash
and on parties where people do things they regret.

"The tendency to whining and complaining may be taken as the surest sign symptom of little souls and inferior intellects." ~ Francis Jeffrey

"Man alone is born crying, lives complaining, and dies disappointed." ~ Samuel Johnson

Its a shame that people dont know the orgins of christmas.. Christmas was outlawed for years in New York and London.. It has always been a Viking celebration for winter Soltice and the God Yule.

What we call Santa Claus today was the Shaman coming on christmas eve to give Magic Mushrooms called amanita muscaria thats why he is red and white like colour of the mushroom, The Reindeer was holy because it is the only animal who eats it. Today we put christmas presents under the Pine tree real reason is that the mushroom grows under the tree.

The way shaman used to dry the mushroom was to put it on the pine tree now we put christmas decoration. There was Animal sacriface like the Thors Goat and human Sacriface as in slaves or funeral and ALOT of ale drinking. 12 days drinking 12 days burning the Pine tree and 12 meters big logs and the 12 nights of Yule.

Why it was banned in New York was because of the Scandinavian Immigrants went little Insane"berserk" with a lot of fighting and killing as you normally did=) but even with a ban the celebration didint stop so they started the first police force to guard the streets on Christmas eve and how the Bible came in to the picture was if you cant fight them join them so they offred sweets to children as long they learnt something from the bible.

The celebration of Yule in Scandinavia predates the Christian holiday by thousands of years. For me its fascinating that this old celebration has survived.

There is alot more to it but it was a big celebration and a big joy for men.. and thats why so called santa claus is from scandinavia even if hes today a coca cola ad in the states..

a reply to: grandmakdw

Yup it's pagan in origin, I don't celebrate it.
But for those of us that live a world that does, I don't begrudge the joy others get from it , Pagan, Christian or otherwise.

And really in the western world it's a cultural thing, East Indians that have moved to North America celebrate it now, perhaps their ancestors never did in the old country either.

I just say don't deny it's true origins, as many posters have already posted.

I've never seen the word 'orgy' used so many times in one article! Lol- almost made me feel dirty...

I think we should de-Christianize Christmas and start calling it Giftsmas. No more baby Jesus... just let the holiday be about what it is really all about: an orgy of presents, feasting and partying.

originally posted by: WildCatWilly
I've never seen the word 'orgy' used so many times in one article! Lol- almost made me feel dirty...

I think we should de-Christianize Christmas and start calling it Giftsmas. No more baby Jesus... just let the holiday be about what it is really all about: an orgy of presents, feasting and partying.

That is a great idea!

Call it what it is, Giftmas. We should start the meme by repeating whenever it is appropriate.

That is the most appropriate term I have heard for the day yet.

Bah hum bug.

OH FFS

I'm a NeoPagan. A Neopagan Druid to be exact. Yes the date of JEsus's supposed birth is probably wrong (we also have no way of knowing, as the historical facts for him are virtually non existent and contradictory, I'm not going to start a JC denying rant here, just saying we have very limited evidence about his actual life).

Yule was a northern Germanic pagan festival yeah sure. Other groups had dates near it too (Saturnalia any one?).

When a religion is adopted by a culture (or group of cultures in this case) it is going to make an effort tot cause the least amount of change for the people in timing, and thus we get the modern (western) Christian calendar of high days.

Yet pagans did similar things too. The History of Rome is rife with various religions (or cults if you wish) rising, then falling to the successor. THe Cult of a little Jewish Carpenter just stuck this time.

SO as a pagan. I don't really care, mind, give a rats posterior that Christmas was also once the time of a pagan festivals for various groups. Things change. For one, Pagans are back again

a reply to: Noinden

That is why the term Giftmas is as one poster suggested, the absolute best name for the holiday, I'm ok with going back to Saturnalia.

As a Christian, I am just offended that the holiday is wrongly called the birth day of Christ, as it clearly is not.

So I love the term Giftmas and will use it,

perhaps Corporate Greed Giftmas, but that's a little long isn't it?

a reply to: grandmakdw

Well Coke already branded Santa to their colours in the mind of the world so ....

a reply to: grandmakdw

Well Coke already branded Santa to their colours in the mind of the world so ....

Even the Scriptures say - One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. NIV Rom. 14:5

I'm not going to worry about what days anyone else on this planet holds sacred. The only ones that matter are the ones YOU hold sacred or important in your own mind, attuned to whatever you consider your reason for getting up every day. Big deal. So what if Christians or Chipmunks want to celebrate some day to Jesus. Why do you care? Be concerned with your own special days. It's far less stressful and probably far more productive.

Actually the reason Jesus is said to be born on dec 25 is due to the fact that his entire life through the the bible covers all zodiac signs. The man with pitcher of water is Aquarius, judas is Scorpio, etc. davinchi's last super also clearly shows this fact. Jesus is the sun which enters the constellation the crux(cross) on dec 21 and rises three days later. I agree with the materialistic ridiculousness of Christmas but this is the truth.

originally posted by: Opportunity
Even the Scriptures say - One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. NIV Rom. 14:5

I'm not going to worry about what days anyone else on this planet holds sacred. The only ones that matter are the ones YOU hold sacred or important in your own mind, attuned to whatever you consider your reason for getting up every day. Big deal. So what if Christians or Chipmunks want to celebrate some day to Jesus. Why do you care? Be concerned with your own special days. It's far less stressful and probably far more productive.

I care because people are being hoodwinked into going into debt over this holiday. It is actually harming people who feel pressured by Giftmas to give more than they can afford. It may help the overall economy, but in the name of "Christ" is causing people to go into debt.

originally posted by: Bonesmuggle
Actually the reason Jesus is said to be born on dec 25 is due to the fact that his entire life through the the bible covers all zodiac signs. The man with pitcher of water is Aquarius, judas is Scorpio, etc. davinchi's last super also clearly shows this fact. Jesus is the sun which enters the constellation the crux(cross) on dec 21 and rises three days later. I agree with the materialistic ridiculousness of Christmas but this is the truth.

The truth is Christ was born in the spring sometime. Most religious scholars agree due to a number of things.

The zodiac thing is interesting and may be a part of why a winter date was chosen for celebration, but most of history shows that it was chosen because of Saturnalia and people not wanting to give up Saturnalia, so the religious leaders decided to just repurpose Saturnalia.