Christians stop pretending Christmas is Jesus birthday

Atheist here.

Count me out, I love Christmas.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Some atheists, the fundamentalist type, bore the s# out of me with the preachy sense of self importance. You included!

And you don't see the irony in that statement.

Perhaps it is the thought that counts?

I have made a tradition of hitting a Mexican border town over Christmas. Progresso is my favorite. There are very few tourists and the music is much better. I'll take a mariachi band over 'Silent Night' and 'Grandma Got Run Over By a Reindeer' anyday.
There are restaurants and cantinas that have begun to remember and recognize me.
There are plenty of people who are much more appreciative of holiday generosity from a stranger in those parts than what I see at family gatherings here.

Deny Christmas? Talk about fundamentalism.
Its a holiday and a festivity, not much different to celebrating the New Year,
So its not Christs birth date, I am over it, I am over atheists telling me its not Christs birth date, I am over Christians demanding I separate myself from celebrating Christmas with my friends and family.

I know, I know Jesus, I know that Chrissy is a time to share Gods love, even if the dates out.

I intend to enjoy Christmas, sorry for you.
Its not an issue to me.

a reply to: grandmakdw

I'm not sure what you mean by "hedonistic orgy that Christmas has become". Christmas is not associated with orgies in the modern world, but only with giving presents and unity; and even if Christmas is not his actual birthday, it's dedicated to his (unknown) birthday. No one knows the actual day.

a reply to: Klassified

It was intended but we all know fundamentalist religious people are boring, didn't see the point in mentioning it!

a reply to: Sublimecraft

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
It was my understanding is that Christmas is the day of Mass to celebrate the birth of Christ...
Not Christ's birthday.

I was raised Catholic, & I don't know anyone who actually believes Jesus was born on the 25th of December...

& how is it an anti-thesis of Christianity to purchase Gifts for people and celebrate family ties?



Some atheists, the fundamentalist type, bore the s# out of me with the preachy sense of self importance.
You included!

For all of you who think I am atheist, I am not.

I am a strong Christian, very strong Christian.

I am angry about what Christmas has become and feel it has become a commercialized ugly parody of what should be a holy day. Since it is NOT even close to the birthday of Christ. Why should Christians in particular participate in what has become a holiday that mainly benefits profit making and has turned into the worship of "things".

The holiday of Christmas is now a way
for corporations (may of you decry) to suck the financial life out of
the very people who work for them
and see the day off as a benefit
greater than the soul sucking orgy of commercialism

originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: grandmakdw

I'm not sure what you mean by "hedonistic orgy that Christmas has become". Christmas is not associated with orgies in the modern world, but only with giving presents and unity; and even if Christmas is not his actual birthday, it's dedicated to his (unknown) birthday. No one knows the actual day.

Orgy's do not have to be sexual. It is overindulgence.

Too much partying
Too much meaningless gift giving (how many people are on your list, you don't like, but "have" to get a gift for)
Selfishness - people who complain about the gifts they were given, and long return lines after Christmas
Ungratefulness
Entitlement - giving a list to people of what to buy for you and complaining if you don't get the most expensive ones
Decorations that are gaudy and have no meaning other than to attract attention

a reply to: grandmakdw

Ok, so I'm going to disagree with you a bit here. We can agree that Christmas has been secularized beyond belief, and that does disgust me. I found it highly ironic that I saw a liberal facebook group post a message they obviously thought funny that said something to effect of The War on Christmas only being Thanksgiving trying to take back its turf, or something like it. I found it highly funny and ironic for a couple reasons:

1.) It's the secularization of Christmas that has made it such a behemoth of greed in the first place. I thought most liberals championed the general removal of religion from things they would prefer to enjoy.

2.) When they aren't fighting so hard against Christmas because of the last vestiges of Christ in it, they also hate Thanksgiving with an equal fervor for being such a disgusting colonial holiday association with the genocide of the gentle noble savages called the Native Americans and their perfect Gaia loving way of life.

However, how you celebrate is up to you, and you can either make your Christmas a fantastic orgy based on greed or center it on family and fellowship and faith. I think God knows our hearts and intent.

originally posted by: grandmakdw
a reply to: Sublimecraft

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
It was my understanding is that Christmas is the day of Mass to celebrate the birth of Christ...
Not Christ's birthday.

I was raised Catholic, & I don't know anyone who actually believes Jesus was born on the 25th of December...

& how is it an anti-thesis of Christianity to purchase Gifts for people and celebrate family ties?



Some atheists, the fundamentalist type, bore the s# out of me with the preachy sense of self importance.
You included!

For all of you who think I am atheist, I am not.

I am a strong Christian, very strong Christian.

I am angry about what Christmas has become and feel it has become a commercialized ugly parody of what should be a holy day. Since it is NOT even close to the birthday of Christ. Why should Christians in particular participate in what has become a holiday that mainly benefits profit making and has turned into the worship of "things".

The holiday of Christmas is now a way
for corporations (may of you decry) to suck the financial life out of
the very people who work for them
and see the day off as a benefit
greater than the soul sucking orgy of commercialism

Eh. Companies lean on the holiday season for sales to stay afloat. I don't think this is a very recent thing. And I'd hate to see where we'd be without people shopping during the holidays. I don't like it, but I'd rather not see how we are without it.

originally posted by: grandmakdw
I think it is time we joined our atheist brothers and call off Christmas on Dec. 25th.

May I be the first to wish you a wonderful and Merry Christmas this year.
Instead of fighting it, why not do something to bring back the real meaning of it?
And who cares what day it's on?
Most of the planet knows the exact day won't ever be known.

What all this talk of pagan orgies. There are many beliefs that come under the umbrella of paganism, I can be classed as pagan myself, its a time for myself and those I love to come together and bring light into the darkness and celebrate the slow return to brighter days. This doesn't mean getting blind drunk and engaging in mass sex and gluttony; more over giving thanks to the god, goddess and each other too. A nice bit of winter fayre is nice of course.

Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and should be considerate of others.

a reply to: grandmakdw

Hello, I am a Christian, have a bachelors degree in Bible & Theology and am currently working on a masters degree in Seminary. Yes...we know Jesus wasn't born on December 25th, and that it was mostly likely in the spring time. Why then do we celebrate it on that date? Well, tradition. Sure the early Catholics chose a time of great celebration for the pagan world and decided the only way to make that celebration have a focus on the Christ was to make it about His birth, but it has been celebrated on this date for hundreds of years.
I agree that modern Christmas is an abomination, but we can't blame Christmas...and we can't really blame Christians either. Do you think Christians and the church are telling corporate CEOs to push the holiday season earlier and earlier? Do you really think the pope is telling Walmart to open early on Thanksgiving day for Black Friday Christmas sales? Then how is it the fault of Christmas or Christians?
It is only human nature to want more...isn't that after all the nature of the fall? The first sin? When Adam and Eve wanted more, wanted to know more, wanted to feel more powerful by eating that apple? It is just in our human nature to be greedy, and rude, and to want more stuff....but it should be the reality of the Christian family to make the holiday about family, friends, hope, and above all else, about love. Now a lot of us Christians fail to do that because, after all, we're only human...and that's why there if grace in the Lord, and He forgives those who believe.

originally posted by: AnonymousMoose
Yes...we know Jesus wasn't born on December 25th, and that it was mostly likely in the spring time. Why then do we celebrate it on that date? Well, tradition. Sure the early Catholics chose a time of great celebration for the pagan world and decided the only way to make that celebration have a focus on the Christ was to make it about His birth, but it has been celebrated on this date for hundreds of years.

Yup. Integration:

Saturnalia was an ancient Roman festival in honor of the deity Saturn, held on the 17th of December of the Julian calendar and later expanded with festivities through to the 23rd of December. The holiday was celebrated with a sacrifice at the Temple of Saturn, in the Roman Forum, and a public banquet, followed by private gift-giving, continual partying, and a carnival atmosphere that overturned Roman social norms: gambling was permitted, and masters provided table service for their slaves.[1] The poet Catullus called it "the best of days."[2]

In Roman mythology, Saturn was an agricultural deity who was said to have reigned over the world in the Golden Age, when humans enjoyed the spontaneous bounty of the earth without labor in a state of social egalitarianism. The revelries of Saturnalia were supposed to reflect the conditions of the lost mythical age, not all of them desirable. The Greek equivalent was the Kronia.

en.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: Lyxdeslic

originally posted by: grandmakdw
a reply to: Sublimecraft

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
It was my understanding is that Christmas is the day of Mass to celebrate the birth of Christ...
Not Christ's birthday.

I was raised Catholic, & I don't know anyone who actually believes Jesus was born on the 25th of December...

& how is it an anti-thesis of Christianity to purchase Gifts for people and celebrate family ties?



Some atheists, the fundamentalist type, bore the s# out of me with the preachy sense of self importance.
You included!

For all of you who think I am atheist, I am not.

I am a strong Christian, very strong Christian.

I am angry about what Christmas has become and feel it has become a commercialized ugly parody of what should be a holy day. Since it is NOT even close to the birthday of Christ. Why should Christians in particular participate in what has become a holiday that mainly benefits profit making and has turned into the worship of "things".

The holiday of Christmas is now a way
for corporations (may of you decry) to suck the financial life out of
the very people who work for them
and see the day off as a benefit
greater than the soul sucking orgy of commercialism

Eh. Companies lean on the holiday season for sales to stay afloat. I don't think this is a very recent thing. And I'd hate to see where we'd be without people shopping during the holidays. I don't like it, but I'd rather not see how we are without it.

This is also very true, my current manager worked for Toys R Us for a short time and said something like 80% of their annual sales came from the Christmas season alone. Which brings me to this youtube video from Advent Conspiracy. It has a good message on consumerism. Those of you who don't believe feel free to ignore the religious mumbo-jumbo, but the message is good...I'll sum it up...Americans spend on average $450 BILLION each year on Christmas, including useless and meaningless gifts people often don't want or don't need. Why not give more of ourselves and of our time? Spend less money, and maybe give more money to charity. Did you know it is estimated that to give the ENTIRE PLANET access to fresh water would only cost $20 Billion? That is not a lot compared to what we spend on Christmas.

a reply to: AnonymousMoose

Did you know the west throws away enough food to feed the world a few times over?

We could easily solve the worlds problems... the issue is the governments of the world just don't care...

a reply to: Akragon

The planet could support many more people on the planet. The planet just can't support that and corporate greed at the same time.

a reply to: intrepid

So we all agree that Christmas has become corporate greed

forced on the masses, through commercialism and ads that promote guilt for not

buying the right product or enough product.


See, true Christians should wake up and smell the coffee, Christmas has been hijacked and if Christians want to participate they should realize that Christ's birth is a far far second to the crass commercialism and greed of the holiday.