Christians stop pretending Christmas is Jesus birthday

its love/hate feelings for me when it comes to christmas....
its only nov 8th and i am already tired of the decorations and such....not really into hearing from family/people that i dont talk to all year and dont care about at all.
could care less if it was christs birthday or arbitrary day or whatever religious symbol it is supposed to represent.
all means nothing to me in that respect.


that said, bring on the paid week off or double time if i work....i love waking up in the morning and seeing my wife and daughter get all ooey gooey about their gifts.....

either way, im always glad when it is over...

a reply to: grandmakdw

Something else that is of value in this thread. The song, "All he wants for Christmas are his two front teeth" has a hidden message.

Sister Suzy (NUN) sits on a Thistle (SIN). All he wants for Christmas is his Shin. Shin is an eternal flame in a lump of coal that is not consumed. SHIN

There is more to this than you can possibly imagine. The thorn of crowns is on the head of the King and the seed is on the thistle. The DNA will not be repaired until the thorn is removed. Two front teeth is a goal.

I kind of hate Christmas time now, just because of all the selfishness and hate that goes into it.
Keep calm, the "It's Merry Christmas... Not Happy Holidays," and "I didn't want this toy! I wanted that one!"s are coming.

Look, I'm not religious in any way (except when I hit my thumb with a hammer) and Christmas kind of sat odd for me. But - I still loved it. Why? Well, I'm hopeless with my words, but god damn if this song doesn't hit you square in ya date and make you cry I don't know what will.




That's what atheists get out of Christmas, those who choose to still hold it as a wonderful excuse to just spend time together and laugh and smile and have a cry.

a reply to: Grovit

I hear you about the glad when it's over part! It's a very long day, and the decorations I find quite tacky... But give the song above I linked a go, because you seem to like what I like about the day. Watching loved ones faces smile. And there's a kind of magic knowing that so many others families are also putting everything else on hold and just spending some time together around those who love you (but also, drive you crazy). Not sure where you live, but for us Aussies it's drinking wine in the sun, so just substitute your own fermented beverage of choice and weather system.

a reply to: grandmakdw

I agree with you about the crass commercialization of Chrisian Holidays - I don't see it much with other religious holidays.

As to the birth of Christ. I believe that most scholars believe that if there was an historical Jesus of Nazareth, he was most likely born in the Spring. More at the time of the Easter holiday.

Note that thosepoints on the calendar coincide with the Winter Solstice and the Spring Equinox. Both of which are celebrated by Pagans and religions alike. Chrisianity overlaid their celebratory calendar on an acient Pagan one, as you would say.

Regardless the timing is metaphorical. The spring equinox representing the 'birth of a new year/cycle' and the winter soltiise representing the darkest day of the year/deep inrospection/even a period of dispair before the new year begins. The metaphor of a cycle of festivals tells the story of Birth, Growth, Maturity and Death - leading to rebirth.

How we celebrate these points in the spiritual year says a lot about the 'gods' that we actually have faith in.

originally posted by: AlephBet
a reply to: grandmakdw



Something else that is of value in this thread. The song, "All he wants for Christmas are his two front teeth" has a hidden message.



Sister Suzy (NUN) sits on a Thistle (SIN). All he wants for Christmas is his Shin. Shin is an eternal flame in a lump of coal that is not consumed. SHIN



There is more to this than you can possibly imagine. The thorn of crowns is on the head of the King and the seed is on the thistle. The DNA will not be repaired until the thorn is removed. Two front teeth is a goal.

hey let's do that now. how does one remove the thorn on top? is it violence death of someone love or holding steadfast?

a reply to: Lyxdeslic

If I could program websites, you just gave me a great idea.

The "Santa gone and done stuffed it right up" exchange! Kids will post up the items they don't want and what they were hoping for instead, then the website matches you up with an exchange kid. Genius!

(Except if my kids did that after my spending 2 weeks hunting down each thing trying to find it the cheapest even by a few dollars and fighting the other parents for parking spots and shortest checkout lines, I think I would put my own kids on eBay )

originally posted by: Lyxdeslic
I kind of hate Christmas time now, just because of all the selfishness and hate that goes into it.

Your in very good company...

I believe that the Lord Jesus Christ himself agrees.

Christmas SHOULD be about Jesus, but it really isn't.

Instead we buy things for ourselves...

Christmas is HIS birthday, not ours.

On Christmas morning in 1997 I was awake and praying knowing that I would soon be heading downstairs to share Christmas with my daughter and her family.

As I continued praying about it the L-rd gave me a vision. Standing before me in an open vision I saw a Christmas Tree beautifully decorated with presents tucked all around the bottom. Across from the tree I saw Messiah hanging upon a cross weeping. He looked at me and cried: "The foxes have spoiled the whole tree." I responded: "L-rd, what do you mean?"

He then took me into the spirit and let me see things through His eyes and feel what He felt. He moaned: "Christmas is not about Me and what I gave on the cross. It is about greed and gifts and teaching My children the ways of the world. It is about what each one can get and moaning over what they don't get. It fosters greed and rebellion in the hearts of My precious children, while the poor and the needy go without. This is not My way; it is not My holiday. It is mans!

The merchants have totally perverted the joy of My birth and have turned the focus on satisfying the craving of man's lust. My children are not taught to forget themselves and seek the interest of the poor and needy. It is a holiday that is a complete perversion of my ways."

I realized that Christmas, although many Churches put on pageants and plays about Christ and His birth, truly is a pagan holiday. No matter how we try to dress it up, it really isn't about our beloved Messiah. It is about us!

Where Is Christ In Christmas?

Jesus was so much of an influence in his lifetime no one bothered with his date of birth ? Seems odd , no?

So boycott every store and every corporation trying to get you to spend money you don't have on things you don't need, just because it's a certain 'season'.

I wonder how many Christians know that the derivation of Christmas is 'Christ's Mass?'

Back in the peasant/king days, there was a new Saint's Mass almost every month to give the hardworking peasants a day off to feast and make merry.

It made up for dying during the Black Plague.

originally posted by: WilsonWilson
It's non Christians that have made it a materialistic orgy. I fail to see how it's Christians fault they've done it, that just makes no logical sense.

Christians are participating in the orgy as if they were non-Christians with the excuse that it is the birthday of Christ. It is no such thing, it is a made up holiday date nowhere near the truth. The date was picked by the early Popes because they wanted to try and erase Saturnalia, a pagan holiday.

Christians are at fault if they fail to see how they are being manipulated into a lie, that Christmas is the birthday of Christ, when it is clearly not. When Christians begin to refuse (or severely scale back, as I have done) to participate in the excess gluttony of the body, mind and spirit, and start looking for the REAL Christmas (in the spring, near Easter), then maybe what Christmas has become will become obvious to the world. A day of crass commercialism, greed, and gluttony.

christmas brings out thee plastic people too. its very annoying.

i have family members that dont talk to all year. not even 1 time and i like it that way...come christmas time though, the cards come in the mail and they all of a sudden want to pop in with their gifties.....
all of a sudden they care about me......then the next day its back to the usual ways.....

originally posted by: Murgatroid

originally posted by: Lyxdeslic
I kind of hate Christmas time now, just because of all the selfishness and hate that goes into it.

Your in very good company...

I believe that the Lord Jesus Christ himself agrees.

Christmas SHOULD be about Jesus, but it really isn't.

Instead we buy things for ourselves...

Christmas is HIS birthday, not ours.

On Christmas morning in 1997 I was awake and praying knowing that I would soon be heading downstairs to share Christmas with my daughter and her family.

As I continued praying about it the L-rd gave me a vision. Standing before me in an open vision I saw a Christmas Tree beautifully decorated with presents tucked all around the bottom. Across from the tree I saw Messiah hanging upon a cross weeping. He looked at me and cried: "The foxes have spoiled the whole tree." I responded: "L-rd, what do you mean?"

He then took me into the spirit and let me see things through His eyes and feel what He felt. He moaned: "Christmas is not about Me and what I gave on the cross. It is about greed and gifts and teaching My children the ways of the world. It is about what each one can get and moaning over what they don't get. It fosters greed and rebellion in the hearts of My precious children, while the poor and the needy go without. This is not My way; it is not My holiday. It is mans!

The merchants have totally perverted the joy of My birth and have turned the focus on satisfying the craving of man's lust. My children are not taught to forget themselves and seek the interest of the poor and needy. It is a holiday that is a complete perversion of my ways."

I realized that Christmas, although many Churches put on pageants and plays about Christ and His birth, truly is a pagan holiday. No matter how we try to dress it up, it really isn't about our beloved Messiah. It is about us!

Where Is Christ In Christmas?

I agree. People do make it about themselves. But it's really about family. Spending time with loved ones, that maybe you don't see all the time. I asked my younger brother (15) what he wanted for Christmas (I live in Ohio, he and my other younger siblings live with my mother in Oklahoma) and his answer was simple, a tool set and for me to call on Christmas. Where did that sort of love go in families? Now it's "I want an Xbox1 and for you to leave me alone!"
I won't agree with you that it's about Christ, though. It was never supposed to be about him. It was just the marking of winter (as winter solstice is December 21st). It's fine if you want to celebrate Christmas as as Jesus's birthday, but not everyone does. Nor do they want to. And that's why I've grown to dislike Christmas. Because of all the arguing about what Christmas is really about. For the majority of people, it is about family. And will always be about family. Religion is the last thing on most peoples minds.

originally posted by: UpLateWakingUp
Jesus was so much of an influence in his lifetime no one bothered with his date of birth ? Seems odd , no?

That has to do with the times and the fact he was not secular royal who might have their date of birth carved into some stone.

Do we know Plato's birthday or Aristotle ? They were influential in that their teachings have stood the test of time.

How about Herod the Great? He was hugely influential throughout time in architecture and in the world at the time, and we don't his date of birth.

It has to do with the era.

originally posted by: grandmakdw

Do we know Plato's birthday or Aristotle ? .

influential but not worshiped.
you would think one of the wise men or someone would have recorded the birth of the son of god.

a reply to: grandmakdw

Christmas is a Pagan Holiday... And why should we have a certain day to share, be charitable and happy? We should be like this every day of the god damn year for Christs sake.

Good luck with this Grandma. In my days as a xtian, I tried to turn the church from celebrating xmas as a holiday(holyday). It is mostly a mix of Mithraism and Saturnalia, but we also can't ignore the many other messiahs/saviors also worshipped on the 25th, whose key attributes are similar to Christs, and are hundreds of years older. What we call the xmas season was VERY important for the church to usurp, and stamp out the pagan holidays. That hasn't changed today. xtianity owns December 25, and the "holyday" season. They aren't likely to give it back to the pagans any time soon.

Speaking of Saturnalia and Xtianity. The Star Trek episode: Return Of The Archons, gives us a new take on very old practices.

a reply to: grandmakdw

If you don't want it, that's great, don't celebrate it. Don't expect me to jump on your bandwagon.

You want us to have less holidays and work more so fat cat corporate pricks can suck the life out of family time even more? I couldn't give a fat rats ass what people think was or was not the birthday of someone who may or may not have existed.

You calling for its abolition simply highlights the personal malice you have towards Christianity in general.

You do know that Constantine worked his magic to incorporate the Dec 25th date to appease the pagans of the time in accepting the new state sanctioned religion? You do know that the birth of Christ has been debated, almost continuously, by theologians (Catholic and otherwise) for at least the last 1500 years yeah?

FACT: Christmas has been happening long before you were born and will continue to do so until we are hit by a comet / other.

The Corporations may be successful in sucking the $$ from my bank account during the Christmas period, I'll be damned that they are also going to have my labour as well.

I will fight with all of my might to ensure the holiday remains in place, call it another name to appease the mental state of certain non-christians, I don't care, just keep your bloody hands off it.

It was my understanding is that Christmas is the day of Mass to celebrate the birth of Christ...
Not Christ's birthday.

I was raised Catholic, & I don't know anyone who actually believes Jesus was born on the 25th of December...

& how is it an anti-thesis of Christianity to purchase Gifts for people and celebrate family ties?



Some atheists, the fundamentalist type, bore the s# out of me with the preachy sense of self importance.
You included!