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The Wisdom of King Lemuel, a Question for Abrahamics

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posted on Nov, 8 2014 @ 12:30 PM
Who was King Lemuel and why was his wisdom so important as to be included in Proverbs?

31 The sayings of King Lemuel—an inspired utterance his mother taught him.

2 Listen, my son! Listen, son of my womb!
Listen, my son, the answer to my prayers!
3 Do not spend your strength[a] on women,
your vigor on those who ruin kings.
4 It is not for kings, Lemuel—
it is not for kings to drink wine,
not for rulers to crave beer,
5 lest they drink and forget what has been decreed,
and deprive all the oppressed of their rights.
6 Let beer be for those who are perishing,
wine for those who are in anguish!
7 Let them drink and forget their poverty
and remember their misery no more.
8 Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves,
for the rights of all who are destitute.

9 Speak up and judge fairly;
defend the rights of the poor and needy.

Should the impoverished and the perishing truly obey this behavior? Should they drink to forget their state of affairs and just enjoy the little time they have left to this world? What is your take on these verses?

posted on Nov, 8 2014 @ 12:41 PM
a reply to: Nechash

I see it more as warning against her son becoming a wastrel. She warns him against wine and women as they lure someone away from considering the things that are important. She uses the poor as an example. Look at the poor people who drown their sorrows in drink to forget their misery. You need to keep a clear head to speak up for them because if you don't, they sure won't.

And indeed, look at how many of today's poor would rather drown themselves in the pleasures of the moment than fight to get out of their misery having already given up essentially.

posted on Nov, 8 2014 @ 01:33 PM
a reply to: ketsuko

That is sensible. I googled it and I found many people who were taking it literally as a proclamation of what a poor person should do and I thought that was a senseless interpretation personally. It puzzles me because I can't find any information on the individual. Why include this? I guess maybe I read the bible from a literary stand point which is probably not the best methodology. ;p

Allegorically, I see a king (a person who maintains self control) contrasted against the poor (spiritual poverty?) and so I can internalize this lesson on maybe how I ought to treat others in this life, but giving the poor over to intoxication, distraction, and futility seems counter-productive to me.
edit on 11 8 2014 by Nechash because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 8 2014 @ 03:03 PM
a reply to: Nechash

Well when you live in poverty, and I have, it is so easy to grasp at whatever pleasures you can afford over being wise with what you have even when it means making yourself even poorer for the moment - that's basically what it means to save when you are already poor. You could go out and buy the alcohol or the drugs or the trinkets that make you temporarily happy now, but when you want those long-term things that will really bring you lasting prosperity and help lift you out of poverty, that money you spent on those short-term pleasures can't be brought back. It's gone.

But man when your life is miserable, it's hard to deny yourself that small pleasure even when you know what it means for your long-term future. A lot of people don't have the will power to deny themselves.

posted on Nov, 8 2014 @ 05:45 PM
It is metaphor in my opinion. He means to say that we must not take advantage of Mother nature or to become "drunk" off of her resources. When kings and rulers become hungry for power (territory) and resources (money) you get the oppressed (the masses) with their rights taken away. We've seen this clearly on this world, kings and rulers have gotten drunk off of Mother nature's gifts.

Who is the Whore of Babylon? Mother Earth, she gives herself away freely, but you have to pay her pimp (elites/banking systems). This is why Lemuel instructs him not to go after women who ruin kings annd rulers, live in balance not over indulgence.

posted on Nov, 8 2014 @ 07:26 PM
Lemuel is king Solomon. He is also called Koheleth, Shlomo, Yedidya, Ben, Yakeh, and Itiel among others. This is not uncommon as Moses was known by no less than 10 names. Jethro had about a dozen monikers himself, Reuel, Hovav and so on.
These proverbs traditionally are the instructions Solomon's mother gave him after his wedding and coronation. After his wedding night he slept after the third hour of the day to which his mother scolded him harshly. She told him the responsibility of the crown is far too great for him to indulge in wine and physical pleasures too much

. he expounded on this wisdom by saying that the stupification caused by alcohol is best used by those who need to forget, such as mourners and the poor and destitute.
a ruler or rich man or a great scholar has no permission to lose control of his senses as not to pervert justice or society at large.
these proverbs are an exhortation to maintain a higher ideal

posted on Nov, 9 2014 @ 08:52 AM
a reply to: Nechash

Elijah is the King of Baptism and Waters. In the NT, he is John the Baptist. There is a connection here.

It is helpful at times to follow words across the nations from Babel. Lamue is the Spirit of something in Latin. Muel (mohel) is the practice of brit milah, or circumcision. From this, the one circumcised is cut off from their previous sin. It is a sign of the cutting of the front of the male reproductive organ, symbolic of the cutting of seed. In this passage, the process for this is given. Involution is the process to cut our past from our view. The process involves baptism (immersion into the water reality below heaven) so that the soul can rise to NEW life. The new life means the old life is past and forgotten.

If you look up the esoteric version of involution on Wikipedia, it lists inconscience as the state of not remembering the past. Read the words again and see what they say in the passage you list.

7 Let them drink and forget their poverty
and remember their misery no more.
8 Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves,
for the rights of all who are destitute.
9 Speak up and judge fairly;
defend the rights of the poor and needy.

Compare this to the Nepenthe of the Greeks. It was the drug of forgetfulness of sorrow.

Plato: "The story goes that Thamus said many things to Theuth in praise or blame of the various arts, which it would take too long to repeat; but when they came to the letters, “This invention, O king,” said Theuth, “will make the Egyptians wiser and will improve their memories; for it is an elixir of memory and wisdom that I have discovered.” But Thamus replied, “Most ingenious Theuth, one man has the ability to beget arts, but the ability to judge of their usefulness or harmfulness to their users belongs to another; [275a] and now you, who are the father of letters, have been led by your affection to ascribe to them a power the opposite of that which they really possess. For this invention will produce forgetfulness in the minds of those who learn to use it, because they will not practice their memory. Their trust in writing, produced by external characters which are no part of themselves, will discourage the use of their own memory within them. You have invented an elixir not of memory, but of reminding; and you offer your pupils the appearance of wisdom, not true wisdom, for they will read many things without instruction and will therefore seem [275b] to know many things, when they are for the most part ignorant and hard to get along with, since they are not wise, but only appear wise."

From the Rabbi: The Rebbe answered, "Do tshuvah (repent)! It says in the Talmud: 'There is no forgetfulness before the Throne of Glory.' [This is an oblique way of saying that God does not forget. But it also means that anyone near God, 'before His Throne,' will not forget.] And," added the Rebbe, "it also says elsewhere in the Talmud: 'Tshuvah reaches to the Throne of Glory.'"

From Greek.

Amn is Lamb
AMNi is River of Life
AMNio is a bowl catching the sacrifice
AMNion is the sac covering the womb
AMNiotic is the fluid of the womb (Elixir)
AMNesia is the condition of the womb (inconscience)
AMNesty is the reason. God forgets our sin.
dAMNation is when God remembers.

Baptism into the river of life is drinking the elixir of life. We are here to forget our past and remember it no more. The trials of this life are a sacrifice toward that goal. You MUST be born again.

This is something Solomon did not know. Nor did Yahweh. Baptism is the flood. Jesus was baptized into life to undo his past as Yahweh.

posted on Nov, 9 2014 @ 09:39 AM
a reply to: AlephBet

It is worth mentioning that those who cause us to forget will fail in the mission. We WILL remember at the great white throne of judgment. When we do, we will likely not forgive if wisdom is proven wrong. It depends entirely on the truth of the one speaking the word. If he lies, we will crucify. If truth is found by intent and actions, then mutual forgiveness. It all hinges on the return of the one that was here twice. His actions will prove wisdom right or reveal the lie. Either way, truth will rise. God is the Father and the Holy Spirit the Mother. Both are incorruptible. Powers and Principalities need to heed the word and heel to God's authority. We all must. His will is to give and for us to receive. What is the one thing you should be able to leave this place with? Memories. Thieves come to steal, kill and destroy.

If wisdom is proven right, then the crowns will be thrown in the glass sea by/for all souls. No boasting in heaven for a reason. What does it profit if you gain the whole world and lose your soul? It is a question for those trying to take the world that was given. All of us by the way. Not simply those who fancy themselves gods. The rainbow is the promise for all souls, not simply one. The only idol is self. Yahweh learned this lesson by baptism, or inconscience as a Kinsman Redeemer. His third arrival must be marked holy. If not, Malachi 4, or the last words of Yahweh, means Elijah failed. War will mark the thief. WW3 defends one nation. The rainbow will be the promise of Jonah and Nineveh. Yahweh went back on his word and ended Nineveh. Be warned.

Malachi 4

4 “Remember the teachings of my servant Moses, the rules and regulations that I gave to him at Horeb for all Israel.

5 “I’m going to send you the prophet Elijah before that very terrifying day of Yahweh comes. 6 He will change parents’ attitudes toward their children and children’s attitudes toward their parents. If not, I will come and reclaim my land by destroying you.”

What happens if we all return to the throne at once? We remember. Only a thief can steal, kill and destroy.

Only 6 years left to the end of the generation beyond 1948. The jubilee is 2017.

Horeb means burned to ashes. We all fall down. Elohim cannot be deceived or tricked into forgetting. The Father is with the meek. This is where he is found. The first will be last and the last first. Ranking in heaven is determined by humility and our service to feed the sheep. Elohim is the Shepherd. Yahweh was the lamb.

The glass sea reveals that we are ALL sinners, even the accuser and adversary of man, The Lord of Hosts. The hosts must see this and so must the one latched on to them in Spirit. Mutual forgiveness. Judge Him and judge yourself. Inheritance is for the rainbow.

edit on 9-11-2014 by AlephBet because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 9 2014 @ 01:11 PM
a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

That allegory popped into my mind as well when I read the part about the women. I still don't know how I feel towards this world. I think there is a false woman, Semiramis, who pretends to be this world and tempts us in the flesh and then there is a true woman, Shekinah, who calls us to employ our talents creatively in order to magnify the wealth that has been bestowed upon us. I think the glorification of the later will lead to a restoration of a golden age for all of us to enjoy, thus meaning that this world can be good, but I presently think the world is in a fallen state of decay and darkness if that makes any sense.

posted on Nov, 9 2014 @ 01:15 PM
a reply to: dashen

I can appreciate that interpretation. Jewish legend suggests that, and I'd think who would know better the exegesis of the Tanakh but the people who have studied it for all these centuries. With the old testament, I like to begin with Jewish interpretation, trying to find the oldest concepts and move forward into Christianity and then secular scholarship. I think all three avenues give a balanced view, and each angle does certainly reveal different truths to be considered.

posted on Nov, 9 2014 @ 01:16 PM
a reply to: AlephBet

I can appreciate your worldview. I'm not a literalist by any stretch of the imagination. For me every holy book is an allegory to consider, a spiritually inspired piece of literature designed to induce within us changes leading towards our metamorphosis, but that's just me.

posted on Nov, 10 2014 @ 12:23 PM
a reply to: Nechash

Shekina would represent organized religion in my opinion, the Church is considered the "bride" yet it is run by men. They erased the true bride or "Semiramis" from their books and overtook her identity.

Mother (body/material) ---- Son (life/image) ---- Father (time/immaterial)

What happens when the material world (body) is fused with the immaterial (Spirit)? You have life, or an animated body with the ability to think and reason which moves through time.

The Whore is Earth, Babylon is the society we live in today, the Daughters of Zion are organized religions that take the true bride's place.

I think it's obvious what he means by "women" personally.
edit on 11/10/2014 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 10 2014 @ 03:30 PM
a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Hmm. Interesting. Early on in my "awakening," there was much imagery coming from the mother of Babylon theme. I dismissed that as an illusion which leads to bondage. I considered Shekinah to be truer because she was based in the light which has been rectifying me. Do you think the organized religions of this world really are in control of either of the mothers of this world? Personally, I think they pretend to the authority of their father while they trample on their mother.

With any of these allegories, often what is presented to you is an inversion of truth designed specifically to prevent you from finding the path when it is finally revealed to you. This is why, ultimately, I've tried to walk more neutral roads. I can't be certain of the image or its reflection, and I'm sure a trap is hiding behind at least one of them, if not both, but the neutral road maybe won't have a trap at all.

I don't know. I'm still kind of lost personally. It seems once an idea comes into my head the world rapidly brings forward a camp of people who parrot those ideas and that tells me certainly that such an idea must be false. Is that methodology too cynical?

posted on Nov, 10 2014 @ 04:00 PM
a reply to: Nechash

In my opinion there is only one Mother and she is the material universe around us including Earth. Organized religions want to profit off of her resources so they all but completely removed her from their teachings giving them free reign to destroy and pillage Earth and keep the masses in the dark about their true place in heaven.

If we don't know Earth is a piece of heaven then we begin to look the other way when she is abused and destroyed. People expect heaven to come only after they die not realizing they were here all along, so we get what we have today, corruption and destruction which came about from people's ignorance.

If there are a large number of people who believe a certain thing then it's most likely false, that's the world we live in unfortunately. I don't see any problem with questioning something that has a huge following.

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