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Did Obamacare Sink the Democrats?

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posted on Nov, 7 2014 @ 07:23 PM
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a reply to: tavi45

Both sides knew that health care needed some work. But Obama campaigned on it:


(2008)Obama's call was an echo of a speech he made last April when he said Democrats "need to cling to the core values that make us Democrats, the belief in universal health care, the belief in universal education, and then we should be agnostic in terms of how to achieve those values."

His argument Thursday not only will be considered through the prism of the presidential campaign, but weighed against rival Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's ill-fated plan to overhaul the health care insurance system (1993) when she was first lady. usatoday30.usatoday.com...


And if he did copy Romney's health care plan then he's even stupider than I thought because that plan was failing before Obama took office. Now MA is scraping their health plan and shifting it's subscribers to the ACA. That's rich.


But officials aren’t sure it’s possible to make that happen in less than six months. Given the narrow timeframe, they intend to simultaneously start shifting the Massachusetts exchange, known as the Connector, to HealthCare.gov.

A move by Massachusetts to the federal exchange would represent a symbolic blow for local Obamacare supporters. Massachusetts built the model of a state-run exchange in 2006, a result of the health care reform effort by then-Gov. Mitt Romney. The RomneyCare exchange, which helped the state provide health coverage to more than 97 percent of residents, became the template for the Obamacare version.

Read more: www.politico.com...


The blind leading the blind.


The reason for Massachusetts Healthcare Reform in the first place is two-fold: political pressure to put a vote to affordable coverage on the ballot, and Federal government pressure for the state to reign in some of the most expensive healthcare costs in the nation.

In 2008, two years after the reform act, health insurance premiums remained a problem. The cost of healthcare was a growing burden on individuals, businesses, and government. Then, the Massachusetts legislature enacted an array of measures related to health care costs and quality like the development of uniform coding and billing standards and prohibitions against hospitals seeking payment for preventable complications from medical errors, all of which helped add to costs.
www.forbes.com...




posted on Nov, 7 2014 @ 07:27 PM
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OK people I love a good debate - so let us set some ground rules:

The Constitution of the United States
The Bill of Rights & All Amendments


We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America..........

This is not debatable - It is part of who we are and it includes all Americans from the Koch brothers to that bum living out of your dumpster - And grants epual rights to all - Any violation of these principles is treason.

And yes there was once a very great Republican who represented these principles and said in words only he was capable of saying that the Constitution of the United States would stand and the blood of its people would flow forever thought its principles.

"....and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.
-from Lincoln's Gettysburg Address, November 19, 1863

A Repblican talking about 'the people' - that was a long time ago - are John Bonner and Mitch McConnell concerned with 'the people'? Or are they bought and paid for by special interests? Are there any American politicians of today who are not bought and paid for? So how can they represent 'the people"?

Its been a long way down my friends - can anyone here see a way up

edit on 7-11-2014 by AlienView because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 7 2014 @ 07:36 PM
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a reply to: AlienView

You do understand that "the people" of their respective states and districts elected them? Are they to not represent those people in favor of what you would prefer them to do?



posted on Nov, 7 2014 @ 07:42 PM
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a reply to: AlienView

Elizabeth Warren. She has a true American Dream story that any Republican has to respect (provided they can ignore the D long enough to listen).

Her entire platform is fighting for the people. If she wanted money she could have taken the paychecks from lobbyists or bankers but she doesn't care.

She has wanted to stop fighting for the middle class and just enjoy her family but she keeps stepping back in the ring because she genuinely cares about human beings.

I pray constantly that she'll run for president and I'm not even religious. She's the only salvation I can see.



posted on Nov, 7 2014 @ 07:43 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

Some people elected them. Far from most people



posted on Nov, 7 2014 @ 07:52 PM
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Did Obamacare sink the Democrats? Not at all. It's just the typical election cycle.

Just speaking of the Senate here, in 2008 the Democrats won big, they got a bunch of seats. That means that 1 term later here in 2014 the Democrats had a bunch of seats to defend. Congress generally turns against a President in their final two years and this was no exception, with all of those seats up for grabs they had a bunch to lose. This election was no more a repudiation of the Democrats or Obamacare than 2016's election will be of the Republicans when they have 27/33 seats to defend (and will likely lose many of those).



posted on Nov, 7 2014 @ 07:59 PM
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a reply to: Aazadan

Your analysis gives many people hope that Republicans will prevail for possibly decades.

It's looks like the general public has had it with all the malarkey.

The entire Democrat Party structure has completely collapsed.

Obama will now make mistakes that will knock eyes out of peoples' heads.

The dropping jaws will break concrete.

It's all over.

R.I.P. Democrat Party.

Sad.



posted on Nov, 7 2014 @ 08:16 PM
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a reply to: xuenchen

Wait, did you read the same post from Aazadan that I did?

The general public hasn't said a thing. 70% of them were washing their cars, shopping for groceries and getting their hair cut yesterday.

Know what they were not doing? Voting for Republicans.

Know what about 47% of the people who did vote were not doing? That's right, voting for Republicans.

Meanwhile Republican freshmen talk about "the Antichrist" and the idea that "eclipses are a sign of God's impending wrath."

And Der Speaker congratulates them and talks about what a great group of folks are soon going to be in Washington.

We will be spectators to 24/7 Investigations on Benghazi, Impeachment proceedings, IRS, Fast and Furious and Michelle Obama's "imperial command that all African Americans eat fried chicken and vote Democratic."

In short order, the Republicans will reveal themselves as the crackpots they are, and the American people (more than the 15% or so who voted these folks in this time) will turn the channel in disgust.

Obama will very carefully and skillfully set the stage for a sweeping 2016 victory for the Democrats. As usually happens.

I predict your "fever dream" will have to wait.



posted on Nov, 7 2014 @ 08:22 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

The general public has spoken with silence.

Silence is a potent weapon as we now see.

The Obama and Administration debacles and boondoggles are just starting.

Watch the carnage and damage they do from now until January.

The "Get Even" Gang is massing against the people as we speak.

Obama might need to consider resignation.




posted on Nov, 7 2014 @ 08:32 PM
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a reply to: xuenchen

I guess you'll ignore the fact that when Obama won twice Republicans SCREAMED BLOODY MURDER about how the election meant nothing and he had no mandate.

Republican wins. It's a mandate. Democrat wins. It's a tragedy and a threat to democracy.


Reminds me of another hypocrisy Republicans engage in. When a Muslim beheads someone it's Islamic terrorism. When a Christian beheads someone its an isolated incident of a mentally ill man.

I don't hate Republicans. I sure do hate the endless hypocrisy though.



posted on Nov, 7 2014 @ 08:34 PM
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a reply to: xuenchen

How Zen! "Spoken with silence."

I have a counter proposal.

Cycles will continue in American politics as they always have, with one difference.

The Republican party of 2014 is not the party of 1994 or 1980.

And talk about boondoggles? Just wait to see Freshmen Republicans talking about God's Wrath on primetime TV.

That's not going to play well to the Millenials, Xers and Y's.

The Republican mantra of cut taxes on the rich and spend less on basic services will not just hurt the welfare queens.

Joe and Mary Sixpack will be wondering why they can't afford to take Joe Jr. to the doc anymore.

The arrogance coupled with righteousness inherent in the current Republican crop will cause the word "conservative" to be a swear word for a hundred years.

And Republicans will slink off, as they have so many times before, and wonder if they're going the Way of the Whigs.



posted on Nov, 7 2014 @ 08:56 PM
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originally posted by: tavi45
a reply to: xuenchen

I guess you'll ignore the fact that when Obama won twice Republicans SCREAMED BLOODY MURDER about how the election meant nothing and he had no mandate.
They were right too !


Republican wins. It's a mandate. Democrat wins. It's a tragedy and a threat to democracy.
The mandate started with the 2010 elections !


Reminds me of another hypocrisy Republicans engage in. When a Muslim beheads someone it's Islamic terrorism. When a Christian beheads someone its an isolated incident of a mentally ill man.
Pointless - off topic !


I don't hate Republicans. I sure do hate the endless hypocrisy though.
Good for You !





posted on Nov, 7 2014 @ 08:59 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

How Zen! "Spoken with silence."


It's more of a Taoist method.




posted on Nov, 7 2014 @ 09:09 PM
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Hey, let the Tea Party have its way. Cut out the health care, the food stamps, supplementary income for the poor, reduce or eliminate all government entitlements. Yes, let them have their way - And when the blood of hungry people runs on the streets
give more to the military and the police, they can handle it - If worse comes to worse [and it will] they can set up internment [concentration] camps and put those undesirables in them - Yes let the new Republicans under Tea party control have their way. But just remember one thing - this is not the Republican party of Abraham Lincoln - This is the Republican party of the Third Reich. Welcome to the New World Order [aka: The Fourth Reich].



posted on Nov, 7 2014 @ 09:13 PM
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a reply to: xuenchen

I wasn't aware that Taoism was about completely stonewalling any outside input that disrupts your narrow worldview.

Tao is about Yin and Yang. You're a bit yin deficient



posted on Nov, 7 2014 @ 09:14 PM
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a reply to: AlienView



And here I thought the Tea Party was gone and no longer a viable alternative.

But just the same, can you link up to some proof of that agenda?

Might be interesting.




posted on Nov, 7 2014 @ 09:16 PM
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In answer to the title of the thread, “No, the Democrats sunk the Democrats”. As usual their complacency did them in. They need to grow a spine. The Republicans have become the radical party, and it kills them they aren’t running everything.

I get tired of so many folks trashing Obamacare. I think most are doing so simply because they’ve been brainwashed by Fox News and Rush Limbaugh. They’re just echoing the baseless claims made by their heroes Ted Cruz, Sean Hannity and Mark Levin. Screw the facts. Just jump on the conservative (these days that means, radical right) bandwagon. Actually, the ACA is working much better than originally anticipated. Millions of folks who previously would have gone to the emergency room and then stiffed the hospital now have insurance. Unless you had a garbage insurance policy in the first place, you were not forced to participate in the ACA. Health costs are growing at the lowest rate in the past 50 years, the CBO scored the bill as reducing the deficit, etc. There may be a few employers who’ve jumped the gun (the mandate doesn’t go into effect for business until next year) and reduced employee hours, but they didn’t have to and most haven’t. Sure, there are things about the bill needing to be changed, but that’s no reason to scrap the whole thing. And, for the record, ACA (including the mandate) was a Republican idea hatched by the Heritage Foundation before it was a Democratic idea. It worked like a charm in Mit Romney’s state.

The Republicans are the ones blocking legislation and obstructing any/all progress in Congress for the past 6 years. It’s not a closely held secret, and is obvious to anyone not in a braindead coma. To claim otherwise is an insult to the intelligence of anyone with an IQ over 60. I’ll bet if Obama suggested we cut taxes in half for the upper 1% and abolish taxes on all corporations, the Republicans would block it.

Also, I wish the Republicans would finally face the fact that trickle down economics just don’t work. The solution for EVERYTHING is not to cut taxes for the rich, ruling elite, and for corporate entities. While it may work well for the rich and famous, and for Exxon-Mobil, it’s a poison pill for everyone else.

And for those complaining about Pelosi, at least she had the balls to control her caucus. Unlike Boner, I mean Boehner, who drops to his knees when in the presence of the Tea Party.

I could go on and on, but there’s no point. I’m not changing anything by this; I’m just letting off a little steam. Actually I hate politics. I’m an Independent, and have issues with both major parties. Still, I’ll never understand all the hate for Obama, unless it’s racism, and I don’t blame Obama for EVERYTHING. That’s just a copout, and grossly ignorant. His administration has been a day at the beach compared to the Bush/Cheney crime syndicate. In general, I view the Democrats as spineless and Republicans as ruthless. What a choice.

David Letterman made a comment on his show the other night that pretty well sums up this whole debacle. He said, “Take a look at this: gas under $3 a gallon – under $3 a gallon. Unemployment under 6%, whoever thought? Stock market breaking records every day. No wonder the guy (Obama) is so unpopular.”

Cheers!



posted on Nov, 7 2014 @ 09:16 PM
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a reply to: xuenchen

"Senator, I served with Taoists. I knew Taoists. Taoists were friends of mine. Senator, you're no Taoist."

Just joshin', course.



posted on Nov, 8 2014 @ 02:10 AM
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originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: Aazadan

Your analysis gives many people hope that Republicans will prevail for possibly decades.

It's looks like the general public has had it with all the malarkey.

The entire Democrat Party structure has completely collapsed.

Obama will now make mistakes that will knock eyes out of peoples' heads.

The dropping jaws will break concrete.

It's all over.

R.I.P. Democrat Party.

Sad.



I'm not quite sure how you got that from my post. My post was pointing out that the usual election cycles in the Senate which typically reverse every 6 years didn't happen in 2010. The Republicans kept their 2004 numbers to everyones surprise and even grew them in order to stop a super majority... desperate times, desperate measures, and all that. This huge block of Republican senators will be up or election in 2016. An election that (going by the current cliamte) is going to be about candidates creating issues and debating them rather than the crisis of the day dictating conversation.

The Republicans have these next two years, and I hope they do well but when they go into the election they're actually in the worst position possible when going into an election with no incumbent. Assuming good candidates on each side I would say 2014 has set us up for a democrat supermajority in 2016 with about 60% odds. The big problem the Republicans are going to have is that their president is in charge of all the messaging while the democrats get to use congressional races they're going to win, as well as their president to put out a message.

People like you if I'm right won't be too happy with Republicans for the next few years either. The traditional base does not matter going into 2016, it's all the swing voters and that block is changing rapidly. Republicans need to be more centrist in order to get these votes, and they're in the perfect position to do that now given the details of the 2016 election, and McConnell the deal broker in power... I give them a 40% chance of pulling this off and winning the presidency. Honestly, the next time you matter to the Republicans is 2018.

But you're free to believe whatever you want. I'll just continue to test my analytical skills.



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