BBC Says Russia has invaded the Ukraine (10th time)

a reply to: VirusGuard

Surface to air missile attack ruled out

You may want to update that source of yours...

www.reuters.com...

And how many times does it need to be shown that an SU 25 will not be able to fly that high with weapons and ammunition, let alone shoot their cannons at a height they cannot achieve?

Unless your saying the manufacturers are lying about the plane they built, so how does an SU 25 achieve this feat?

Sorry looking at the bullet holes I don't know if the 30mm cannon was from a SU-25 or not and yes I know the debate about the service celling but bullet holes are bullet holes and it does not take a year of investigations to know that much.

And it hasn't been a year, also it is not as easy to investigate it when parts of the plane are moved before the investigation even began.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

And you do know who that is correct?

OK I can take the flack but I don't have a clue who this "Pavel Gubarev" is and that is not a Nazi sticker for one and I can show you pictures of Prince Harry wearing a real Nazi cross but one person does not make all the rebels Nazi's however burring 50 people to death and marching down the streets with burning torches does.

Commies are not Nazi's which they fought and won them in the second world war only to have the USA take most of the top butchers and give them a new life but Kiev has so many of them that they are staging protests every other day in central Kiev and Nazi's fighting Nazi's is not logical so why do you persist.

a reply to: VirusGuard

OK I can take the flack but I don't have a clue who this "Pavel Gubarev" is and that is not a Nazi sticker for one and I can show you pictures of Prince Harry wearing a real Nazi cross but one person does not make all the rebels Nazi's however burring 50 people to death and marching down the streets with burning torches does.

Well then you may want to read this...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

And yet because a few in Ukraine have the Nazi ideology that means the whole government is or at least according to the Russian backers here on ATS it does.

And you can provide proof that they burned 50 people to death?

Commies are not Nazi's which they fought and won them in the second world war only to have the USA take most of the top butchers and give them a new life but Kiev has so many of them that they are staging protests every other day in central Kiev and Nazi's fighting Nazi's is not logical so why do you persist.

And yet Russia doesn't have to be Nazi's to follow in their footsteps.

www.themoscowtimes.com...

So now everybody that protests in Ukraine are Nazi's, because that is what your saying, and what exactly am I persisting on?

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Unless your saying the manufacturers are lying about the plane they built, so how does an SU 25 achieve this feat?

Assuming it was a SU-25 then its a bit like the dam busters attacks where they reduce the weight of the plane by keeping fuel in wing tanks that got dropped if needed and not carrying any bombs.

if you watch any history about planes than you will see that they are getting upgraded and modified all the time

The BBC knew in seconds that "Russia did it" because some news reporter in a short skirt told them so and then when the BBC removed the articles they never said Sorry to Russia

And you can provide proof that they burned 50 people to death?

I did if you care to scroll back up ! Some put the number of deaths closer to a hundred

And yet because a few in Ukraine have the Nazi ideology that means the whole government is

We both know its not a few when it comes to Kiev so lets not pretend over something that is common knowledge to anyone that looks

You might like to update your source



Or did you not think that Russia was watching it airspace in the area with tensions being so high.

a reply to: VirusGuard 9 may 2014 victory day in ww2 reported that peoples militias seized Ukrainian fascists 2 systems multiple rocket launchers people chanting well done since then a lot of that militia seized armored artillery, small arms and able to defeat the fascists but Putin and Lukashenko betrayed Novorossia truce in Minsk

Has Russia invaded Ukraine yet?

a reply to: VirusGuard

Assuming it was a SU-25 then its a bit like the dam busters attacks where they reduce the weight of the plane by keeping fuel in wing tanks that got dropped if needed and not carrying any bombs.

They couldn't reach that height with anything that could be used to bring down that jet. Care to provide anything that will show that plane will do what you think it will, and the manufacturers even say it won't go that high so you must know something they don't...you should let them know.

And as far as it being an SU 25...that is what Russia has said it was, in fact they even were caught changing the wiki page for that plane to try and back their claims.

Here take a read and understand that an SU 25 is not capable of doing what you think it can.

scottlocklin.wordpress.com...

if you watch any history about planes than you will see that they are getting upgraded and modified all the time

And if you did some research you would see Ukraine doesn't have an SU 25 that is upgraded that will fly that high, in fact here is a list of the planes they have show me which one got upgraded to do what you think it can?

Su-25
Su-25UB
Su-25K
Su-25UTG
Su-25M1
Su-25UBM1

en.wikipedia.org...

I did if you care to scroll back up ! Some put the number of deaths closer to a hundred

It could be a 1000 that still doesn't prove your claim now does it?

We both know its not a few when it comes to Kiev so lets not pretend over something that is common knowledge to anyone that looks

Common knowledge to those who want to make the assertion without evidence to back the claim.

You might like to update your source

Sure when you can prove that source wrong...can you do that?

Or did you not think that Russia was watching it airspace in the area with tensions being so high.

And yet they had to change the wiki page to back their claim...oh and they were caught doing it.

theaviationist.com...

gawker.com...

And also the fact that Russia called it a fighter jet shows they are far from being right as the SU 25 is not a fighter jet but a ground attack plane shows they are lying...and a Russian general should know the difference between the two.

a reply to: mangust69

Are you saying that Putin has sold the Ukraine rebels out ?

I don't think that the Russian people would let him get away with that regardless of what sanctions may follow as a result.



Pause this when it shows the bullet holes and tell me they are not from Bullets.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Yes you are right about flight data being changed about a SU-25 on the internet to LOWER its flight celling but I won't give a link because even when I do you will still break out and demand that I prove it.

Machine guns and not just bombs on a plane says to me that it is able to defend itself and therefor its a fighter and if that's a technical mistake then the blame is with me.

It could be a 1000 that still doesn't prove your claim now does it?

Are you saying that no one died or that the building was not in the Ukraine or that the whole thing was made up by Hollywood. As I said some people put it way above 50 and closer to a hundred, I don't know myself because I was not with the Nazi's from Kiev or jumping for my life from a window only to be battered to death if the fall did not kill me.

Now if you want to believe the latest scare from the BBC that Russia has hacked the whitehouse and that the KGB would not know how to use a VPN to edit Wikipedia about the capabilities of a SU-25 then that's up to you but me, I am still waiting for some pictures from the BBC showing this "Russian Invasion" instead of the speculation we always get when it comes to Russia.

a reply to: VirusGuard

Pause this when it shows the bullet holes and tell me they are not from Bullets.

And you may want to listen when he says we don't have the expertise to say whether they were bullets or not.

But hey why not post the whole interview...

www.cbc.ca...

a reply to: VirusGuard

Yes you are right about flight data being changed about a SU-25 on the internet to LOWER its flight celling but I won't give a link because even when I do you will still break out and demand that I prove it.

Oh my you really aren't serious, because guess what it comes from the manufacturer.

www.sukhoi.org...

Please provide what info you have that the flight ceiling has been lowered that didn't come from the manufacturer, becauuse as you can see above the manufacturer tells you exactly what an SU 25 can do unless your saying they are lying too?

Machine guns and not just bombs on a plane says to me that it is able to defend itself and therefor its a fighter and if that's a technical mistake then the blame is with me.

Well at least your excepting the blame, but please learn the difference.

Are you saying that no one died or that the building was not in the Ukraine or that the whole thing was made up by Hollywood.

Now did I say that, because what you said is that 50 people were killed buy Ukranian Nazi's, and yet you have no proof Ukraine was behind it let alone the fact that Nazi's from Ukraine even did it.

As I said some people put it way above 50 and closer to a hundred, I don't know myself because I was not with the Nazi's from Kiev or jumping for my life from a window only to be battered to death if the fall did not kill me.

And yet you posted it as being the truth...why?

Now if you want to believe the latest scare from the BBC that Russia has hacked the whitehouse and that the KGB would not know how to use a VPN to edit Wikipedia about the capabilities of a SU-25 then that's up to you but me, I am still waiting for some pictures from the BBC showing this "Russian Invasion" instead of the speculation we always get when it comes to Russia.

So let's just jog your memory here shall we...

Ukraine's security service said its military had captured the 10 Russian paratroopers near the village of Dzerkalne, about 50km (30 miles) south-east of the rebel-held city of Donetsk and about 20km from the Russian border.

www.bbc.com...

And let's not forget Crimea...which is part of Ukraine when Putin sent troops to there and he admits to sending troops to Crimea.

www.businessinsider.com...

www.stuff.co.nz...

And note that there is a difference between sending troops to Crimea and deploying troops in Crimea. If you send them they aren't already there, if you deploy them in Crimea they are already there.

originally posted by: nukedog
Has Russia invaded Ukraine yet?

That happened the moment Putin sent non insignia troops into Crimea, Ukraine.

a reply to: Xcathdra

That happened the moment Putin sent non insignia troops into Crimea, Ukraine.

Don't worry because you have some of them in the USA too or did have once

Odd thing is that no one died in the Crimea apart from one person but when ever the USA sends anyone for help and protection from Blackwater to advisers to 1500 extra men to train the Iraqi army for the second time then people start to fall over dead so you are not really comparing eggs with eggs.

The good people of the Crimea will be sitting nice and warm this winter eating Christmas dinner even after the Ukraine tried to cut off the power supplies and also the water systems safe in the knowledge that their pensions all went up on top of their wages.

Now the people in poor old Kiev has a double dose of Austerity to look forwards to from the EU, A large gas bill they still owe half on and the prospects of uncle Putin cutting the gas off needed to cook the festive Turkey.

if/when riots break out in Kiev then I will be the first to agree with you that its all Putin's fault for offering a better future for the Ukraine who the last time I looked had a disbanded parliament so many be they need to get all the young out of the city and fighting in the east before they have a chance to riot.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h
I told you that I won't be providing any links because even when I do you want to argue if I can prove every single fact like the number of people burnt alive in the east of the Ukraine so I see no point also don't put words in my mouth thank you.

Look again I said flight celling had been altered but regardless of that you are trying to say that the operational attributes of a plane cannot be exceeded when the dam buster raids proved they can and records in aviation's are being broken all the time.

You ignore the bullet holes, you ignore logic and eye witnesses and even radar data provided by Russia and reports from experts based in Germany and continue to listen to Kiev and the western media who keeps telling us that Russia is attacking with large columns of tanks.

My question to you is WHY !

a reply to: VirusGuard

Why are you on about topics that have been hashed out on countless other threads, yet continue to ignore this remark about your own OP:

Let me drag you back on topic. The title of this thread is a deliberate lie. The BBC did not say "Russia has invaded the Ukraine (10th time). What it said, and I quote exactly, is:

A column of 32 tanks and 30 trucks has crossed into eastern Ukraine from Russia, the Ukrainian government says.

The trucks were carrying ammunition and fighters, said a military spokesman, but the BBC cannot confirm his report.

Your original source.[Emphasis mine. --DJW001]

The BBC is not claiming that Russia has invaded Ukraine, it is accurately reporting what a spokesman of the legal government in Kyiv has said. They acknowledge they cannot confirm the claim, which makes the report objective journalism. Your distorting what the BBC actually said is blatant, and worst of all sloppy, propaganda, as it is easily disproved.

Breaking news:

At 13:55hrs, on the eastern outskirts of Makeevka (25km north-east of Donetsk), within territory under control of the “Donetsk People’s Republic” (“DPR”), the SMM observed a convoy of more than 40 trucks and tankers moving west on highway H-21.

Of these 19 were large trucks – Kamaz type, covered, and without markings or number plates – each towing a 122mm howitzer and containing personnel in dark green uniforms without insignia. Fifteen were Kraz troop carriers. The SMM was on the move and could therefore not ascertain the contents of these. The remaining six were small fuel tankers, fitted with cranes. The SMM observed an unmarked BTR armoured personnel carrier leading the convoy, with a tarpaulin over the gun.

At 15:20hrs, at the intersection of Leninskyi Street and Kuprin Street (7km south-west of Donetsk city centre) the SMM observed a convoy of nine tanks – four T72 and five T64 – moving west, also unmarked.

OSCE.[Emphasis mine. --DJW001]

Hmmmm... what country located to the east of Donetsk sends unmarked troops and vehicles into battle...?

a reply to: VirusGuard

I told you that I won't be providing any links because even when I do you want to argue if I can prove every single fact like the number of people burnt alive in the east of the Ukraine so I see no point also don't put words in my mouth thank you.

Sure, so what words did I put in your mouth?

Is this not what you said...

Machine guns and not just bombs on a plane says to me that it is able to defend itself and therefor its a fighter and if that's a technical mistake then the blame is with me.

All I did was compliment you on taking the blame.

Or was it this...

And yet you posted it as being the truth...why?

Because you posted it as if it were the true number and I asked why, so again what words did I put in your mouth?

a reply to: DJW001

Hmmmm... what country located to the east of Donetsk sends unmarked troops and vehicles into battle...?

Pick me, pick me I know...does it start with an R and end in A with ussi in the middle?

originally posted by: DJW001
Let me drag you back on topic.

Thank you for doing, and also in highlighting the silliness of the assertion by the OP that the BBC was reporting propaganda when in fact it was reporting what was being claimed, but that it was unverified.

Regards

a reply to: DJW001
The BBC has report a so called Russian invasion about ten times now so the title is right and for the 3rd time I will say again that I am happy to go off topic with you to correct you on your mistakes.

paraphi

The BBC continues to make these so called silly mistakes by quoting the village idiot when it suites its needs and given that the BBC controls the airwaves in the UK then trying to describe it political view as being any thing other than state propaganda is silly.

Every other week the BBC has one group or another protesting about its bias reporting outside its offices that the MET police will soon need to start billing the BBC for crowd control service.

Why else do you think that the viewer ratings of Russia Today is so high

The BBC would not dare show "unconfirmed" reports of bullets in flight Mh17 else its paymasters in government would soon cut it off and that on top of the paedophile scandal that's unfolding between ex government ministers and the BBC so maybe you should investigate that lead I gave you before assuming the BBC as being anything other than what it is.

a reply to: DJW001

I am curious as to why the BBC would bother reporting something that is unverified, and phrase it in the usual light so that it resonates in the brain for most as BLOODY FACT.

Ukraine has been a melting pot of murkiness and gypsy like behavior for along time, why is it so important that you believe that big bad Russia is making it worse LOL.