It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

BBC Says Russia has invaded the Ukraine (10th time)

page: 16
16
<< 13  14  15    17  18  19 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Nov, 11 2014 @ 05:06 PM
link   
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

I was not aware there were varying degrees of war crimes.

Its good to know you are just as biased as you accuse others of being.




posted on Nov, 11 2014 @ 05:08 PM
link   
a reply to: Agent_USA_Supporter

Ive never deflected when answering your every other day question.

In fact we have shown you when Russia invaded Ukraine. You opt to ignore the facts and repeat the same question thats been asked and answered time and again.



posted on Nov, 11 2014 @ 05:15 PM
link   
a reply to: Xcathdra



I was not aware there were varying degrees of war crimes.


Well now you know.



Its good to know you are just as biased as you accuse others of being.


And still trying to wanting to paint a certain picture of people ?...it`s getting old...yaaawn !



posted on Nov, 11 2014 @ 06:14 PM
link   

originally posted by: Agent_USA_Supporter
I remember on ATS during the war in Libya how were there posters supporting the NATO air strikes and the rebel fighters thus claiming that anyone whom was supporting Gaddafi and is not supporting the NATO air strikes would be seen as an Gaddafi troll or agent. Which is how i am now here being accused of being Russian agent and i find that comical at the very least.



So according to the Ukrankian nationalist supporters and Poroshenko westren supporters, if you dont support Poroshenko or McCain views on Ukraine therefore your an Russian Agent.


I'm not accusing anyone in this thread of being a "Russian Agent". That would do absolutely no good and not be conducive to constructive debate. I enjoy debating those who hold a pro-Russian stance. It's interesting to really pick the brain of someone like that, and find out why they think what they think.

I'm also not here to say that either side is definitively wrong or right. In all likelihood, it's a little a both. Nations have been fighting proxy wars for years, and this is especially true for Nuclear armed nations.

I do not hold yours, nor any other pro-russian poster's comments in any ill regard, and I appreciate when we have the (sometimes rare) thoughtful and respectful debates.

Now if you put a gun to my head and forced me to pick a side, I'd not hesitate to say pro-Western. I was born and raised in the U.S., so my allegiance is to the United States, at least until I naturalize as a Japanese citizen.
edit on 11-11-2014 by ScientificRailgun because: I WASN'T DONE TYPING, COMPUTER.



posted on Nov, 11 2014 @ 06:45 PM
link   
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Do you think it has to do with how Americans have been brought up why they only seem to think there are but just two options?

In Europe you`re brought up with many more choices in general when growing up and the whole pro and anti remarks seems to be not that predominant in discussions either over here?



posted on Nov, 11 2014 @ 06:53 PM
link   
a reply to: Xcathdra

You dont even know whats an invasion. The Iraqi war the war on Iraq was an invasion. Now tell me did Russia do the same in Ukraine? did they use blitzkrieg? according to you and news media for the 11 time.

RUSSIA INVADES UKRAINE FOR THE 17th TIME


No doubt when your holy man speaks the next time i am quite sure your going to dig it in. So i am starting to think your either Russian or Ukrainian otherwise you wouldn't be pushing this Russian issue on Ukraine as important.

The majority of Americans dont care about this issue.
edit on 11-11-2014 by Agent_USA_Supporter because: (no reason given)

edit on 11-11-2014 by Agent_USA_Supporter because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 11 2014 @ 07:39 PM
link   
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

To be frank, most Americans don't even know where Ukraine is on a map, much less have an opinion about what's going on over there aside from "Putin is being a big ol' bully".

Yes the pro western side is pushed in America, that's a given. I've read on both side of the issue and have formed my own opinion, of course. Decidedly, I lean toward the western view of things after doing my own research. As I've stated before, I tend to shy away from articles that refer to a government as a "Junta" or use other nasty buzzwords to describe the opposition. Many of the articles I've read from a slightly western viewpoint avoid using buzzwords or deliberately pushing the reader in one direction or another.

And I'm not talking about just American news sources. I read RT. (Yes, I do read the view from the other side), I read Al Jazeera, I watch ITAR-TASS, The young turks, BBC, JNN (ジャパン ニュース ネットワーク "Japan News Network"), I watch NHK World a lot as well. So I can say I've read up from quite a few viewpoints. Every single one of them has an agenda to push, of course, but watching and reading all I can on the topic has given me a pretty informed opinion of what's actually going on.

While the west is certainly pulling SOME strings in Kiev (after all, they want to be part of NATO. There HAS to be some western involvement), Putin's reaction to it (in my opinion) has been rather disproportionate in response. Russia has also gone to great pains to mask what it's doing in Ukraine. I remember reading about the "aid" trucks that turned out to be armaments and supplies for the pro-Russian separatists. Not very classy. There's also the whole debate over who shot down MH17. There's recorded audio from separatist leaders to their Russian handlers, there's people saying that audio is one big fake, and the whole issue has gotten muddy.

But at the end of the day, I honestly believe the Ukraine would be better off with a western democracy than under the Soviet's Communism. That's my personal belief, so I lean toward Ukraine being out from under Putin. Historically, the only nation where Communism has "worked" is China, and that's debatable to an extent as well. Russia has undergone a lot of strife because of Communism, be it the millions that died in WWII, the bloody revolution of it's recent past, the dissolution of the Soviet Union... And with China's massive censorship campaigns, their crushing of any opposing their glorious communist paradise, political prisoners and assassinations, I could go on. Economically, China is doing quite well, if even the gap between the "haves" and "have-nots" is widening. Heck, it's widening in the U.S. as well. So I can't really take them to task for that.

Again, these are my opinions. This is how I feel, as an ex-pat living in Asia. Democracy afforded me the opportunity to chose my own path in life, to make my own decisions, and most importantly, the freedom to do what I believe is right. It's what has allowed me to live the life I currently enjoy, so I'm thankful for that.



posted on Nov, 11 2014 @ 09:35 PM
link   
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

A lot can be sad about your views.



I remember reading about the "aid" trucks that turned out to be armaments and supplies for the pro-Russian separatists.


Only said by Western Media, no proof about what so ever. The first aid-convoy was most likely all aid, the later ones are hard to tell.



Soviet's Communism.


Was something of the 20th century



Ukraine would be better off with a western democracy


Try to look for what it means if IMF takes a over country (IMF : Portugal, Greece, Cyprus, etc.). Actual Russia had a much better deal for them.



Democracy afforded me the opportunity to chose my own path in life, to make my own decisions, and most importantly, the freedom to do what I believe is right.


There`s is no Democracy in Europe or US, only the illusion.



- after all, they want to be part of NATO.


But the people didn`t wanted that, they even didn`t wanted to be part of the EU (in the West there are predominantly people who are Western orientated, but the majority of the Ukrainians wanted to stay independent).



There's recorded audio from separatist leaders to their Russian handlers, there's people saying that audio is one big fake, and the whole issue has gotten muddy.


In the run up there have been way more military planes been shot down and audio recordings from some of them have been taped together.

There was a pro-Western president before and Russia did nothing. Only thing Russia didn`t wanted was Ukraine becoming a Western puppet state and have NATO troops also in Ukraine. Russia was fine with Ukraine getting a trade agreement with the EU.

Russia warned the West of not trying to make Ukraine a Western puppet state (what the majority of Ukrainians actual also did not wanted). US/EU knew well what was going to happen, they were warned about it by Putin in `08 if they tried to do that. US also knew Russia didn`t wanted this problems.

Yanukovych already made a deal about having early elections, but that wasn`t enough for some forces so protestors got shot.

Ukraine was not about what Ukrainians wanted, was not and has never been. It was about drawing Russia into a Afghanistan like war, trying to get rid of Putin by weakening Russia economically, punishing Putin for helping out Assad and making the strike on Syria failing, keeping Russia busy for when Syria and Iran will be attacked in the future and for a general undermining of Russia becoming too strong of a force in Eurasia, Russia attacking the Petrodollar, to break up the Iran/Russia/China alliance and to stop Russia from selling gas to EU by an Qatar gas pipeline through Syria.

Maybe give it all a better study to know what`s really going on, you seem smart enough to figure these things out by looking a bit better into them.

edit on 11 11 2014 by BornAgainAlien because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 11 2014 @ 09:58 PM
link   
a reply to: DJW001


In other words, this "documentary" may have been produced for the specific purpose of justifying a full blown military invasion to the Russian people.

it could be but the experts at that type of deception has to be the BBC and CNN

Anything could be but unless you are saying that the footage was faked then the facts remain that mass murder was committed

Putin is more than likely trying to stop the fighting but with this type of news seeping out then his people might force his hand and I for one hope they do



posted on Nov, 11 2014 @ 10:04 PM
link   
a reply to: ScientificRailgun


To be frank, most Americans don't even know where Ukraine is on a map, much less have an opinion about what's going on over there aside from "Putin is being a big ol' bully".


No I think most Americans can see above the propaganda due to the use of the internet and knows just who is starting trouble and would have watched Ron Paul talking about the $5bn sent to Kiev to seed this conflict.

The "no boots on the ground" in Iraq is looking a bit silly, people are not that stupid and all they need now are more services cut to pay for all this trouble or for taxes to go up and the USA might have a bit of trouble at home.

I will meet you in the middle and say 50/50 if you like



I enjoy debating those who hold a pro-Russian stance


You don't need to be pro-Russian to make a stance against war crimes and deception from the media
edit on 11-11-2014 by VirusGuard because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 11 2014 @ 10:14 PM
link   
a reply to: tsurfer2000h


Really Alex Jones...and you think the sources I use are propaganda and not reliable...

I must admit that even I must agree with you here.

What gets me is he says "They are watching you" Which they are but then he goes and puts Google spyware all over his site.

He does look a bit like the late Bill Hicks to me



posted on Nov, 12 2014 @ 02:21 AM
link   
a reply to: Agent_USA_Supporter




Since when is posting news articles from western new outlets shown as intellectual? let me guess you still believe that Russia invaded Ukraine "STEALTHY"


Your right Russia never invaded Ukraine, they just have soldiers dying there, and getting caught 30 miles inside Ukraine...but I forgot the official line from Russia is they just got lost.

Russia couldn't be stealthy if they tried.



posted on Nov, 12 2014 @ 02:36 AM
link   
a reply to: BornAgainAlien



Only said by Western Media, no proof about what so ever. The first aid-convoy was most likely all aid, the later ones are hard to tell.


Here you go if they were all aid why was RUssia afraid to let the trucks get inspected and transferred over in Ukraine like the original agreement?

If you have nothing to hide you let them get inspected and you do as you agreed...you don't let 35 trucks get looked at then decide no more and rush through the crossing before they get the chance to be inspected.

But I guess it's okay since it was Russia doing it right?



But the people didn`t wanted that, they even didn`t wanted to be part of the EU


Seriously you have no clue as that was the biggest reason they had protests...because Yanukovych said he was signing the agreement then turned around and decided to go with RUssia as they strongarmed him with losing ties if he signed. You may want to actually do some research away from RUssian media so you may learn the truth.



Ukraine was not about what Ukrainians wanted, was not and has never been.


Well your right as it was about how much money a power hungry president could get and with his cronies and Kremlin backers he just figured he could do what he wanted and nobody would say anything...much like Putin has done in RUssia.




It was about drawing Russia into a Afghanistan like war, trying to get rid of Putin by weakening Russia economically, punishing Putin for helping out Assad and making the strike on Syria failing, keeping Russia busy for when Syria and Iran will be attacked in the future and for a general undermining of Russia becoming too strong of a force in Eurasia, Russia attacking the Petrodollar, to break up the Iran/Russia/China alliance and to stop Russia from selling gas to EU by an Qatar gas pipeline through Syria.


Your a big Tom Clancey fan aren't you, as that sounds like it came straight from one of his books.



Maybe give it all a better study to know what`s really going on


Maybe you should take your own advice...it may help you in the end.



posted on Nov, 12 2014 @ 02:52 AM
link   
a reply to: Agent_USA_Supporter




You dont even know whats an invasion. The Iraqi war the war on Iraq was an invasion. Now tell me did Russia do the same in Ukraine?


So every war has to be the same as Iraq to be a war in your mind?

The ME again why am I not surprised at that?

An invasion doesn't have to have massive troop movements to be considered an invasion, but the fact they took and annexed part of a sovereign country that is an invasion by the very definition.


in·va·sion (n-vzhn)
n.
1. The act of invading, especially the entrance of an armed force into a territory to conquer.
2. A large-scale onset of something injurious or harmful, such as a disease.
3. An intrusion or encroachment.


www.thefreedictionary.com...

Now let's see did...

Russia send armed troops to Crimea to take it over...check

Did Russia intrude or encroach on Crimea...check

Yep it's an invasion...sorry.



So i am starting to think your either Russian or Ukrainian otherwise you wouldn't be pushing this Russian issue on Ukraine as important.



And did you not say this...



Sound to you and another one buddy of yours are doing nothing more then attacking then answering


So you bitch at someone for doing something then turn around and do it yourself...Amazing the amount of hypocrisy you exude.



posted on Nov, 12 2014 @ 09:27 AM
link   
Looks like its been confirmed on Russian military equipment crossing into Ukraine by AFP.


Ukraine preparing for combat in face of Russian build-up


Donetsk (Ukraine) (AFP) - Ukraine said Wednesday it was readying for fresh combat operations in the war-torn east as NATO backed claims that Moscow has poured columns of military hardware across the border.

Kiev's warning will fuel fears of a return to all-out conflict despite a two-month-old ceasefire deal which has halted fighting along much of the frontline but not stopped shelling at strategic flashpoints.

Defence Minister Stepan Poltorak said Kiev was preparing for a new round of fighting after seeing "increased activity" by Russia and pro-Moscow rebels across the region.

"The main task I see is to prepare for combat operations. We are doing this, we are readying our reserves," Poltorak said at the start of a cabinet meeting.

"We observe their movements, we know where they are and we expect unpredictable actions from them."

He said the situation in the conflict zone was "complicated but stable" for now.

His comments came as NATO's supreme commander threw his weight behind allegations that Moscow has stepped up the flow of armaments across the frontier.

"We have seen columns of Russian equipment, primarily Russian tanks, Russian artillery, Russian air defence systems and Russian combat troops entering into Ukraine," US General Philip Breedlove said in Sofia.



posted on Nov, 12 2014 @ 12:22 PM
link   
Well the title on the thread has become a little outdated today after yet another "Russian Invasion" that Xcathdra is reporting on so that's the 11th time that the BBC has tried to take people for fools.

Xcathdra thread

WARNING Nukes deployed by Russia well according to the BBC and this time they don't even try the trick of saying "Unconfirmed reports" or even "unnamed sources inform the BBC" so it must be true except they don't have any reliable proof that can be verified by anyone.

You will know if Russia invades as the UN will immediately announced an emergency meeting of member states and the ground will tremble in the Ukraine but obviously the UN does not want to make itself look even half the fool that CNN/BBC has us down for.


edit on 12-11-2014 by VirusGuard because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 12 2014 @ 12:26 PM
link   
a reply to: VirusGuard

Gonna need a source to an article from BBC saying nukes have been deployed.

Weird, I can't seem to find one on the BBC main site.

EDIT: Nevermind, found it.

Hmm, seems pretty cut and dry. Russia is moving nuclear weapons to Crimea. Which, according to Russia, belongs to them. But according to the rest of the civilized world, belongs to Ukraine.

So yes, Russia has put nuclear weapons in an "occupied" territory. Neat.
edit on 12-11-2014 by ScientificRailgun because: FOUND IT! :3



posted on Nov, 12 2014 @ 12:41 PM
link   

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
a reply to: VirusGuard
Gonna need a source to an article from BBC saying nukes have been deployed.
Weird, I can't seem to find one on the BBC main site.


its in the other thread but here you go.

Nukes deployed by Russia



posted on Nov, 12 2014 @ 01:18 PM
link   

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
There`s is no Democracy in Europe or US, only the illusion.


Yep. It's all an illusion. Yet, democracies - regardless of their flaws - are freer, less corrupt, more advanced, better life expectancy, better judicial systems, better educated, have far better human rights and the leadership can (and frequently is) removed by people casting ballots. This contrasts with shambles that is Russian democracy / autocracy and one party China, where it is literally "one man, one vote".

Everyone else is thick and deluded and all those people who flee political persecution are idiots?! Except you, of course. Only you know the truth. Is your sofa comfy?

I don't know where you live, but take a one way ticket to Moscow and relax in the comfort of real police corruption and a political system which has failed the Russian people. Try demonstrating in China, or even accessing any decent websites!

en.wikipedia.org...

Regards



posted on Nov, 12 2014 @ 03:24 PM
link   
a reply to: paraphi


Yep. It's all an illusion. Yet, democracies - regardless of their flaws - are freer, less corrupt, more advanced, better life expectancy

They can also change and if the past few years are anything to go by then this "less corrupt" will soon/ has become "More corrupt"

its an illusion all right like he says and fast dyeing but if you like the taste of fracking chemicals in you water that 99% of the population is against then don't let me stop you drinking it.




top topics



 
16
<< 13  14  15    17  18  19 >>

log in

join