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Martial Law: Hypothetical

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posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 03:46 AM
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What do you think would happen, when and if, martial law was declared after a national emegency, possibly precipetated from another mass-causality producing terrorist attack.

Consider the following parallels to US-Iraq's martial law:

1. Forced Retina, ID cards and fingerprinting
2. "Everyone could be a terrorist" intelligence briefs to paranoid policing forces, causing high civilian mortality.
3. Prison abuse

Considering the following US policies for such an event:

1. Reagan Executive Order 84
2. Detention of mass civil dissent in concentration camps - "Ashcroft"
3. Relocation of citizens into compact cities/camps

Considering the following possible actions at the time

1. Racial profiling: Foreingers and muslims

These are only background information to make an educated guess as what kind of events would transpire after the enforcement of martial law.




posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 03:50 AM
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the nature of racial profiling is to select by race, not nationality or religion. You could stop a born american citizin, but he looks foreign or 'non white to you' and maybe you could think he is muslim but the logic is flawed on that one...racism is racism, same as profiling...selecting people by color and facial charachterisics, not first by religion or nationality, those are the people you want to interrogate, but you are selecting them based on race which means you may be selecting natural born americans



posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 03:51 AM
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well your saying a mass law put in order which would be quite a hassel for the US goverment it would only last for a couple of motnhs most likley anyway and osama is dead most proabley



posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 03:55 AM
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Marshall law could only be a temporary thing, but it's the evil new system that is spawned out if it that is my concern.....sounds like a bad idea.



Originally posted by lepracornman
well your saying a mass law put in order which would be quite a hassel for the US goverment it would only last for a couple of motnhs most likley anyway and osama is dead most proabley



posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 04:05 AM
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I love your posts IndigoChild and admire your desire to inform and prepare.

I often find myself thinking the opposite of you, and I'm never sure if I'm naive or just enjoying some devil's advocate.


Here's a question for you - Is there any scenario you can imagine (nuke strikes in multiple cities, for example), where normal law and emergency response could break down nationwide, or atleast in several regions, where you would be in favor of temporary martial law? (ie, curfews, detaining large groups who break curfew, etc.?)

My thoughts on the questions you posed:

This would be a first time thing for everyone involved - the police, the citizens, FEMA, the military, etc. Mistakes are certain to be made, panic could be likely, people probably WILL be hurt, or even killed because they don't know/understand the sudden changes.

Keeping as many people inside, away from looters, away from emergency workers, away from potentially dangerous situations (radiation, chemicals, fires, etc.) isn't a terrible idea.

Having camps set up where large groups of people could be taken may be necessary. Prisons could have no power, could be destroyed, there could be riots, maybe mass injured could be taken to these previously arranged locations.

Courts wouldn't be functioning - maybe for weeks. There would be no bail, there would be no attorneys, no documents being typed up, etc..

OTOH, you could be right - it could be the plan all along for this to take place. It just seems you are prepared for the worst - which isn't a bad thing, mind you..


I think we'll just have to wait and see and... be prepared for the worst.



posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 04:35 AM
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I find your topic very interesting and worth of more than a momentary thought. It would be intersting to see if there are any directives/orders to NG and police units on how to enforce martial law (curfews, checkpoints, etc) and to the FBI and the NSA, since most of the coordination and investigation work would fall on their shoulders. Also, it would interesting to see how the situation at the borders would change: right now smugglers and illegal immigrants can get in and out more or less at their will. But what would happen in case of martial law? They would have to stop not only people from getting in but also from getting out. And there's the small "problem" of information. The mass media are easily controlled, but what about the millions of blogs, home pages and chat rooms? What about the millions of phones or CB radios? Would they use something akin to the "Great Firewall of China" (if you ask what it is, I can tell you that's the advanced software our Chinese "pals" use to control both which foreign sites can be accessed from mainland China and to check domestic forums, blogs and websites for "unwanted" words and phrases)?



posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 05:56 AM
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First of all your comparing us to Iraq - in Iraq they have daily bombings and killings. If we had that here I would accept the checkpoints until such time that they no longer occurred or at least became a rare occurrence. After that there would be no need for the checkpoints. In a free country eventually you must have free movement of people without interference. Though there may be times when you need to lock things down to get a handle on the situation like we see in Iraq.

Martial Law is appropriate for certain situations and I accept the fact that it's for the greater good of the population. Unlike the majority of the population I realize it may occur at any moment. I put up with the no-fly restrictions during 911 & if it happened again I would put up with it again. I also put up with checkpoints that targeted vehicals like the one I drive regularly coming to the airport to pick friends & family up. If that became the standard I would choose another vehical to drive.

If Martial Law included some check points going into & out of heavily populated areas, I would deal with it for a short period time - though if it became the standard I would either change my job or living location so I didn't have to deal with it on a daily basis. Controlled movements are for prison populations not free persons. Rather then spending my life in a prison like setting I would move somewhere else.

Those in heavily populated areas will be affected the most. In a major catastrophe there will not be enough shelter or food in heavily populated areas. To avoid civil unrest due to lack of resources they will round up the population in camps and those in camps may become sacrificial in order to allow those who are self-sufficient in the country, the wealthy elite & the prepared to survive.

I will never allow another to have complete control of me, thus under zero circumstance would I allow anyone to incarcerate me in a camp. Once you give up your freedom you're on a road in which there no turn offs, backups or lane changes - as far as you having a say in future events at that point it's over. To avoid having to kill persons to remain free I am prepared to relocate out of the danger zone at the drop of a hat. I suggest everyone should be ready - just like having an earthquake kit.




[edit on 10-12-2004 by outsider]



posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 08:06 AM
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i dont see why it is not OK to racially profile when you are in no way at all degrading them and only enquiring because of suspicion. do wat ya gotta do when the nation is in jeopardy, although when i look at the overall scope of the situation the problem stems from our own governments diabolical actions and policies. they are only protecting their assets by way of brute justification. when the measures of martial law are indeed imposed then that will be the time of hardship for us.


First of all your comparing us to Iraq


didnt the man say hypothetical?



I will never allow another to have complete control of me, thus under zero circumstance would I allow anyone to incarcerate me in a camp.


hey dooood tell it to the judge!









posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 08:40 AM
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Oh watch, you'll see..

A dirty nuke will hit some useless dying American city which suffers from crime (detroit). With national hysteria and fear the neo-cons will unleash NWO order and the dawn of a new opressed society will push forward. Sure America will be allowed to have its freedoms, just as long as the government can watch and authorize everthing along the way.

Remember, either you're with us or against us!



posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 09:53 AM
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Originally posted by 00PS
the nature of racial profiling is to select by race, not nationality or religion. You could stop a born american citizin, but he looks foreign or 'non white to you' and maybe you could think he is muslim but the logic is flawed on that one...racism is racism, same as profiling...selecting people by color and facial charachterisics, not first by religion or nationality, those are the people you want to interrogate, but you are selecting them based on race which means you may be selecting natural born americans


I was being politically correct by calling it racial profiling. However, yes, it is a form of racism.



posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 10:02 AM
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I will note that next time I see your name in the recent list...I think many people just pass my threads up because I often make statements people disagree with, but I think you have shown me that you truly like to converse with people with different opinions and not afraid to work out differences of opinions.....which all too often just leads to stupid arguements here at ats...

As we both agree it is a type of discrimination so to say...we must therefore accept it for what it is and then ask the second question, ok, in these circumstances should we discriminate and I think the answer is no. We need a better way to find our enemy wherever they are hiding. Tim McVeigh and others have shown us all too well that the face of the enemy is a thought in the minds of men not in their faces. So on this premise we must find better methods to find our enemies...what are they, lets chat about it and find out....



posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 10:23 AM
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Originally posted by quango
I love your posts IndigoChild and admire your desire to inform and prepare.


Thank you, my friend. I will continue to do this, knowing there is at least one person who is listening in.


Here's a question for you - Is there any scenario you can imagine (nuke strikes in multiple cities, for example), where normal law and emergency response could break down nationwide, or atleast in several regions, where you would be in favor of temporary martial law? (ie, curfews, detaining large groups who break curfew, etc.?)


In an ideal world, martial law in such an event, would be acceptable and necessary. However, as history has taught us, whenever a state is given absolute police powers, it has been abused. Further, the kind of government that is installed after martial law elapses, will be undesirable.

If I remember correctly, FEMA can elect a dictator, suspend the constitution and bill of rights. In other words, every man, woman and child will lose their freedom, and that has never been good, history can testify for this. If you have no freedom, you are at the mercy of the state. A wise man once said, if you trade in your freedom for security, you will lose both your freedom and security.

What does losing your freedom mean then? Are you willing to gamble it for the hope of security? Before you answer that, please look at the FEMA Executive Orders:

#10995 - Seizure of all communications media in the United States.
#10997 - Seizure of all electric power, fuels, and minerals, both public and private.
#10998 - Seizure of all food supplies and resources, public, and private, all farms and farm equipment.
#10999 - Seizure of all means of transportation, including personal cars, trucks or vehicles of any kind and total control over all highways, seaports and waterways.
#11000 - Seizure of all American population for work forces under federal supervision, including dividing families as necessary according to governmental plans.
#11001 - Seizure of all health, education and welfare facilities, both public and private.
#11002 - Empowers the Postmaster General to register all men, women and children in the U.S.
#11003 - Seizure of all airports and aircraft.
#11004 - Seizure of all housing and finance authorities, to establish Forced Relocation. Designates areas to be abandoned as "unsafe," establishes new locations for populations, relocates communications, builds new housing with public ('tax-payers') funds.
#11005 - Seizure of all railroads, inland waterways and storage facilities, public and private.
#11051 - Provides the Office of Emergency Planning complete authorisation to put the above orders into effect in times of increased international tension or economic or financial crisis.
#11490 - Combines Executive Orders #11001 to #11005 and #11051 into a single Executive Order.
#11921 - F.E.M.A. is authorised to develop plans control energy, prices and wages, credit and the money supply to U.S. banks in the event of a 'National Emergency.' Congress may not review a President's decision to enforce a 'National Emergency' for six months.
#12656 - The National Security Council given authority to determine requisite emergency powers (increased domestic surveillance, isolation of communites, restriction of movement for groups and individuals in the USA, control of airspace, use of the national guard to enforce laws and seal borders).
#12919 - Signed June 3, 1994, by President Clinton. "National Defense Industrial Resources Preparedness" delegates authorities, responsibilities and allocations of F.E.M.A.'s Executive Orders for the confiscation of ALL PROPERTY from the American people, and their re-location and assignment to 'labor' camps. This Executive Order also supersedes or revokes eleven (11) previous Executive Orders [from 1939 through 1991] and amends Executive Order #10789 and #11790. The declaration of a 'National Emergency' by the President may immediately lead to the implementation of all or part of these provisions and if he so desires he may implement martial law, suspend the Constitution, nulify habeas corpus and all other personal liberties and rights.

Knowing this is what is planned for Martial Law(almost reads like the blueprint of Nazi Germany) would you still want to take the gamble?

Yes, I agree with a lot of things you said could happen, and I definitely agree "expect the worst" but I can't think of anymore worse than the above itself. So, I say, expect the expected.

[edit on 10-12-2004 by Indigo_Child]



posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 10:38 AM
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Tim McVeigh and others have shown us all too well that the face of the enemy is a thought in the minds of men not in their faces.


ive heard of extensive arguments claiming that the oklahoma bomb was a federal job. semsmograph and physics comparisons disregard the main report. the amount of pressure caused by fertilizer bomb is not capable of inflicting that much damage. also the FBI like many other times while high supsicions are arroused seized many of the video footage of the bombing, from public eye so we can never see them.

www.serendipity.li...


We reported in Freedom Network News at the time that seismograph readouts at the University of Oklahoma indicated more than one blast impulse. Independent ordnance experts, including a Navy Commander, unanimously agreed that a car-bomb with low intensity fertilizer explosives could not have inflicted such extensive damage to the building and that it was highly likely that high-intensity explosives had been wired directly to the columns. Our suspicion then as now is that it was an "inside job." But by whom is the mystery. Strategic Investment reports that the multiple bombings had a Middle Eastern "signature." Others find the whole business to be extremely fishy because of the fact that no ATF or FBI agents were in their offices at the time of the blast [about 9:05 a.m.] and that evidence pertaining to both Waco and Mena had been stored there.


www.apfn.org...

www.carpenoctem.tv...

plenty of info in there truth be told i didnt read it all, yet i am still thuroughly conviced about this. a mandate to direct more fund into the security aspect of our society, and to instill fear into the general publics eye, these things always seem to convienently tie into one another. martial law would be the final step as a last resort to maintain their economic and strategic choke hold on the imperative assets world wide. when most of US that is those inside their thought bubbles actually wake up and start giving a damn about the diabolic denomination that is our government and their greedy hidin agenda they have planned then the true uprising will begin, the line will be drawn, and we will systematically pull the rug out from under those dastardly hoodwinks. the time is drawing near, the awakening!


[edit on 10-12-2004 by sturod84]



posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 12:13 PM
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Originally posted by 00PS
I will note that next time I see your name in the recent list...I think many people just pass my threads up because I often make statements people disagree with, but I think you have shown me that you truly like to converse with people with different opinions and not afraid to work out differences of opinions.....which all too often just leads to stupid arguements here at ats...


Yes, because it causes emotions to be stirred, and when an argument becomes emotional, it comprises rationality, and before you know it, becomes stupid. To avoid the stupidity, I have decided to be politically correct, otherwise it's blatantly obvious racial profiling is racism. However, that does not mean that I conform to the popualr opinion, even if that comes at the expense of alination. Better being right, than sharing a delusion.


So on this premise we must find better methods to find our enemies...what are they, lets chat about it and find out....


Our enemy is the state, and is staring us right in the face. What we need to do is find better methods to defeat it. Unfortunately, it cannot be defeated. This was learnt back in 1999 in the WTO Seattle riots, some 50,000 people were brutally attacked and resistance was quelled for good. Now, even a small-scale protest can be tried as a domestic terrorism.

[edit on 10-12-2004 by Indigo_Child]



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