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Ok.. Minumum wage... Immagration

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posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 01:36 PM
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...
edit on 6-11-2014 by 2gd2btru because: delete




posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 01:36 PM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I agree, but you must also agree that we cannot, as a nation, afford to add so many more workers to an already overloaded work force.

I would rather, as an American, see the jobs go to Americans, rather than see healthy Americans collecting welfare while we ship people in from overseas to work the jobs and support the unemployed. This is not good for any of us.

Once it was said "Let them eat cake" I say... let them work jobs! It is better to have self sufficiency, than to be a dependent upon another. It is better for the souls of men, and we would begin to see pride once more in what we do, as Americans.



posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 01:37 PM
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originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

Would this trial period be a trial period paid at his/her desired wage?


Probably not but I would retro pay the increase if they were retained. I typically do not need much time to make a determination on someone's drive, skill or capacity. Two weeks would most likely be enough. It may even be sooner.



posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 01:40 PM
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originally posted by: OpinionatedB

I agree, but you must also agree that we cannot, as a nation, afford to add so many more workers to an already overloaded work force.

I would rather, as an American, see the jobs go to Americans, rather than see healthy Americans collecting welfare while we ship people in from overseas to work the jobs and support the unemployed. This is not good for any of us.


That was the same paradigm that caused our ancestors to say, 'Those damn potato eaters are gonna take our jobs.'

The country was not left destitute by their, and other ethnicities arrival.

A perfect example is the fear, by white plantation owners, that the FREE (not underpaid, FREE) labor provided by slaves would bankrupt the South once it was eliminated.



posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 01:41 PM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Alive and well in what regard? I agree there are still a good many manufacturing jobs available in the U.S., but I've seen the numbers declining in recent history. If it's alive and well, then it's got a cough.

Me, I'm an ex-pat so I really have no right to be talking about bringing jobs to the U.S. when I left there for a better opportunity overseas. You probably know much better than I can, anyway. I'm no business owner, I'm just a middle income person who gets by on what my employer pays me.

I just have to say it seems inhuman to pay someone below a living wage. If I were doing that, I dunno how well I'd sleep. Money changes people though, I suppose were I a successful businessman/woman like yourself, I'd sleep pretty well knowing I've got piles of money.



posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 01:42 PM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Yet what you are talking about doing, is keeping the spirit of Americans alive through continued immigration. Now... the problem here that I see, is that the spirit and pride that Americans once had in what the produced... went into a serious decline at the same time that welfare was instituted as a matter of public policy.

Loose the one which caused the decline of pride, and you gain back what you lost, that American spirit of doing something better than anyone else... and rising above ones "station" in life.



posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 01:44 PM
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originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

Alive and well in what regard? I agree there are still a good many manufacturing jobs available in the U.S., but I've seen the numbers declining in recent history. If it's alive and well, then it's got a cough.


Since 1975 manufacturing output has doubled and American workers are three times a efficient as they were then.


I just have to say it seems inhuman to pay someone below a living wage. If I were doing that, I dunno how well I'd sleep. Money changes people though, I suppose were I a successful businessman/woman like yourself, I'd sleep pretty well knowing I've got piles of money.


If they person says, 'I can live on that', then how is not a living wage?



posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 01:45 PM
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a reply to: OpinionatedB

That is why I included entitlement and societal program reform in my laundry list above.



posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 01:47 PM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

That again brings up the argument of those who don't KNOW what a living wage is. You know, being a successful, intelligent person what a living wage would be in a free market. Would you pay below that if you were given the opportunity?
edit on 6-11-2014 by ScientificRailgun because: I seriously can't grammar sometimes.



posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 01:48 PM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Yet.. the situation we face today is not the same situation they faced back then. Businesses were not going overseas to find cheaper labor. Heck today we have lost more manufacturing jobs, and gained none in the process. We don't even make Levi's anymore.

The more the businesses go overseas to find cheaper labor, the less jobs there are right here in America to go around.

I would agree with you if we weren't loosing so much of our own industry, but we are loosing too much, and nothing is taking its place to compensate for the loss.



posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 01:49 PM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Manufacturing output has doubled with technological advances. Not because more jobs have been added.



posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 01:49 PM
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a reply to: ScientificRailgun

If a person is out looking for employment and they are unable to calculate what their housing, food, transportation and clothing costs may be then I honestly do not know what you expect other people to be doing about it.



posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 01:51 PM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

lol....



posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 01:55 PM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

That is easily calculated in a free market, though. Like everything else, it has a set number. Based on geography, housing costs, produce and animal protein costs, etc you can easily calculate what a living wage would be for a given area. You would know this, where someone else might not.

Would you use that information and take advantage of someone based on their inability to make those calculations? Sure, it's not difficult for someone like you, or even an average person like myself to make those calculations. But someone else may not have the mental capacity to do that math. That's where a minimum wage comes into effect. It prevents the "haves" from taking advantage of "have nots". Although that very thing is happening in scores pretty much everywhere, a minimum wage helps prevent at least SOME of that.



posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 01:56 PM
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originally posted by: OpinionatedB

Manufacturing output has doubled with technological advances. Not because more jobs have been added.


Which has been the case since the dawn of the Industrial Revolution.

I watch a CNC operator crank out complex parts in minutes when it would have taken him hours to do 30 years ago and days 150 years ago.

The transition from unskilled to skilled laborer makes us more and more competitive and the lowering costs of goods enables new concepts or ideas to become fiscally feasible thereby opening newer avenues of production. It is a self-sustaining paradigm.



posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 02:01 PM
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a reply to: ScientificRailgun

You, frankly, are talking about a miniscule portion of the work force that would not be able to add four or five sums to get a wage requirement approximation and this really results in arguementum ad absurdum. And what you are really doing, by forcing some sort of minimum, is compensating them for being ineffective employees at the same rate as the ones who were actually effective.



posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 02:03 PM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I really do worry that it is not self sustaining. I haven't seen it sustain itself in any meaningful way when translated to what I see around me.

Perhaps it is because of all the unemployed. I do know that the whole survival of the fittest meant that many who are surviving today, would never have made it in the past. It makes me wonder sometimes, if some of our policies have been more detrimental to society as a whole than we could have previously imagined.



posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 02:04 PM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus




It is a self-sustaining paradigm.


Now that is something I can completely agree with you on. Part of the loss of traditional manufacturing jobs is due to an increase of technology. That technology opens avenues for business elsewhere. Part of the problem in my (and perhaps others) eyes is that with the slow death of the "unskilled" laborer, it becomes necessary to take part in the post-secondary education system to gain skills necessary to be competitive in the market. And quite frankly, the U.S. college system is totally broken at the moment.



posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 02:07 PM
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The question then becomes "What do we do with people who simply aren't cut out for a college-level education, or even a trade-level education", such as nursing or a previous example of CNC machining? There's a large percentage of humanity that currently, simply aren't capable of getting the skills needed to be "successful" in the workforce. What do we do with those people?



posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 02:11 PM
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a reply to: ScientificRailgun
a reply to: OpinionatedB

I am going to address both of you at the same time since I feel my answer covers both your posts.

The main issue I see is the 'everyone should go to college' mentality we have developed over the past few decades. College is a business, of course they want everyone to go and with the cheap money we have these days, EVERYONE can go.

I walk into manufacturing plant after plant in my territories who seem to be 'recycling' the same workers (for lack of a better term). There is a shortage of skilled factory workers available due to people thinking that 'factory work' is somehow beneath them when in fact, it is quite the opposite. These workers are basically recruited from Company X to Company Y and back again. Many of the people I meet work in climate controlled environments, on new machinery in clean shops and are getting well above the median salary for their very critical work.

We need to encourage more of the people who really are not suited for college, and will never get a position utilizing the degree they obtained, and steer them towards trade schools or apprenticeships.




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