Ok.. Minumum wage... Immagration

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

what do you do when you have a stellar employee who won't negotiate?

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: Krakatoa

Right we get that but how do you stop people from paying their workers 1$ a day like in other countries that don't have it?

I swear to god no one read my entire OP so far.

Ok, so, agreeing upon the economics of it, I can offer a solution. Once solution is to make it more expensive to offshore jobs to countries that pay less than our wages. That will (hopefully) make it less of an incentive to move the jobs away, keeping them here, and employing local talent that are currently unemployed. We are experiencing what England experienced when this country was where the cheapest labor was located (think textile industry). If it is more expensive to have someone in country X build your "item" and then ship it here (which includes the shipping costs)....then from a business perspective it is not cost effective to move that job anymore.

This could be raising tariffs or taxes on the business to tax incentives (breaks) for each local employee hired within the country.

originally posted by: onequestion

I can take some blame for that for not clearly articulating my point but you didn't ask either did you?

Quite frankly I do not understand the premise of your Original Post if it was not revolving around requiring a minimum wage due to immigration.

I made it clear that I do not support a minimum wage and am pro-immigration.

a reply to: Krakatoa

It's a very concise breakdown of minimum wage ripple effects, but it's been my experience that when minimum wage increase a dollar, those making at least 2x the minimum see a net increase of approximately 25 cents.

Just my own personal experience.

a reply to: Krakatoa

No one wants to hear about how business works. They just want to complain about the Man. You know, the one who is the only reason they have a job in the first place--just to exploit them.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

It's easy to see why, after talking to you, that support these two stances. Without a minimum wage, and with tons of immigrants flowing in, you're in the best possible position to pay the least for workers.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I'm fishing for solutions because at present we don't have any real viable options.

minumum wage isn't going to work because it's going to put small businesses out of business. A lot of them.

On the other hand we have an I creasing labor force for all jobs driving the labor costs down, for everything across the board and it's due to global integration.

So what do we do?

originally posted by: onequestion

what do you do when you have a stellar employee who won't negotiate?

Are you hypothetically discussing prior to employment or after they have been employed?

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Both.

a reply to: onequestion

I am anti-immigration. We have too many mouths to feed already, and not enough jobs to go around. Personally I propose doing away with welfare, and closing the borders to our country.

Both together would be a viable solution to the problems we face as a nation.

I think at best welfare should have some serious limitations to it, and should go back to the charitability of people as a whole, and not a job of government.

a reply to: onequestion

The "correct" path with pre-employment is to show that person the door, and find someone with a similar skillset who WILL negotiate.

Post-employment would be to offer what you believe is fair based on the free market, and if they refuse said offer, promote them to "valued customer"

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

It's easy to see why, after talking to you, that support these two stances. Without a minimum wage, and with tons of immigrants flowing in, you're in the best possible position to pay the least for workers.

As long as they are legal immigrants it benefits all of us.

Illegal immigrants, with their uncertain future here, tend to send the majority of the income, after satisfying fixed charges, back to their home countries. People here legally will spend that money in the community and help enrich it financially. The global market is a zero sum game, every dollar not spent here is most assuredly spent somewhere else.

Goods and services that are cheaper to provide or manufacture here prevent those from being outsourced or eliminated due to rising costs.

a reply to: onequestion

I see at least 3 options here fore the employer:

1. If this "stellar employee" is someone the business cannot do without, then you may need to make a hard decision to let someone else go to compensate for the demand.

2. Let the "stellar employee" leave/not-hire them and find someone that has the most matching skills that will accept that position.

3. Pay the "stellar employee" his demanded wage, and then raise the prices of your goods/services to accommodate that rise in cost.

If the business "eats" that cost, then it has the potential to make the business less competitive in the market. With market fluctuations being as they are, and no guarantee your product is needed, you will be out of business sooner the more cost the business "eats".

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

No... not necessarily. I have seen legal immigrants sleep 25-30 people to a 2 bedroom apartment, sleeping in shifts to make it all work, in order to send money back home, and bring more people over.

Just because they are legal does not mean they will spend it in our communities. I have seen the opposite be more true.

originally posted by: onequestion

I'm fishing for solutions because at present we don't have any real viable options.

minumum wage isn't going to work because it's going to put small businesses out of business. A lot of them.

On the other hand we have an I creasing labor force for all jobs driving the labor costs down, for everything across the board and it's due to global integration.

So what do we do?

Where to start?

We need a easier way for people to emigrate here legally. Allow them to work at a wage that is best suited to their needs. Eliminate crony capitalism. Lessen government restrictions. Modify the tax code for both citizens and businesses to make it more equitable and simple. Overhaul our entitlement programs to make them fiscally sound for the future. Eliminate government waste and spending. Eliminate redundant agencies at the Federal level and permit the States to govern themselves. Adhere to the Constitution.

I could probably go one for much longer......

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I see all of your points, but the problem is that BECAUSE the global market is a zero sum market, the manufacturing jobs inevitably go elsewhere, primarly to developing nations, because the cost of living is far lower there. No amount of immigration will bring factories back to the U.S., and if it does, it's because the U.S. has been reduced to "developing nation" status, so it's economical to manufacture here where wages are the lowest.

a reply to: onequestion

For a prospective employee and I would be open to giving them a trial period to prove they are truly 'exceptional'.

For those with a proven track record I would negotiate an increase in compensation based on performance.

originally posted by: OpinionatedB
No... not necessarily. I have seen legal immigrants sleep 25-30 people to a 2 bedroom apartment, sleeping in shifts to make it all work, in order to send money back home, and bring more people over.

And if the goal is to bring their relatives here legally then it is a temporary shift of capital.

Just because they are legal does not mean they will spend it in our communities. I have seen the opposite be more true.

Agreed, but the paradigm if true in most cases. If your family is here why would you send your money elsewhere?

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Would this trial period be a trial period paid at his/her desired wage?

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
I see all of your points, but the problem is that BECAUSE the global market is a zero sum market, the manufacturing jobs inevitably go elsewhere, primarly to developing nations, because the cost of living is far lower there. No amount of immigration will bring factories back to the U.S., and if it does, it's because the U.S. has been reduced to "developing nation" status, so it's economical to manufacture here where wages are the lowest.

That is patently untrue. I am in industrial sales and United States manufacturing is alive in well. This is mainly due to the constant influx on new talent and determination.

We are in jeopardy of losing that competitive edge if we do not attract the people that want to come here and make it easy for them to do so.

Think of all the 'destitute' immigrants in American history who made something of themselves by hard work and creating a new market. Now think of all those you have not heard about who, while not the Andrew Carnegie's of the world, were successful in their own right and improved their lot in life.