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What Exactly Did Jesus Mean When He Used The Term "Generation" ?

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posted on Nov, 5 2014 @ 11:44 PM
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PLEASE NOTE, I beg my fellow ATS members do not come in here and say it doesn't matter it's all a fairy tale the bible is bogus. I have decided I am going to be using the alert button on all trolling off topic comments on this thread, sort of an experiment to see if we can get back to some serious discussions in this forum without all the clutter meant for other thread topics and forums. See if the MODS will allow a good old fashioned BTS type thread from the old days. I am counting on you guys to make it happen.


Now onto the topic at hand.
This is a question if we knew the exact answer to we would much further along in understanding the timeline to the end times.
So is a worthy discussion amongst Christians anyways. The scripture is this.

Matthew 24:34 GOD'S WORD® Translation


"I can guarantee this truth: This generation will not disappear until all these things take place.

Another version Amplified Bible, it actually does try to define it.

Truly I tell you, this generation (the whole multitude of people living at the same time, in a definite, given period) will not pass away till all these things taken together take place.

And another

Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things happen.


So what exactly did Jesus mean by the term "generation" because he is saying that generation would be alive to see both the beginning and end of the signs. First it is impossible to define generation in absolute terms because it is used so much in a cultural aspect, for example look at this Modern Generations So who defines what a generation is very subjective and it can change too. Here is the dictionary definition of generation

Also consider this lets say we talk about the generation that saw the original Star Wars in the movie theaters in 1977, you could have been 4, 44 or 84 but you are still part of that generation. The oldest of that "generation" has already died but the 4 year olds are now in there forties and until they die they are still part of that generation, so you have an older and younger element to the entire generation. It is clear to me Jesus meant more than the average lifespan of a human when he said "Generation".

Bottom line we don't know exactly what he meant, but we do know it is longer than what our current culture understands a generation to be today, and longer than the numerical dictionary definition. Because all the signs listed previously in Matthew would take time to develop and they are still being seen by the grandchildren of those that were alive to see them start if we use the early 20th century with WW1 and the Spanish flu as a starting point.




edit on 5-11-2014 by Blue_Jay33 because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 5 2014 @ 11:54 PM
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a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Well, 2000 some odd years later we're still talking about the people of that time...

guess HE was right... as usual




posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 12:02 AM
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a reply to: Blue_Jay33

These are the types of passages that need to be studied very deeply.. I cannot give you an answer because I need to dig into it a bit more also.



posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 12:23 AM
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...that which has been 'generated', will not pass till all happenings (brought about by the generated) occur...at which point, every possible permutation and combination of what could occur, has happened...and the vessels, the furniture...the stage...become redundant.

New forms of cosmic cgi are always being prepared in many other locations, readying the conditions necessary for 'insertion', immersion...
Through little, splintered, holo-type matrices experiencing 'virtually' the vessel, furniture and stage - delight is found in experiencing what you created...

Where is God?

Å99



posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 12:24 AM
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a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Perhaps he means the generation after the flood, us. Maybe the people who belong to this age. I think we're in the second last age. the Age of the Church

(Holy Spirit filled Christians are the church: Not some fancy palace like the Vatican nor a religious institute with pastors in Mercedes Benz asking for people to be generous to 'God')

But truly I don't know how long this generation is. I guess it's safe to say around 2000 years about now.



posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 12:32 AM
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You cannot do this, it is a basic error that many make.

The word 'Generation' does not and never has been in the Bible.

The bible is written in ancient Hebrew.

Find the Hebrew term that this word was taken from, find when it was written and then and only then can your try and determine what the word used meant in that era and therefore what the entire passage means.

To try and work out the bible at this level from a translated copy is simply and logically impossible.

P



posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 12:46 AM
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Take what he was saying previously and use it all in context.


30 “Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky. All the people on earth will cry in agony when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds in the sky with power and great glory. 31 He will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and from every direction under the sky, they will gather those whom God has chosen.


That is the generation he is talking about, when those things happen, it will culminate during their lifetimes.



posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 01:08 AM
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a reply to: pheonix358


"You cannot do this, it is a basic error that many make.

The word 'Generation' does not and never has been in the Bible.

The bible is written in ancient Hebrew."


I am sorry my brother, but you have made an error. The Old Testament was written in Hebrew. The majority of linguistic experts, academics, researchers, and scholars agree that the New Testament was written in Koine Greek.

The Greek word, γενεὰ (genea), translated as "generation," is indeed found in the oldest manuscripts of Matthew.



posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 01:14 AM
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a reply to: Blue_Jay33
I remember being told by Jehovah's Witnesses a few decades back that it meant "within a generation of 1914".
That would make it exactly 100 years this year. Does that get them excited? Is that the longest it could go?
At what point does "within a generation of 1914" get abandoned as an interpretation?



posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 01:15 AM
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a reply to: Sahabi

He still had a point. We should return the original writings for the best translation.

P.S I don't think Phoenix is a brother in Christ, from what I've seen he's a resident anti-Christ.


Though he does make some good posts.



posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 01:28 AM
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a reply to: Sahabi




The Greek word, γενεὰ (genea), translated as "generation," is indeed found in the oldest manuscripts of Matthew.


Yea, well, it changed over time. Lol

Put 'γενεὰ' into google translate, select greek to english and it translates to 'whisker'.




The majority of linguistic experts, academics, researchers, and scholars agree that the New Testament was written in Koine Greek.


I have to ask, what do the minority say. Considering that the 'Majority' may have axes to grind or be in the pay of the Roman church, I have to ask for your source and pics.

The New Testament is simply a collection of books. Now you want me to believe that all of these authors, some of whom were disciples all wrote in one particular version of Greek. Why would they do this.

That the first version of the Bible as a whole may have been written in Greek is sort of possible but not likely since Rome had taken it as their religion.

Translation errors are rife and this thread just emphasis the problems encountered when going from an ancient text to a modern language.

You are so sure of these 'majority of experts' but the phrase itself indicates clearly that we actually don't know.

P



posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 01:29 AM
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a reply to: Emerald53




P.S I don't think Phoenix is a brother in Christ, from what I've seen he's a resident anti-Christ.


You would be wrong!

Thanks for the compliment BTW


P



posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 01:36 AM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: Blue_Jay33
I remember being told by Jehovah's Witnesses a few decades back that it meant "within a generation of 1914".
That would make it exactly 100 years this year. Does that get them excited? Is that the longest it could go?
At what point does "within a generation of 1914" get abandoned as an interpretation?



Any date that gets floated is to be disregarded according to Mark 13:32


But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.


Pretty straight forward, it is not found anywhere in prophesy, for then that prophet would have known.



posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 01:41 AM
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Doing some serious but quick research.


'γενεὰ' can translate to 'whisker' , 'generation' and ..... wait for it, 'race'

I would suggest that the following would make sense

"I can guarantee this truth: This race will not disappear until all these things take place."

Now, are we talking about the race of man, the race of Jews or some other race.

And this demonstrates clearly why working on what the bible really says is so difficult and full of 'the interpretation I want'.

P


edit on 6/11/2014 by pheonix358 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 02:02 AM
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Good responses. On the language issue this link is good
Generation In Greek

Furthermore I think it is well known about the duel fulfillment of prophesy for the 1st century leading to the destruction of the temple as the last days of the Jewish system with the temple getting burned by the Romans in 70 AD, and then the extension into basically the 20th/21 century as the secondary fulfillment. The gap in between these times periods is not the generation. There are times Jesus refers to a "generation" usually not in a positive or flattering way, it seems from context he is referring to only the generation of Jews in his locality at that time, many of these would live to see the Jewish system come to an end.



posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 02:04 AM
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a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Although the Gospel of Matthew is written in Greek, we will highlight the Hebrew word for "Generation," for the sake of discussion.

דּוֹר (Dor): "Generation"

According to Strong's Concordance of the "New American Standard Bible," דּוֹר is translated as;

age-old, all generations, another, dwelling, every generation, forever, generation, generations, kind, many generations, nor, time.

 


Back to Matthew's use of the Greek, γενεά, it is used 4 times prior to the Matthew 24:34 usage in question by the OP.

- Matthew 12:39, "wicked and adulterous γενεά"

- Matthew 12:45, "wicked γενεά"

- Matthew 16:4, "wicked and adulterous γενεά"

- Matthew 17:17, "unbelieving and perverse γενεά"

 


As Strong's Concordance translates, "generation" and "kind," for the Hebrew דּוֹר, it may be quite possible that γενεά, in Matthew 24:34 is directly related to the 4 previous uses of γενεά.

Meaning that, "this generation," is the, "kind of generation," of the wicked, adulterous, unbelieving, and perverse. Basically saying, mankind is in moral corruption and will not transcend this corruption until, "all these things have happened."

Wickedness, adultery, disbelief, and perversion will not cease until all has been fulfilled.



posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 02:09 AM
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a reply to: Emerald53


"P.S I don't think Phoenix is a brother in Christ, from what I've seen he's a resident anti-Christ."


All are dear brothers and sisters to me, regardless of religion, belief, ethnicity, nationality, or lineage. All of existence is my family.

Peace.



posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 02:24 AM
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a reply to: pheonix358


"I have to ask, what do the minority say. Considering that the 'Majority' may have axes to grind or be in the pay of the Roman church, I have to ask for your source and pics."


The minority says that some dialects of Aramaic or Hebrew may have been used. My "source and pics" are that the oldest known existent Gospels of Matthew are composed of Greek.



posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 02:41 AM
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a reply to: Sahabi




oldest known existent Gospels of Matthew are composed of Greek.


Matthew was not Greek and it is unlikely he wrote in the Greek Language, so once again we come up with the need to translate. Now, looking at the Catholic bible, we have a series of translations from whatever language Matthew wrote in ... to Ancient Greek .... to a more modern Greek ..... to Latin ..... and thence to Old English ...... and eventually to the Modern English that we are discussing.

That is an an awful lot of translating let alone the fact that many of those languages were no longer in use ...... it is a mire. Add to this, the fact that we know some of the terms were deliberately altered to suit someones desires and you have to ask yourself some really hard questions.

The word Baptism was created during the translation of the King James Bible so as to not offend said King. Many of these translation whoopsies benefited those doing or overseeing the translation. Add in the number of times the bible has been altered over time and you get an idea of the problems.

P



posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 03:01 AM
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a reply to: pheonix358


Matthew was not Greek and it is unlikely he wrote in the Greek Language


To be fair, the Gospels bearing the names of disciples are not guaranteed to have been composed by the attributed disciple. Even if Matthew was a Hebrew-Israelite, the gospel attributed to him was written during the end of the first century, and shows clear indications of being copied and/or referenced from multiple sources. This may very well support your Hebrew/Aramaic insistence, however, we only have what we have; a Greek Gospel of Matthew.

I'm not an adherent of any religion, so the fallibility prospect doesn't bother me very much. I am just a spiritual person who enjoys the study and discussion of classic literature pertaining to religion and philosophy.



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