To all the atheists out there

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The interesting thing is how everyone takes issue.

The word 'believe' actually has several implied questions beyond the basic existence quesion.

1. Do you believe God exists?

2. Do you have faith in God's competence?

3. Do you have faith that God has your best interests at heart?

4. Do you think God's use of you in his/its greater vision is acceptable reason to surrender yourself to it.

My existence is defined by some 'separateness' quality from the Universe.
I am built out of it, yet conceive [perhaps falsely] that I am in some way indepenent from it.

In so far as I exist, God can not be all places, because he/it is not where i am. Therefore my existence and an omnipotent God's existence are antithetical.

So the question becomes not does God exist, but do I desire to exist.

I do desire to exist.
That is all I need to know.

Shalom.
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Originally posted by shmick25
1. We found the evidence that the world was created by a big bang

3. God does exist, there is an afterlife.

Why do big bangs and a lack of God eliminate the potential for an afterlife?

I have a theory that would make everyone happy!
The universe IS God! That way, both the universe and God could always have existed, with God/Universe big banging himself every few gazillion years

Originally posted by shmick25
For the person that said 'Energy created the Big Bang' Where did the energy come from? Energy is still 'something' that had to have been created by 'something else'.

And then there is the 'lucka band' theory where the universe is on a repeat loop of expoding then imploding. Also.. it's not inconcievable that an explosion on such a scale would destroy time itself. What I'm trying to work out is the actual 'size' of the universe and what is not 'outside' it.. time cannot exist without space so nothing can exist before the creation of the universe [assuming it has a starting point].. so it seems kind of silly to me to think that a sentient being could.

Originally posted by shmick25
For the person that said 'Energy created the Big Bang' Where did the energy come from? Energy is still 'something' that had to have been created by 'something else'.

One of the current leading theories that address this issue is that the "big bang" is the result of, for lack of a better term, higher dimensional "curtains" that collided. It's posited that one of the higher dimensions (physical, not spiritual) is best represented in a 3d manner, as a series of sheets or curtains that drift. Our universe is being created at a point where two of these sheets have touched.

Now, as to whether this is valid or just a WAG, I'm not the person to tell you. I've tried looking at the math, but the math used in the postulation is as far beyond basic calculus as quantum physics is beyond Newton's theories. If there is someone reading this thread who can translate "�ber-math-geek" into simple math-geek, or even closer to standard English, I'd very much appreciate it.

Originally posted by Whiskey Jack
One of the current leading theories that address this issue is that the "big bang" is the result of, for lack of a better term, higher dimensional "curtains" that collided.

But doesn't that suggest that something existed previously? Of course it's possible our universe is just part of something else more complex/different.. and dimensions may not have the same time line.. which could make something always constant so long as there is a connection.

Our universe is being created at a point where two of these sheets have touched.

Is that the same princible as when clouds colide and create lightening?
The big bang theory makes sense to me.. black holes may also be a cause. I don't know what happens to one if it takes in too much matter. The old theory of the big bang was that the centre of whatever it was became too condenced. Is it possible that the centre of the universe was an exlpoded black hole? Our galaxy revolves around one.. the pattern may follow through on a larger scale.

The biggest trouble with that theory, at least for the layperson, is that while we have the math to postulate and describe it, we don't have the physical technology to test it in any easily accepted way. Until we can do that, it's very easy for someone without a firm grounding (and I mean firm in the way diamonds are firm) in math to dismiss it.

Originally posted by Croat56
Universe had to be created because it is not divine like God.

Divine.??.....not sure that explains where God came from. In fact I am unsure as to what you reckon you can prove on this thread. You can no more prove the existence of God than I can prove the existence of the 9 foot green penguin sitting on my desk right now.

Its all a matter of BLIND FAITH.

Okay you guys out there who are like why do you listen to the bible its crap, well alot of the stories in the bible are just that stories. Its the message that matters not the story. Im pretty sure there wasnt an adam and eve, but its the message we should look at no the actual story. Its just like the boy who cried wolf, we know this story was made up but its the moral that matters.

Now dont you misunderstand either while some stories in the bible arent true, the major ones are like jesus and moses.

The "Lord of the Rings" was a better book, it just seems a little more believable.