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I Awoke To A Red Map

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posted on Nov, 5 2014 @ 12:29 PM
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originally posted by: tavi45
a reply to: StarGazer77

So you found another thread to spread blatant ignorance in. I'll repeat again. The Democrats of the civil war era have no connection to today's Democrats except the name.


Again,

Dark side of the DNC= "Parties have changed"

No evidence of a party switch-a-roo = "Both parties suck"

At some point this will start to make sense
edit on 5-11-2014 by StarGazer77 because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 5 2014 @ 12:33 PM
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originally posted by: tavi45
a reply to: StarGazer77

So you found another thread to spread blatant ignorance in. I'll repeat again. The Democrats of the civil war era have no connection to today's Democrats except the name.


If you repeat the same lie enough times maybe other people will start to believe you. Your opinion isn't fact and since Lincoln isn't around to answer all you are doing is speculating. Hardly a position of strength enough to call a fellow ATS member ignorant.



posted on Nov, 5 2014 @ 12:42 PM
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a reply to: Hefficide

As was said many times John, no matter what happens someone will be upset



posted on Nov, 5 2014 @ 12:50 PM
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originally posted by: Hefficide
a reply to: TinfoilTP

Then why is there this?



Really?
You are going to say that list of 90% gov appointments is the great debating body of the US Senate?
Reid and Obama shut it down to be nothing more than a rubber stamp station for O's appointees or the tinker toy of Liberal whackos.

I like this doozey, Al Frankin's stealing money from the 1990 Child Care Act to give to the Indians.


On the Amendment S.Amdt. 2822: Franken Amdt. No. 2822; To reserve not less than 2 percent of the amount appropriated under the Child Care and Development Block Grant Act of 1990 in each fiscal year for payments to Indian tribes and tribal organizations.


High priority stuff man, you must be proud.



posted on Nov, 5 2014 @ 12:55 PM
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a reply to: Metallicus

Read up.

www.deathandtaxesmag.com...

I've already linked it to StarGazer in another thread. He/she is the one using opinion over fact.
edit on 5-11-2014 by tavi45 because: added an extra paragraph



posted on Nov, 5 2014 @ 12:58 PM
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a reply to: TinfoilTP

You alluded that the Senate has done nothing for two years. I disproved your statement. The rest is deflection and semantic. I could spend hours finding all of the things that the House shot down just to shoot it down.

Hilarious, the party of "No" blaming the other party because, well, because the party of No said "No" a lot.

You couldn't make this stuff up.



posted on Nov, 5 2014 @ 01:03 PM
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a reply to: Hefficide

Well, you can go to times when the Republicans have a majority and find plenty of instances where the Democrats have played the party of "No" too. But it seems at times like that, they are the loyal opposition and simply being patriotic.



Of course, it also seems that when it comes to how we disagree, it gets harder and harder to really compromise as there are many positions that are diametrically opposed.

Sometimes, I think we need to split the two coasts off from the rest of the nation and let them go their blue state way while the rest of us go ours. Maybe we can pow-wow then in about 50 years and see which side has the best results.



posted on Nov, 5 2014 @ 01:08 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Hefficide


Sometimes, I think we need to split the two coasts off from the rest of the nation and let them go their blue state way while the rest of us go ours. Maybe we can pow-wow then in about 50 years and see which side has the best results.


Agreed.

And our side will be the side with the 2nd Amendment



posted on Nov, 5 2014 @ 01:13 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

Don't misunderstand - at this point I think both parties are as corrupt as the other and they are all controlled by the same interests - the Lobbyists and special interests.

The differences in approach are very slight. I tend to like "Blue" at this point because they give a smidge more of a concern to the very poor and disenfranchised. Though, over the past six years this has proven not to be the case this time around. After all, food stamps were cut under Obama - though not many conservatives will "give it up" to him for that.

I tend to have the politics of my grandfather, born in the late 1880's and who went through the sort of nightmares we are headed for. My father, born in 1930 had the opposite politics - as he was too young to recall the depression but did recall the "glory" of the fifties.

From all my grandfather taught and told me, before he passed on... Well history repeats itself and if he were alive today I am positive he'd be saying "Deja-vu".

We are headed for rough, rough times - and, just like before - it's all political theater. We're going into a dark period and it'll take another FDR, in ten or twenty years, to sort it all out.



posted on Nov, 5 2014 @ 01:20 PM
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a reply to: StarGazer77

There's another example. I consider myself liberal. I also happen to be very pro Second Amendment ( Pro the entire Bill of Rights for that matter ) and own firearms.

While I agree that there needs to be a discussion on just how much firepower should be legal ( We don't need Patriot Missle batteries to protect ourselves and our homes for example ) I never would give up my weapons - used to secure my home and my liberty.



posted on Nov, 5 2014 @ 01:30 PM
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a reply to: Hefficide

Don't get me wrong. I care about the poor, but I lose a lot of sympathy for them when I see them in front of me at the checkout line of the grocery store with more and better stuff than I have in every way, including the amount of food they have in their carts, and they drive off in newer cars than my 10-year-old beater.

And I realize that while I have nothing against providing a helping hand, I do have a problem with it when it winds up making me suffer and taking food out of my own son's mouth. Why are they more comfortable in their poverty than I am in my supposed middle class ease and comfort?



posted on Nov, 5 2014 @ 01:32 PM
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originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: Hefficide
a reply to: TinfoilTP

Then why is there this?


I like this doozey, Al Frankin's stealing money from the 1990 Child Care Act to give to the Indians.


On the Amendment S.Amdt. 2822: Franken Amdt. No. 2822; To reserve not less than 2 percent of the amount appropriated under the Child Care and Development Block Grant Act of 1990 in each fiscal year for payments to Indian tribes and tribal organizations.


High priority stuff man, you must be proud.


2% going to the tribes and tribal organizations. You're whining about 2% going to Native Americans. Umm, did you know that Native Americans have children, too? Seriously, they do. They have children and well, things between the tribes and the federal government are handled a bit differently from the states as the tribes have partial sovereignty. Still, it's 2%. That meant 98% of the appropriated funds went everywhere else BUT the tribes. I guess you're probably screaming that 2% was too much for a population whose demographic is 1% of the population. However, considering a few other circumstances, I can give them that extra 1%.

You are a strange bird.



posted on Nov, 5 2014 @ 01:41 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Hefficide

Don't get me wrong. I care about the poor, but I lose a lot of sympathy for them when I see them in front of me at the checkout line of the grocery store with more and better stuff than I have in every way, including the amount of food they have in their carts, and they drive off in newer cars than my 10-year-old beater.

And I realize that while I have nothing against providing a helping hand, I do have a problem with it when it winds up making me suffer and taking food out of my own son's mouth. Why are they more comfortable in their poverty than I am in my supposed middle class ease and comfort?



While there are people who abuse the system, as you've stated here. The vast majority of the poor do not have anything close to the amenities you are discussing. Most don't own cars. The one thing I have noticed most extremely impoverished people owning are smart phones ( Not free government phones ). While, on the surface this seems like a very unnecessary expense - the fact is that without a phone and Internet access - it's nearly impossible to apply for even the most basic of social services. In fact a great irony today is that one has to have a home address to qualify for homeless benefits in many places. Most communities side-step this by having a halfway house that will allow homeless people to use as a home address to send and receive mail from.

The demonization of the poor is one of the things I detest about mainstream media. They tend to find the exception and then represent it as the rule.



posted on Nov, 5 2014 @ 01:46 PM
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a reply to: Hefficide

Honestly, if I had to do it, my first thing would be to change subsidies to pay-outs.

Those of us who earn our money have to figure out how to budget, so why don't the poor have to do it, too?

Instead of paying their bills for them with subsidies for housing, daycare, utilities, etc., why don't we just figure out what the amount of that support is and make it a yearly block grant disbursed in 12 monthly payments? If we did that, we could basically eliminate the need for all the support bureaucracies that oversee all the other agencies currently in place to administer those subsidies.

The poor would still get their accustomed support, and we'd save a ton of money by cutting out the administrators.

Then, I'd start means testing so that the amount of support tapers with the amount of self-support a family on aid takes in. Right now, it's all or nothing. Make too much and you lose all your aid which makes it hard to get off the dole. Taper the support incrementally so it's not so hard to start working for your independence and require people to find jobs or enter job programs and maybe more people would actually start working toward independence.


edit on 5-11-2014 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 5 2014 @ 01:54 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

I only have a couple of caveats to that, otherwise I agree.

There has to be some sort of administration or oversight involved. Preferably a Citizens watchdog group - just to make sure that Washington isn't dipping into the funds.

Secondly, the elderly and disabled would require consideration as they are not able or highly unlikely to ever reenter the workforce.



posted on Nov, 5 2014 @ 01:56 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

A few things that I would suggest as being a possibility for those cell phones and even down to clothes. They could be being provided cells by extended family in lieu of a phone bill/internet connection through a family plan. As far as clothing goes, believe it or not, a lot of higher end stores end up sending their unsold goods to places like Goodwill. So you can actually find brand new designers or brands like Banana Republic at Goodwill. If clothing is a part of that "they've got it better than me", it could simply be that they are shopping at Goodwill and grabbing up the new goods as they come in. Many stores end up donating to charity as opposed to running an outlet store because it is simply cheaper and can be written off.

PS. I largely agree with your post following this one about what you would do. As an accountant, I would even donate my time to help educate on personal budgeting.
edit on 5/11/14 by WhiteAlice because: added ps



posted on Nov, 5 2014 @ 02:00 PM
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a reply to: Hefficide

Well, there is a difference between those who cannot and those who simply do not. I am mainly upset with those who do not.

Those who cannot are the ones that our social services were meant to serve in the first place. The problem is that there is always the next group up who says, "Well, woe is me. I am almost that bad off. Why don't you support me?" And the impulse of the politician is to promise them payouts because that buys votes.



posted on Nov, 5 2014 @ 02:04 PM
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a reply to: WhiteAlice

I understand what you're saying because I've shopped at a few higher end Goodwills myself.

But -

I've also taught inner city kids who openly bragged about how their mothers would give them as much as $300 cash and drop them off at an upscale mall to buy whatever they wanted. So, they don't all shop at Goodwill, and the sheer amount of nice stuff they would just leave lying around the hallways at the end of the school year also suggests they have no sense of pride in ownership so it must be easily replaced.

Neither behavior is something my parents would EVER have tolerated. In fact, if I came home without even one glove, my mother would personally walk me back to school to find it.



posted on Nov, 5 2014 @ 02:10 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

Oh I would've been murdered if I had done that and I grew up in a fancy family, lol. I nearly did get murdered for continuously getting my coats stolen out of my locker and that wasn't even leaving it out. I found out about the high end Goodwill thing via my mother. She went to look for something old fashioned for a dress up party and well, was shocked to see the brands she'd been paying full for there.

It seems to me that those inner city kids are getting alternative sources of money that may be very well unreported sources of money. Gangs, drugs--those things could have played a factor and dropping the dough in school and bragging about it does act as a recruitment tool--"look how good I got it, man...". Hard to say. I haven't seen any super well dressed impoverished where I'm at. Most of the ones that I see using food stamps here fully look the part. Could be area difference relating to that. I'm mystified on that one. Good on you for being a teacher. I wish we paid you all more.



posted on Nov, 5 2014 @ 02:19 PM
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NZ here, we are already screwed because a donkey called John Key is our prime minister again. a reply to: crazyewok




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