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Lockheed's new laser

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posted on Nov, 4 2014 @ 04:05 PM
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www.fool.com...

It looks like we just took one big step toward laser weapons.




posted on Nov, 4 2014 @ 04:26 PM
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Isn't that a coincidence! So did the Chinese.
You sure your lasers weren't: made in China?



posted on Nov, 4 2014 @ 04:29 PM
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a reply to: BlackProjects

All those laser weapon stuff are much too hyped. It take only a nice Epner Hard Laser Gold coating on the target and it become very difficult to pass thru. Only the target's sensors "may" be affected.

And it make your missiles look so cool...


edit on 4-11-2014 by PeterMcFly because: typo



posted on Nov, 4 2014 @ 04:31 PM
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Way ahead of you guy. Check out the aircraft forum once in awhile.

Enjoy This.



posted on Nov, 4 2014 @ 04:37 PM
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originally posted by: PeterMcFly
a reply to: BlackProjects

All those laser weapon stuff are much too hyped. It take only a nice Epner Hard Laser Gold coating on the target and it become very difficult to pass thru. Only the target's sensors "may" be affected.

And it make your missiles look so cool...



Funny how the cartoon books and annuals always depicted objects in gold.

You could always heat the air around the target - I'm not sure where I'm going with that one. But if you can focus lasers enough to make glowing point of light appear in mid-air, you could have all sorts of fun .... three dimensional runway lights, glide slope angles, wind speed, temperature, razzle-dazzle, space invaders ...

Just imagine fitting large floating blimps with downward pointing lasers...

edit on 4-11-2014 by stormcell because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 4 2014 @ 05:07 PM
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a reply to: stormcell




But if you can focus lasers enough to make glowing point of light appear in mid-air


Maybe you make reference to the other thread about 3D laser display.

Not wanting to mix thread and fall Off Topic but think it apply here too:

To produce a focus point from a laser beam, also called a beam waist, you need a certain level of N.A. (Numeric Aperture) from the optics of the laser "gun". It all relate to the diameter (or aperture) of the optics.
The Asian 3D laser assy will be able to make those air spark only within a specific distance from the output optic. As you increase the distance, the N.A. drop and the size of the beam waist increase, reducing power density (irradiance W/m^2) to a point where there is no longer enough irradiance (or high enough E field) to cause the breakdown of air.

Think of it as if the laser beam between laser and target is a cone, to get a small concentrated beam waist, you need the cone to form a solid angle, as the distance increase and the emitter optic stay the same, solid angle decrease and beam waist increase. In other word you need to increase optic diameter (or also reduce wavelength of laser).

IMHO the future of direct energy weapon is electro-laser. A UV laser provide an ionization path, and a Telsa coil use the conductive air channel to deliver a powerfull electrical arc to the target using high frequency current (no return ground needed). You can cut your target in two like using an arc welding machine.



posted on Nov, 4 2014 @ 06:07 PM
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originally posted by: stormcell

originally posted by: PeterMcFly
a reply to: BlackProjects

All those laser weapon stuff are much too hyped. It take only a nice Epner Hard Laser Gold coating on the target and it become very difficult to pass thru. Only the target's sensors "may" be affected.

And it make your missiles look so cool...



Funny how the cartoon books and annuals always depicted objects in gold.

You could always heat the air around the target - I'm not sure where I'm going with that one. But if you can focus lasers enough to make glowing point of light appear in mid-air, you could have all sorts of fun .... three dimensional runway lights, glide slope angles, wind speed, temperature, razzle-dazzle, space invaders ...

Just imagine fitting large floating blimps with downward pointing lasers...
no reflective surface is perfect. therefore all surfaces will heat up under laser irradiation. the more powerful the laser the sooner this happens. with sufficiently powerful lasers this time interval can be measured in nano, pico or femto seconds. also what reflects one wavelength may not reflect another. nothing practical to coat or up-armor a missile reflects x ray or gamma rays.
edit on 4-11-2014 by stormbringer1701 because: (no reason given)

edit on 4-11-2014 by stormbringer1701 because: (no reason given)

edit on 4-11-2014 by stormbringer1701 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 4 2014 @ 06:17 PM
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originally posted by: PeterMcFly
a reply to: stormcell




But if you can focus lasers enough to make glowing point of light appear in mid-air


Maybe you make reference to the other thread about 3D laser display.

Not wanting to mix thread and fall Off Topic but think it apply here too:

To produce a focus point from a laser beam, also called a beam waist, you need a certain level of N.A. (Numeric Aperture) from the optics of the laser "gun". It all relate to the diameter (or aperture) of the optics.
The Asian 3D laser assy will be able to make those air spark only within a specific distance from the output optic. As you increase the distance, the N.A. drop and the size of the beam waist increase, reducing power density (irradiance W/m^2) to a point where there is no longer enough irradiance (or high enough E field) to cause the breakdown of air.

Think of it as if the laser beam between laser and target is a cone, to get a small concentrated beam waist, you need the cone to form a solid angle, as the distance increase and the emitter optic stay the same, solid angle decrease and beam waist increase. In other word you need to increase optic diameter (or also reduce wavelength of laser).

IMHO the future of direct energy weapon is electro-laser. A UV laser provide an ionization path, and a Telsa coil use the conductive air channel to deliver a powerfull electrical arc to the target using high frequency current (no return ground needed). You can cut your target in two like using an arc welding machine.




this principle can even go further than that. recent articles show that if you jacket a primary beam with secondary pulses that minutely precede the main beam the bracketing beams hold the main beam together and prevent power loss, divergence and bloom over long ranges in the atmosphere. this would apply to laser and particle beams of all sorts. the good news is that particles carry far more energy that a laser beam because of mass. even neutral particle beams can be made and controlled easily as heavy ions that are only neutralized as they exit the "barrel" of the gun. the upshot is you can pound the stuffings out of a target with particles that cannot be electrically or magnetically deflected.



posted on Nov, 4 2014 @ 07:11 PM
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So the shields that are being talked about in the article, can they put those on long range missiles so they can't be shot down? Ooops, I gave Russia a heads up.



posted on Nov, 4 2014 @ 09:17 PM
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originally posted by: rickymouse
So the shields that are being talked about in the article, can they put those on long range missiles so they can't be shot down? Ooops, I gave Russia a heads up.
missiles are slaves to the rocket equation. if you add mass for a shield or armor or even reflective coating you limit the range or the payload. usually both. not only that but short of star trek like shields nothing can really stop a powerful laser. you hear all that crap about mirrors but mirrors really will not work as critics think except at very low power levels. potentially not even against our barely weapons strength (10 to 100 KW) lasers we have now. but lasers will just get more powerful as technology progresses. we already produce petawatt laser bursts in the lab. we may have produced yochtawatts if i recall my science reading. now those are not ready for prime time as a weapon yet but we could easily see weaponizable multi-gigawatt or terawatt lasers soon. i promise you no mirror will survive gigawatt or terawatt pulses focused on a tiny spot on the skin of a missile. firstly you know how reflection actually works? photons are first absorbed then reemitted. Zis means that energy is transmitted to the material (mirror or not) and what is not immediately re-emitted at exactly the same energy which is thermodynamically impossible becomes heat.



posted on Nov, 4 2014 @ 09:20 PM
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a reply to: stormbringer1701

What would that look like as a system and its impact on a target?



posted on Nov, 4 2014 @ 09:32 PM
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originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: stormbringer1701

What would that look like as a system and its impact on a target?


if you mean those super powerful laser i mentioned:

present weapons strength lasers are so low powered that they have a large dwell on target time to have thier intended effect. something like 10 or more seconds. and they are expected to weaken the skin over the fuel or oxidizer tank and cause it to rupture whereupon the propellant or HE warhead would explode. this has been shown to work against mortars artillery short and medium ranged Missiles without counter measures. presumably countermeasures such as mirrors or thicker skins would increase the required dwell time or power level. some present systems in testing could probably overcome the proposed countermeasures depending on time of flight and so on.

but now on to the more powerful lasers...

the more powerful the laser the shorter the amount of time it has to dwell on the target. the more powerful lasers would be effective at tiny fractions of a second and if they were to dwell on target for the same amount of time as the present generation would cut the target in half or blow it apart using a different mechanism of action that the 10 to 100 KW class lasers. they would directly destroy the target rather than relying on flight stresses combined with weakening the structure to the point of failure followed by igniting any flammables. for these the material vaporized and turned to plasma at the target site would act as an explosive in addition to the lower power effects.
edit on 4-11-2014 by stormbringer1701 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 4 2014 @ 09:35 PM
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put another way the present generation of lasers is like holding a lighter to a aluminum can and scorching the paint off of it. the more powerful ones are like shooting the can with a sniper rifle only worse.



posted on Nov, 4 2014 @ 09:53 PM
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if you mean how would such a laser be build we have several newcommers and a couple of older techniques that would work.

led lasers are weak individually but we now know how to combine as many of them as we want into one Laser beam. since the individual emitters aren't very powerful they produce less waste heat and that reduces the challenges of cooling the system as well. in the future there is plenty of room to increase the power output of individual led lasers.

fiber laser work essentially the same way with the same benefits and results.

slab lasers can produce weapons level output with a relatively small foot print too.and if i remember right they can produce many different wavelengths. i mean they are tunable so that you can select the output wavelength to gain advantage against a target with fixed properties.

and we now have laser emitters that can produce x ray laser light. no need for nuclear pumping with bombs. and the shorter the wavelength the more difficult it is to reflect it. x rays are very hard to reflect. gamma rays are virtually impossible to defend against (on a missile.)

these types of technology is rapidly reaching the level available to chemically fueled exothermal lasers such as the ABL but are much smaller and thus more portable or likely to be mounted on a vehicle or plane.



posted on Nov, 4 2014 @ 10:04 PM
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and guess what? laser light is an electromagnetic wave. just like the microwaves emitted by a Radar antenna. that means the laser beams can be aimed the same way a radar can be. which means no optical parts, no motors or gears or hydraulics needed and almost no lag time between aiming commands and target lock. you simply cannot jitterand jink around and outmaneuver an electronically aimed laser. no matter how a Topal-M MIRV warhead zig zags or avoids a a normal trajectory it will neither fool or outrun the laser. the a stationary radar can fire beams almost 90 degrees left and right of the center of it's sector as well as considerable elevation lower and upper limits.

now like radars you could put it on a turret for even greater sector coverage but it would still only be necessary to mechanically move the emitter array orientation for major changes of sector.
edit on 4-11-2014 by stormbringer1701 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 4 2014 @ 11:04 PM
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a reply to: stormbringer1701




no reflective surface is perfect. therefore all surfaces will heat up under laser irradiation. the more powerful the laser the sooner this happens. with sufficiently powerful lasers



I'm sorry but it does not work like that in the real world. Don't know if you worked "in practice" w/t laser of power above a couple of 10 W but if you did you would remember that while it is true that no mirror are perfect; in theory if you crank up the irradiance you will eventually burn thru, but also lens too are not perfect. Also a laser need mirror for the cavity and lens for the optics.

The slightiest defect in one of the lens/mirror of your GigaWatts StarWars laser and bang the optics will explode...
There will alway exist defect in your emiter optics. Just for the 40W 10.6um CO2 I've worked on, we changed lens all the time, and the guys at the laser lab changing the very expensive cavity mirrors all the time too.

The only solution is to lower density of power by using a laser producing a large diameter beam. Check the big Rofin-Sinar CO2, the beam is a couple inch diameter, and they focus on the work piece w/t converging optic and use gas flow to avoid contamination of the lens.

But then you need to refocus to a small beam waist. You cannot do this over a long distance. This is the law of physics of our world; beam waist size is relative to convergence angle of beam, meaning also aperture of emitter optics.

edit on 4-11-2014 by PeterMcFly because: typo



posted on Nov, 4 2014 @ 11:25 PM
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a reply to: stormbringer1701

Also I was forgetting, the irradiance inside the laser cavity is much higher than irradiance of output beam, 100x or more. The resulting E field may produce breakdown even in the dielectric mirror used...



posted on Nov, 4 2014 @ 11:30 PM
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a reply to: stormbringer1701

Forgetting also, when I was working in this field, I remember that one of the most important requirement for the MIL was "all weather". Such high power laser would be effective only above the cloud cover.



posted on Nov, 5 2014 @ 12:04 AM
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So,potentially,any vehicular defence against high powered lasers only needs to be a fog emitter?That would be useless against the electro-laser mentioned above,of course.



posted on Nov, 5 2014 @ 12:56 AM
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a reply to: Ericthedoubter

Frankly why use a multi million $$$ laser system against a non armoured land vehicule? A good old CRV7 w/t nail loaded warhead will do the job. I had some of these "nail" in my hand and they look like nail w/t fins stamped on them, very impressive.

Would not like to be on the receiving end!
edit on 5-11-2014 by PeterMcFly because: precision



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