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Paradox Waves - Time Travel to the Past Does Not Affect the Present

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posted on Nov, 4 2014 @ 02:36 PM
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i don't think anyone really understands the reference frame issue WRT to Relativistic travel and time travel. it is entirely possible that the paradoxes involved and some of the limitations are illusory.

but even if it were true that one cannot travel into the past of thier own continuum(and even now we know that that is only partly true) that would not forbid travelling into the past of continuums that are nearly identical to our own. a universe where so much is the same between the two that for example genetics and evolutionary history were the same where you could nab that velociraptor and bring it back and it would be the same as a velociraptor from our own timeline.

what we currently believe about time travel is even if it is possible it is limited to no further back in time that when the time machine was turned on. this could be wrong. but that is what people who look at the science who are credentialed and well respected in the field say. if however the many world interpretation is correct then that restriction is done away with; albeit you cannot go past that point and remain in your home timeline. You'd just enter a parallel timeline. which is bad for directly affecting the past. but it does allow gathering information from the past that you could not do in your own time line. you could for example go back and witness a crime to see who did it and how and then come back to your own time and arrest the criminal. and as mentioned you could go on the ultimate in specimen collecting and restoring extinct plants and animals. there might be a world in which the only difference from your own is a certain dandy lion in someone's yard died in the other timeline with everything else being the same.

visiting such a timeline would not violate the physics concerning time travel and causality.




posted on Nov, 4 2014 @ 03:01 PM
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a reply to: InverseLookingGlass

When causality string makes a loop, it reaches a paradox - causing the string to be broken (which is in itself implying that causality can never make a loop, only over-write itself). The collapse of this causality string travels at a finite speed, in the shape of a wave travelling futureward at the speed of 1 second per seconds. Causality is collapsing at the point of over-write, but since the present is, too, travelling futureward at the speed of 1 second per seconds, the over-write wave never reaches the present. The present remember things exclusively from the old timeline, since the new, overwritten timeline never reaches the present because of its finite speed. Records, places, historical archive, everything of the old timeline is preserved. Technically, a mad scientist could have gone back in time and destroy the Earth, we would have never noticed it nor will we ever, because the paradox wave cannot reach up to intersect with our present, and this even if the paradox wave is only a fraction of a second a step behind our present.

Notice another interesting implication of paradox wave: they can repeat each time the causality loop attempts to close itself. In my example, if the past is changed, and the Earth is saved from an imminent collision, then at t=3 it does not need to send an S.O.S. to the ship, which in turn never sends a warning to the past. This generates a new overwrite, in which the Earth was never warned, and is destroyed by the asteroid. This generates a second paradox wave some 3 seconds behind the first wave, and now not only does our paradox waves have a speed, they also have a frequency, with the causailty "loop" as the emitter. All that and nothing gets perceived in our present, as we safely keep on speeding toward the future.



posted on Nov, 4 2014 @ 03:08 PM
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So I can send the winning lotto numbers to my other self and he wins but I don't.
Thats as bad as Doc and Marty stealing my sports almanac.
edit on 4-11-2014 by hillbilly4rent because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 4 2014 @ 04:58 PM
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Everything, every moment is a present moment when you experience it, so when in the past, it becomes the now.



posted on Nov, 4 2014 @ 08:46 PM
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a reply to: crayzeed

You have a democratic right to cling to your opinion in the face of reality. Have a nice day.



posted on Nov, 5 2014 @ 06:10 AM
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a reply to: Deran


If we allow faster than light signals, the 'time direction' effectively becomes traversable. (...) This type of boundary in space-time is bad news for any physical theory, since the universe is discontinuous on it. It implies all kinds of things that will be hard to account for. First and foremost, whenever a superluminal signal is created anywhere in the universe, it would create one of these boundaries. Unless superluminal signals is something that can only be achieved by intelligent beings, there would be discontinuities all over. Such a universe would make very little sense. You could be traveling around in a space ship, and suddenly notice that the entire universe changed around you, because you crossed a paradox boundary.


But, my dear, you are forgetting Time. You have to think four-dimensionally! Everything keeps on moving futureward in time - for even as paradox boundaries do exist in spacetime, they exist in our past spacetime - eluding our present spacetime, which keeps on moving away from the past with every seconds that passes. In fact, as long as your space ship does not exceed the speed of light, you will never encounter these boundaries - the only way for you to reach these boundaries is by yourself travelling back in time. But then, if I may add with a wink, you would be asking for it, would you not agree?



posted on Nov, 5 2014 @ 06:17 AM
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originally posted by: Astyanax
OP, could you please explain how the behaviour of these 'paradox waves' is wavelike?


They seem to be obeying refraction, they have a constant speed in Time, and they can even have a frequency.



posted on Nov, 5 2014 @ 06:20 AM
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originally posted by: tAcAnAvAn
To me, this theory is a more sophisticated way of looking at the "alternate realities" problem- not so much "other realms with their own physicality," more "all reality at once lurks right behind the veil of the present."


Ah, finally someone who gets it!



posted on Nov, 5 2014 @ 02:30 PM
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originally posted by: crayzeed
This is one point that I cannot reconcile with Einsteins theory.I cannot see why travelling faster than the speed of light would give you time travel.


Like that:



If you accelerate away from Earth, you warp spacetime, and a tachyon (or any sufficiently faster than light object) emitted from the ship would then reach Earth not in its present, but in fact in its past.

Cool, eh?


edit on 5-11-2014 by swanne because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 12:53 AM
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a reply to: swanne


The answer is so simple: the Earth is both destroyed (in the present) and saved (in the past).

There is a simpler answer, the past, present, and future do not exist simultaneously, and travelling away from Earth at a fast velocity wont cause the Earth to move into the past relative to the observer moving away. One of the main reasons QM doesn't play well with Einsteins theories of relativity is because quantum entanglement allows non-local causality. Even though we can't use quantum entanglement to transmit meaningful information, it does allow an instantaneous interaction between particles in the future and the past, assuming the future and past can exist simultaneously.

In that case not only do you have entanglement occurring between particles located in different parts of space, but you've got particles located in different times which are also entangled, and the whole model really just becomes a messy paradoxical web of entanglements which makes very little rational sense. There are more concrete examples of how QM conflicts with relativity, but that is a good example which uses your own line of reasoning (entanglement is the only known phenomena capable of FTL interaction).

Now the thing is, we have definitely proven that quantum entanglement is real and can occur, which might indicate that our understand of QM is perfectly fine, what we need to adjust is our understanding of space-time and gravity, clearly that is where our theories are wrong or incomplete. QM inherently demonstrates that the future doesn't yet exist because events are non-deterministic. If other time-lines do exist at all they must be completely isolated from ours like in the many-worlds interpretation.
edit on 6/11/2014 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 04:25 AM
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originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
Now the thing is, we have definitely proven that quantum entanglement is real and can occur

But we also know that Special Relativity is as real:
Special Relativity

How else to explain the constancy of light speed in all inertial frames? And furthermore, we do know that FTL gives time travel - it's an accepted fact even amongst respected physicists:
Time travel via FTL


If other time-lines do exist at all they must be completely isolated from ours like in the many-worlds interpretation.

Don't you see? My theory is a many-world interpretation - additionally, I found where the multiverses are hidden: In Time! I've spent my life trying to figure out where were these multiverses in space, only to discover that they are located in Time, entire universes sandwiched between paradox waves!



posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 04:54 AM
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"Time Travel" is real, at least Time Dilation. . . which is probably the same thing.

en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 09:17 AM
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a reply to: swanne

Maybe the actual paradox lies in the attempt to apply the theory of relativity to superluminal processes...



posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 11:35 AM
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originally posted by: moebius
a reply to: swanne

Maybe the actual paradox lies in the attempt to apply the theory of relativity to superluminal processes...


Or perhaps the paradoxes are meant to be - they are the location of every alternative timelines, including ours. If combining SRT and superluminal processes create a model for paradox waves, then maybe it is because reality is located amongst paradox waves, and the combined model is simply describing how multiverses really work on a bigger scale.

Maybe our reality is actually a haven between two paradox waves, forever traveling in Time, never realizing that there are other versions of us just a few seconds out of step with ours. Alternative timelines right around us, surimposed to us in Space, but invisible to us because of their out-of-synchronism in Time.



posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 12:06 PM
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If you are reading this, in this reality, you are now in a 7th divergent reality timeline. 7 times a catastrophic destiny has been avoided with information from a future that no longer exists to us.

You can make small, isolated changes in the past with isolated results in the present. Often the result is not good. Unpredictable and the consequences while isolated can have far reaching impact. Changing a past leaves the subjects with memory fragments that conflict with the new present... It can so completely change that the person that was is gone.

Some rabbit holes are better left unexplored.




posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 10:06 PM
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a reply to: swanne
Could you please explain how they have frequency? Also, what corresponds to their amplitude and phase, and in what medium do they propagate?

Thanks again.



posted on Nov, 7 2014 @ 06:52 AM
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originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: swanne
Could you please explain how they have frequency? Also, what corresponds to their amplitude and phase, and in what medium do they propagate?

Thanks again.


As I have already explained in a post above, if the past is changed, and the Earth is saved from an imminent collision, then at t=3 it does not need to send an S.O.S. to the ship, which in turn never sends a warning to the past. This generates a new overwrite, in which the Earth was never warned, and is destroyed by the asteroid. This generates a second paradox wave some 3 seconds behind the first wave, and now not only does our paradox waves have a speed, they also have a frequency, with the causality "loop" as the emitter. The frequency will be proportional to the lenght of the causality loop, in Time.

The amplitude of those waves is currently unknown, but I would venture the speculation that the amplitude would be constant for all waves.

Since paradox waves are waves in time and not "conventional" waves in matter or fields, they do not obey any in-phase or out-of-phase mutual interference.

And, finally, the medium in which they propagate is the time axis of a Minkowski space, like so:



And they propagate at the (constant) velocity of 1 second per seconds.




posted on Nov, 7 2014 @ 12:41 PM
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originally posted by: swanne

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
Now the thing is, we have definitely proven that quantum entanglement is real and can occur

But we also know that Special Relativity is as real:
Special Relativity

And when combined they product results that don't make sense, meaning of the theories is incomplete in some way. It's obvious that our understanding of space-time is where we don't quite have the full picture, we still even have trouble properly explaining how gravity works. Personally I have a very hard time believing that the past and future are actually just as real as this present moment, I get the sense that idea is some how flawed and I have much more faith in what QM has to say about time, which is that the future has yet to be determined, or perhaps every possible future has already been determined. But in either case it doesn't say you can interact with the future as you could in your thought experiment; simply by travelling towards the Earth at a high velocity instead of away from it.


originally posted by: swanne

If other time-lines do exist at all they must be completely isolated from ours like in the many-worlds interpretation.

Don't you see? My theory is a many-world interpretation - additionally, I found where the multiverses are hidden: In Time! I've spent my life trying to figure out where were these multiverses in space, only to discover that they are located in Time, entire universes sandwiched between paradox waves!

Well typically the many-world interpretations of QM are an attempt to explain the mechanism behind the collapse of the wave function, to shine light on the hidden variables as it were, which is why the time lines are usually isolated. The difference here is that your idea has objects in the future interacting with objects in the past in order to create new universes. So you're saying that both the past and future are reachable by exploiting relativity and FTL interaction, but you're also saying the time line can be changed even though it's already determined. I just don't think Einsteins view of space-time was entirely correct, because it conflicts with QM, which is a prime reason he didn't like QM.



posted on Nov, 7 2014 @ 12:47 PM
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originally posted by: igor_ats
"Time Travel" is real, at least Time Dilation. . . which is probably the same thing.

en.wikipedia.org...

Yes you could exploit time dilation to travel into the future, but you couldn't go back once in the future. It's not quite the same thing being discussed by the OP. To anyone who is confused about what the OP is talking about I high suggest watching this video:



posted on Nov, 7 2014 @ 01:26 PM
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originally posted by: [post=18636484]To anyone who is confused about what the OP is talking about I high suggest watching this video:

For the record, I find this show's explanations rather twisted. Those who really want to know how it works, I made an (in my opinion) better vulgarisation of the process:

physics we can all understand - the Special Theory of Relativity




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