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Russia Seeking to Absorb East Ukrainian Rebels Into Armed Forces, Says Kiev

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posted on Nov, 5 2014 @ 11:19 AM
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No doubt that there was some going along to get along ,but like a bad marriage you might just have to give up on it eventually .Oh and I had heard that it was some other fella in Russian politics that made that decision and not Putin .I think Putin may have rebuked him over it . just saying a reply to: Xcathdra




posted on Nov, 5 2014 @ 01:19 PM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Question -

How does invading Ukraine equate into standing up against TPTB?


TPTB plan things long in advance.

Militarily strategic it`s a nightmare when you have supply lines stretching way too long, Operation Barbarossa is a good example of it. So trying to get bases close to Russia with supplies is crucial into a future war for the TPTB.

And there you have your answer as to why Putin said breaking up the Soviet Union was a bad thing. Ukraine, Georgia and Moldavia problems are all caused by TPTB trying to get bases close to Russia and Russia trying to prevent it. If the Soviet Union hadn`t been broken up, none of those problems wouldn`t had to be addressed by Russia for its own protection.

And as I showed, TPTB is following the Brzezinski doctrine.

But what could possibly go wrong with taking on a nuclear Super Power with all the rabbits who like hats, horses who didn`t used sun protection and nukes taking into the equation ?

- Russian scientists may have stumbled on a thing or two accidentally which NATO isn`t aware of which can change a battle dramatically

- NATO also is electronic dependent and by so is vulnerable to EMP attacks

- Russia would fight from close by their supplies and NATO not

- US its defense budget maybe way bigger, but how much of it ends in the pockets of oligarchs, is wasted by too expensive research projects and by maintaining all the military bases around the World, and last but not least, how much is absorbed by all the wars it`s fighting. And than there`s also the matter of needing lower wages for Russia and China, so don`t be fooled too much about the defense budgets difference regarding the strength differences. So yes, NATO is stronger and more advanced, but probably not as much most think looking at the defense budgets.

- US can`t afford to leave the rest of the World bases unmanned, so it`s somewhat limited in what it can send in

- And than there`s nukes which can be used to wipe out military bases, troop concentrations and aircraft carriers

Anyone thinking it`s going to be a slam-dunk just as with Iraq, Libya or Serbia should think again.

My guess is, if and when WW3 erupts somewhere in the future the main battle will be fought in the ME, Eurasia will see some action, China will go at the same time rampant around the South and East China Sea, because it knows US needs to have to fight at as many places at the same time, China also maybe order North-Korea to nuke South Korea so US will be kept busy over there too and Africa will see some action just as with WW1 and don`t forget things like India/Pakistan which can erupt also quite easily when the World is at flames. Once it goes really off in the ME all most all countries in the ME will be sucked in it very quickly.

There`s a really good possibility we already are seeing what belongs to WW3 happening with Libya, Syria, Arab Spring and Ukraine but with a "slow" start.

There`s no telling with TPTB being dead set onto wanting to keep or becoming the Worlds sole Super Power and Russia/Iran/China not going to bow down to them how this will end.
edit on 5 11 2014 by BornAgainAlien because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 5 2014 @ 03:20 PM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien




There`s no telling with TPTB being dead set onto wanting to keep or becoming the Worlds sole Super Power and Russia/Iran/China not going to bow down to them how this will end.


That they are dead set is clear. However, due to very high arrogance, belligerence, lack of empathy, drunkedness for global domination, outright immoral............factors the Western leadership needs to be taught a firm lesson.

No other than Russia can do so in military terms. China can do so in economic terms. Combined together these two nations can really bring the western arrogance and "me always right" attitude to a long lasting balance.




posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 12:20 AM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Every single issue Putin has made about the west has been a direct result of his own actions. Hell Ukraine was not even about NATO but trade with Europe. Prior to everything Ukraine was non aligned. Only after Russia invaded did it look towards NATO.

Secondly you and Putin must understand former SSR's are separate sovereign nations who can choose their own path. Treating them like vassals, as you guys have been doing by the manner you speak about them, is just one of many reasons they have no desire to hitch their carts to Russia.

How does Russia's invasion of Ukraine equate into taking a stand against TPTB?



posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 12:37 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

America treats Latin America as vassals. What's the difference? At least there are Russians in Ukraine.
edit on 6-11-2014 by tavi45 because: auto correct mistake



posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 01:02 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra



Secondly you and Putin must understand former SSR's are separate sovereign nations who can choose their own path.


We do, but the US doesn`t seem to understand that...

US and Democracy



posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 02:25 AM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien




We do, but the US doesn`t seem to understand that...



So if he knows then he just doesn't care, which is why Russia is in the position they are in right now.



posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 04:05 AM
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originally posted by: Agent_USA_Supporter
a reply to: Xcathdra

"Markian Lubkivskyi/Facebook "

Very reablie.


But when the "pro-Russian" lot trot out Youtube video's, Facebook pages and obscure blogs to support their position, it's the verified word of God?

Hmmmm...

Double standards at play here...



posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 04:05 AM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Wait Russia is supposed to care about Americans? Let's say Russia did. What could they do to show they care? Also how has their lack of caring put then in their current position? Their current position is entirely about America forcing them into it.



posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 04:07 AM
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a reply to: tavi45

No, it isn't. Their "current position" has been planned since Putin become PM, then President - he pretty much laid out his plans in his inauguration speeches at the time. The "West/NATO" have actually tried to be friendly to Russia for years, but they have a real hard-on for the paranoia, especially of late and anything the West has done to Russia has been a reaction to Russian actions.



posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 04:12 AM
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a reply to: stumason

That's rather one sided. If true they just read the West's playbook. They've been undermining Russian interests and acting to encircle Russia. It's straight from the Cold War playbook. I guess America missed the memo on the Cold War ending?



posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 04:13 AM
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originally posted by: tavi45
a reply to: Xcathdra

America treats Latin America as vassals. What's the difference? At least there are Russians in Ukraine.


No the US treats Latin America as equals. We respect the fact not all south American governments li9ke us and we go from there. Those who are getting cozy with Russia are still standing because the US has not invaded them as Russia did with Ukraine.

The Russians in Ukraine should pick between living in Ukraine under Ukraine law or move back to Russia. what Putin is doing in Ukraine opens the door for China to do it in Russia. The number of ethnic Chinese living in Russia, particularly the east, is a substantial amount.

Would you accept China invading parts of Russia to protect ethnic Chinese while annexing Russian territory?


Putin can act like a bad ass all he wants but his arrogance is blinding him to the fact that he has just opened the door for other nations to act as Russia has towards Russia.
edit on 6-11-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 04:20 AM
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a reply to: tavi45

Since when? I recommend you read Xcatchdra's thread on what has actually happened over the past 20 years since the end of the Cold War. Are you even old enough to remember the Cold War?

In a nutshell, Russia and NATO were actually working well together until Putin took charge, who slowly disengaged from the West while at the same time making noises about being "encircled" or "undermined", completely at odds with what had been happening before with Russia's inclusion and privileged treatment by the West/NATO.

All you're doing is towing Putin's line - Russia isn't being encircled - rather, Russia is making out like it is in order to sell it's latest adventures to it's populace.



posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 04:28 AM
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a reply to: tavi45

Russia cannot be "encircled".

there are plenty of countries who are non aligned or allies of Russia.

The west has not done anything to undermine Russia.

The west / NATO have reached out to NATO since the collapse of the Soviet Union and have been rebuked by Russia every step of the way.

Russia has every right to run their country as they see fit, including their foreign policy. With that in mind every other nation on the planet has the same ability. Everything that has occurred is based on Putin's actions.

NATO military presence in bordering nations - Did not occur until Russia invaded Ukraine.
Europe's push to replace Russian gas - Did not occur until Russia invaded Ukraine.
Ukraine as a non aligned country - ended with Yanukovych aligning with Russia.
Russian sanctions - Occurred when Russia invaded Ukraine.
Ukraine wanting to join NATO - did not occur until Russia invaded Ukraine.
Finland looking at joining NATO - did not occur until Russia invaded Ukraine.
Missile defense - reinstated when Russia invaded Ukraine.

If NATO wanted to end the functionality of Crimea as a naval base for Russia all that is required would be for turkey to refuse to allow Russian military assets transit through the Bosphorus Straight / Dardanelles.

As another example of Russian over reach in history - The Treaty of Hünkar Iskelesi of 1833 required closure of the straights to any nation upon Russian demand.

Why did Turkey look to the west instead of aligning with the USSR?


Turkey was neutral in World War II until February 1945, and the straits were closed to the warships of belligerent nations during this time, although some German auxiliary vessels were permitted to transit. In diplomatic conferences, Soviet representatives had made known their interest in Turkish concession of Soviet naval bases on the straits. This, as well as Stalin's demands for the restitution of the Turkish provinces of Kars, Artvin and Ardahan to the Soviet Union (which were lost by Turkey in the Russo–Turkish War of 1877–1878, but were regained with the Treaty of Kars in 1921), were considerations in Turkey's decision to abandon neutrality in foreign affairs. Turkey declared war against Germany in February 1945, but did not engage in offensive actions.[13][14][15][16]

In more recent years, the Turkish Straits have become particularly important for the oil industry. Russian oil, from ports such as Novorossyisk, is exported by tankers primarily to western Europe and the U.S. via the Bosporus and the Dardanelles straits.


Currently the Montreux Convention Regarding the Regime of the Turkish Straits is whats currently in force.

The point you may ask....

That even 80 + years ago Russian actions have created the very situation it did not want to occur.



posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 04:39 AM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: tavi45

Russia cannot be "encircled".

there are plenty of countries who are non aligned or allies of Russia.

The west has not done anything to undermine Russia.

The west / NATO have reached out to NATO since the collapse of the Soviet Union and have been rebuked by Russia every step of the way.

Russia has every right to run their country as they see fit, including their foreign policy. With that in mind every other nation on the planet has the same ability. Everything that has occurred is based on Putin's actions.

NATO military presence in bordering nations - Did not occur until Russia invaded Ukraine.
Europe's push to replace Russian gas - Did not occur until Russia invaded Ukraine.
Ukraine as a non aligned country - ended with Yanukovych aligning with Russia.
Russian sanctions - Occurred when Russia invaded Ukraine.
Ukraine wanting to join NATO - did not occur until Russia invaded Ukraine.
Finland looking at joining NATO - did not occur until Russia invaded Ukraine.
Missile defense - reinstated when Russia invaded Ukraine.

If NATO wanted to end the functionality of Crimea as a naval base for Russia all that is required would be for turkey to refuse to allow Russian military assets transit through the Bosphorus Straight / Dardanelles.

As another example of Russian over reach in history - The Treaty of Hünkar Iskelesi of 1833 required closure of the straights to any nation upon Russian demand.

Why did Turkey look to the west instead of aligning with the USSR?


Turkey was neutral in World War II until February 1945, and the straits were closed to the warships of belligerent nations during this time, although some German auxiliary vessels were permitted to transit. In diplomatic conferences, Soviet representatives had made known their interest in Turkish concession of Soviet naval bases on the straits. This, as well as Stalin's demands for the restitution of the Turkish provinces of Kars, Artvin and Ardahan to the Soviet Union (which were lost by Turkey in the Russo–Turkish War of 1877–1878, but were regained with the Treaty of Kars in 1921), were considerations in Turkey's decision to abandon neutrality in foreign affairs. Turkey declared war against Germany in February 1945, but did not engage in offensive actions.[13][14][15][16]

In more recent years, the Turkish Straits have become particularly important for the oil industry. Russian oil, from ports such as Novorossyisk, is exported by tankers primarily to western Europe and the U.S. via the Bosporus and the Dardanelles straits.


Currently the Montreux Convention Regarding the Regime of the Turkish Straits is whats currently in force.

The point you may ask....

That even 80 + years ago Russian actions have created the very situation it did not want to occur.



Anyone who takes this post actual serious ?



posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 04:44 AM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien

If you don't then by all means refute my position with facts.



posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 05:40 AM
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originally posted by: stumason

originally posted by: Agent_USA_Supporter
a reply to: Xcathdra

"Markian Lubkivskyi/Facebook "

Very reablie.


But when the "pro-Russian" lot trot out Youtube video's, Facebook pages and obscure blogs to support their position, it's the verified word of God?

Hmmmm...

Double standards at play here...
I suppose someone like a John Kerry and his statement to Putin that this being the 21st century and you don't invade other nations should be considered as a reliable reference on how world politics work eh ? The latest election results in the US speak very loud as to something is not working and people know it's not working .Given the sliding away from a working country one can only think that it must have something to do with political policy and that if they got it wrong within ,it would be hard to think they could get it correct without .



posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 02:23 PM
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a reply to: tavi45




Wait Russia is supposed to care about Americans?


Did I say anything that says they should?




What could they do to show they care? Also how has their lack of caring put then in their current position? Their current position is entirely about America forcing them into it.


Again I never said they had to care, and as far as their current position... it wouldn't be that way had they stayed out of Crimea and now eastern Ukraine.

And exactly what has the US done that forces Russia to invade it's neighbors and annex part of those neighbors?



posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 02:39 PM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien




Anyone who takes this post actual serious ?


Much more than the one I'm replying to.


So what exactly is it that you can't take serious in that post?



posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 07:29 PM
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originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: BornAgainAlien




Anyone who takes this post actual serious ?


Much more than the one I'm replying to.


So what exactly is it that you can't take serious in that post?


No surprise here.

There was too much "real" information on the internet to absorb today to go and repeat myself against you guys again.



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