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Russia Seeking to Absorb East Ukrainian Rebels Into Armed Forces, Says Kiev

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posted on Nov, 4 2014 @ 08:40 AM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: WineWithIce5

Except that is not what this says is happening. It's not Russia making the Ukraine strong, it's Russia demanding the rebels join the Russian army, and telling Ukrainians they must comply with RUSSIAN law.


I think its so Russia can gain justification for invading Ukraine completely. By taking this action should Kiev forces engage the rebels they would be engaging Russian military units. That encounter would be used by Putin for justification on moving further west into Ukraine.

I think Putin knows the south and East of Ukraine cannot hold without russian assistance. I think this is a way for Putin to backdoor the annexation of those regions.

With the head of the UN, Ban kai Moon, denouncing the elections I don't see how Russia will spin this one. Porshenko was meeting with his security advisers to discuss scrapping the cease fire the rebels just violated.


All of what you are saying could be true and much of what you have said is a way of looking at the situation that just might give Putin the upper hand in that he may have the legal authority to do what he wanted to do all along .What ever the UN has to say doesn't mean much at this point imo . They have been either toothless or unwilling to resolve other issues up to this point and are really looking much like NATO as re-making themselves to a state of prominence .

The UN has some big messes on their plate to deal with and other then being another propaganda mouth piece for Washington doesn't really bring much to the table .It will be Washington and NATO that will decide the next move .




posted on Nov, 4 2014 @ 08:45 AM
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a reply to: ScientificRailgun




I really shouldn't be surprised that the pro-Russian folks here just throw around words like "fascist" and "puppet".


I really shouldn't be surprised that some westerns in here not only support Poroshenko's but support the fascism & nationalist movement in Ukraine without knowing the history.


Your BELOVED Poroshenko is a billionaire whom int doing anything to help the Ukrainian only severing those interests of the Euporean Union and American Government.

I am not surprised folks like you will be attacking and denouncing them as Pro Russian agents just because they arent closed minded and arent drones when it comes to world views on the issues.


They are, but RT constantly tows the Anti US line
Is that so? for the past few months it has being the western news outlets that has being towing Anti Russian lines whatever its about Ukraine or its stance towards Syria.

Russia is the only one that has being preventing the downfall of Assad, could you name one western leader that has followed a similar stance? doubtful that you could.


. Russia has been quite literally backed into a corner by Western powers
Hows that fake Sub Hunt in Sweden ?

Has Russia Fallen yet? i count you might as well as bring up John McCain for the expertise on that one.




When Putin finally loses it it and presses that red button
For an American living in Japan you are recently desperate for Russia to be Nuked arent you? if Russia goes so does the west.

Ever heard Mutual destruction kid?



posted on Nov, 4 2014 @ 08:56 AM
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a reply to: Agent_USA_Supporter




Your BELOVED Poroshenko is a billionaire whom int doing anything to help the Ukrainian only severing those interests of the Euporean Union and American Government.


[Citation Needed]




Russia is the only one that has being preventing the downfall of Assad, could you name one western leader that has followed a similar stance? doubtful that you could.


You're implying that's a good thing. Assad needs to go.




Has Russia Fallen yet?


Did I imply it had fallen? Did I suggest that they were about to fall? No. I only said that liked an abused dog backed into a corner, it's going to eventually lash out violently.




For an American living in Japan you are recently desperate for Russia to be Nuked arent you? if Russia goes so does the west.

Ever heard Mutual destruction kid?


For an American living in Japan I have a particular respect and reverence for the possibility of MAD. Radiation isn't pretty, and Fukushima is a stark reminder of the dangers of any large-scale radioactive release, either by power plants or by strikes. If Putin should push that red button, I fully understand that my way of life, should I survive at all will be forever changed. Nobody here wants that outcome, but Russia has not so subtly reminded the west multiple times in the recent months that it has a nuclear arsenal. Is it a bluff? Maybe. But I personally believe Putin is the kind of man that would use a tactical nuke on the Ukraine to get his way. Once that happens, it's only a matter of time before SHTF.

Also? I'm no kid.



posted on Nov, 4 2014 @ 08:59 AM
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Watching things and thinking about it , It would seem that Putin is playing for a stalemate .He is not loosing any ground or support from the ones that count and seems to be gaining a position of strength when it comes to Ukraine .Kiev on the other hand just seems to be getting weaker and I suspect may need a new election when the western part finally decided to chase him out of town .Long cold winters there I hear . a reply to: Agent_USA_Supporter



posted on Nov, 4 2014 @ 10:14 AM
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originally posted by: Agent_USA_Supporter
I really shouldn't be surprised that some westerns in here not only support Poroshenko's but support the fascism & nationalist movement in Ukraine without knowing the history.

they were voted out of office in the latest elections. Currently Russia has more nationalist neo nazis in the Duma. If you really want to open pandoras box on history you better be prepared to defend Stalin and his 20 million deaths.



originally posted by: Agent_USA_Supporter
Your BELOVED Poroshenko is a billionaire whom int doing anything to help the Ukrainian only severing those interests of the Euporean Union and American Government.

Ironically Putin is worth more than Porshenko and is guilty of the same.



originally posted by: Agent_USA_Supporter
I am not surprised folks like you will be attacking and denouncing them as Pro Russian agents just because they arent closed minded and arent drones when it comes to world views on the issues.

Are you incapable of holding a debate without personally attacking people?



originally posted by: Agent_USA_Supporter
They are, but RT constantly tows the Anti US line
Is that so? for the past few months it has being the western news outlets that has being towing Anti Russian lines whatever its about Ukraine or its stance towards Syria.

Because Russia is involved in both. Putin is protecting Assad, who is killing his own people. An issue people on your side of the fence like to throw when talking about Ukraine.

But by all means whose us the lies the western Media prints.

I make the request because you argue against whats contained in those articles yet you never support your position.



originally posted by: Agent_USA_Supporter
Russia is the only one that has being preventing the downfall of Assad, could you name one western leader that has followed a similar stance? doubtful that you could.

Russia has been assisting in the whole sale slaughter of civilians who dont support Assad.



originally posted by: Agent_USA_Supporter
. Russia has been quite literally backed into a corner by Western powers
Hows that fake Sub Hunt in Sweden ?

Has Russia Fallen yet? i count you might as well as bring up John McCain for the expertise on that one.

Russia was able to get their sub out of territorial waters before being caught.

Putin has backed himself into a corner. Putin just made it worse when he violated the Minsk agreement by recognizing the illegal elections in South and East Ukraine.

As I stated from the start, the rebels would use the cease fire as a way of resupplying and regrouping, and that is exactly what they did.

As for Russia falling -
that depends on if Putin will rejoin us here in reality as opposed to his wonder land.




When Putin finally loses it it and presses that red button
For an American living in Japan you are recently desperate for Russia to be Nuked arent you? if Russia goes so does the west.

Ever heard Mutual destruction kid?




posted on Nov, 4 2014 @ 11:02 AM
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originally posted by: the2ofusr1
One thing I will say is that Mr. Putin must be driving the western puppets and their masters nuts .Not that he needed to do that ,but he defiantly makes moves that no one seems to be able to predict .He also seems to be taking a legal (of sorts) approach to it . I am thinking that he will move in some new hardware and re-position the military to contend with any kind of a advance from the western powers .


Already happened :



posted on Nov, 4 2014 @ 11:39 AM
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originally posted by: the2ofusr1
Watching things and thinking about it , It would seem that Putin is playing for a stalemate .He is not loosing any ground or support from the ones that count and seems to be gaining a position of strength when it comes to Ukraine .Kiev on the other hand just seems to be getting weaker and I suspect may need a new election when the western part finally decided to chase him out of town .Long cold winters there I hear . a reply to: Agent_USA_Supporter



The Ukrainian army now gets guerrilla training from NATO and Russia doesn`t want to occupy the whole of the Ukraine.

Russia knows the goal of the neo-cons is to draw them into another "Afghanistan" to bankrupt them. They also know when the neo-cons can`t do it one way they just go the other way (see Syria second attempt fail last year (first was using Syrian rebels) and right after that the Maiden in the Ukraine).

Russia has blocked the neo-cons two times in Syria, first with helping out Assad "defeating" the rebels and second last year by blocking airstrikes.

Assad needs to go first for the neo-cons can have a go at Iran, and for both Russia needs to be weakened.

Ultimate goal(s) for the neo-cons are still breaking up Iran/Russia/China alliance, taking out Syria and Iran regimes, weakening Russia and/or regime change, containing China as a World power (Russia and ME is the key to that because of China`s resource dependence) and to make BRICS weak.

And what could go possibly wrong with such an ambitious plan ?
edit on 4 11 2014 by BornAgainAlien because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 4 2014 @ 11:47 AM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien

You make a lot suppositions without any sources to back them up. I also notice you throw around more buzz-words like "Neo-Cons"

However, I think you'll be eating your words before this is all over.


Russia doesn`t want to occupy the whole of the Ukraine


I believe this is patently false. As soon as the Pro-Russian leader in Kiev was given the boot, Russia has been making very aggressive moves into Ukraine territory. First came the annexation of Crimea, now there are active duty Russian troops in eastern Ukraine. If Putin doesn't have his sights on the entirety of Ukraine I'll eat my rugged yet fashionable boots.



posted on Nov, 4 2014 @ 11:50 AM
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Let me start by saying that I'm not pro Russian. I would be tortured and killed if I went there. I dont think Putin is a great guy. I don't think Russia is an angelic country with nothing but noble intentions.

That being said I once again have to give Putin credit. He's beating America at its own game.

Can you staunchly anti Russian folk explain to me why America is allowed to invade nation's, hold sham elections, train locals for their army, and assassinate or otherwise topple world leaders as often as they choose?

Can you explain why Russia does it one time (in their backyard no less) and only for the part of the country that is mostly Russian and has grievances with the American puppet being installed makes them aggressors and war mongers?

Before you accuse me of derailing the thread with legitimate questions, no I can't refute your story with evidence. I don't live in Ukraine and the majority of our "bought and paid for" western journalism is anti Russian. More importantly I believe it's true. It's nice to see someone stand up to America. I wish they'd done it earlier but clearly if they stepped in this strongly in Libya or Afghanistan they'd have been torn to pieces by the MSM.

The Ukrainian side and it's Western backers have also some many unsavory and illegal things such as indiscriminate shelling of major population centers. If Boston or Atlanta or some other city was taken over by rebels and the American government started indiscriminate bombing runs or artillery attacks I'd have some serious misgivings. How about you? Would you be fine with Boston getting bombed and innocent civilians being slaughtered to stop a rebellion?

So again I fail to see why Russia is evil and America is good. I'd rather live in America but I'm not blinded by brainwashing to think that our country is either perfectly good and magnanimous or that Russia is pure evil.

History tells a very very different story than the one you're pushing.



posted on Nov, 4 2014 @ 12:07 PM
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a reply to: tavi45

To be clear, I'm by no means saying the United States' hands are clean in this whole situation. However, I do have my serious doubts about the US government being even ABLE to install "puppet" leaders without it turning into a huge circus. I mean, they couldn't even put the lid on Benghazi, and that was one dead diplomat.

The current US government isn't even competent enough to pass some bi-partisan legislation, controlling several "puppet" states seems a bit of a stretch. This where I lose the conspiracy types. It seems that the US government is somehow both completely incompetent and at the SAME time responsible for the world's largest conspiracies, controlling several nations at once and directing the movements of powerful states all to work toward the goal of a one world government.

They can't even handle their own economy, but they're behind the NWO. And they able to keep the whole thing swept under the rug somehow, to the point where you can't even post any sources or leads into your theories of US control of Ukraine. Okay.

Do I believe there's western influence in Ukraine? Of course. Most of Ukraine has been looking to distance itself from Russia for some time now. I don't think it's any conspiracy. Ukrainians see other Western nations and want to be able to enjoy the same freedoms. Something not possible under Russia's thumb. So they remove the pro-Russia leader, and suddenly it's labelled a "Nazi Junta" by Russia, and they're invaded. It's not hard to see what Putin's end-game here is. He wants to maintain a buffer between Russia and the west.



posted on Nov, 4 2014 @ 12:09 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

I'm sorry but ANYTHING that comes out of Kiev I refuse to believe. They are abject liars of the lowest kind and a waste of listening too. I will get info from other sources and then believe it,but not if it comes out of Kiev.



posted on Nov, 4 2014 @ 12:23 PM
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a reply to: Dimithae

But hey they will believe anything what Kiev as if Kiev's goverememnt is made out of Gold.



posted on Nov, 4 2014 @ 12:30 PM
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a reply to: ScientificRailgun
You're implying that's a good thing. Assad needs to go.

NATO/America Got rid of Gaddafi and look at the chaos that followed Libya your logic as always fails. I am removing Assad is not going fix Syria.

This will only strengthen the power of the Saudi influence in the middle east, but hey i doubt your going to believe since you have fox news for that or CNN for that matter.

I only said that liked an abused dog backed into a into a corner
Come back in Four years or so and then tell me if Russia is backed into a corner, i am not surprised that Westren viewers are this gullible on believing that Russia is pushed into into a corner.

The same news outlets that have being pushing and trying humiliate Russia during the winter games and how it that turn again? oh thats it right it backfired.



But I personally believe John McCain/Romney is the kind of man that would use a tactical nuke on the Worldto get his way.

There you go fixed it for ya as it makes sense.




Also? I'm no kid.

Sure you arent, thats why your still stuck in the 1960s mindset.



posted on Nov, 4 2014 @ 12:36 PM
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a reply to: ScientificRailgun

The puppet governments and regime changes are fine by the CIA, the military, and corporations. Our government might not be competent but these groups certainly are. They just need an excuse and public and government approval for doing so.



posted on Nov, 4 2014 @ 12:45 PM
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a reply to: Agent_USA_Supporter

I nice to know that when I refute an opinion you hold, you'll resort to personal attacks, distorting my words, or even putting words in my mouth. I'll keep this in mind when responding to future posts you make.

1: As you've pointed out, I'm an American living in Japan. Most of my media intake is Japanese. Admittedly, the Japanese media to report on a slightly western tilt. I do occasionally check CNN, but entirely disregard Fox News or MSNBC as trusted news sources.

2: Explain to me exactly HOW Russia is not backed into a corner. It's been isolated diplomatically, sanctioned economically, and with oil prices falling, it's GDP is dropping. Worldwide support of Russia's actions in recent months has dropped to nearly zero with the exception of either a) staunchly anti-US states or b) communist states. Do provide sources. Oh, and RT is not a source. That's propaganda.

3: Not entirely sure what the Russian hosted Winter Games has to do with this whole situation. Some of Sochi's hotels weren't exactly 5-star, but that's about it. If that's what you're referring to, it was a media blip if that. Maybe you're talking about Russia's stance on homosexuality, and some of the athlete's response to that stance? If so, again, it was a mild topic of discussion but not exactly a game-changer.

4: I'm not sure how you imagine me in your mind, but I'm no conservative. I'm not even really liberal either. I'm rather "purple" if you had to color me in somewhere. If you're asking about my voter registration, it's "independent". I don't want to be called either a neo-con or a liberal baby. So your twisting of my words into something about McCain or Romney are patently false and frankly, offensive.



posted on Nov, 4 2014 @ 12:49 PM
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a reply to: tavi45

The military couldn't even FIND Bin Laden for nearly a decade, much less take him out without it turning into a circus.

The CIA is so full of holes it's hardly even appropriate to call them an "intelligence" agency anymore, as they don't seem to have much of that remaining.
edit on 4-11-2014 by ScientificRailgun because: Grammar iz hard. ;__;



posted on Nov, 4 2014 @ 12:57 PM
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a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Who says they even wanted to find Bin Laden? Is it any surprise that this close personal friend of the Bush family was found during Obama's presidency?

More importantly we successfully toppled regimes in Libya, Iraq, and Afghanistan.



posted on Nov, 4 2014 @ 01:02 PM
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a reply to: tavi45

I do find that odd, yes. But without any proof of collusion I can't say one way or the other.

I was a staunch opponent of going into all three of those countries. Frankly, Bush misdirected American anger about 9/11 at the two countries that had little to do with it, and Libya we should have just stayed out of. Admittedly, the western media put Obama in kind of a pinch with Libya. To the point that if Obama had done nothing, the media would have crucified him as heartless and cold.



posted on Nov, 4 2014 @ 01:09 PM
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a reply to: ScientificRailgun

And therein lies the problem. We keep going to war and interfering in the affairs of sovereign nations without any just cause besides furthering our hegemonic goals. The media is in collusion, with real journalism being long dead. We create more problems than we solve and because the people at the top make record profits and never suffer the consequences they keep doing it.



posted on Nov, 4 2014 @ 01:15 PM
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a reply to: tavi45

There are days that I think it's quite the opposite. If the rich and powerful are truly the ones in charge, would it not then be the media that is controlling the government, and not the other way around?



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