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originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: bastion
I don't particularly want to get involved in the pro's and con's in any sort of depth at present. I think that its far more important to force the major parties into giving a firm date on a Yes / No referendum - preferably as soon as possible.
Once that is set in stone then we can enter into a reasoned debate allowing all sides to state their respective points of view etc.
But I've got to respond to some of the 'benefits' you list in favour of remaining in the EU.
- Human Rights Act that protects the rights and freedoms all the main parties want to remove.
The Human Rights Act that protects terrorists puts the rights of criminals before those of their victims?
---That's a media myth, the human rights act gives the right to life, equality, maximum working hours, clean water and food, privacy, marriage, laws against torture and illegal imprisonment, the righ to a fair trial and many more that allow us some form of freedom.
Which human rights do the main parties want to remove?
---- this government has made it clear it has no intention of equality, caring about the average worker, privacy, the right to a fair trial - I'm under no illusion other parties would do the same as they're alobbied by the same people.
- Trillions we receive in aid....
What 'aid' do we get from the EU?
We recieve billions in environmental disaster clean ups (see recent floods) - there' currently £9.2Bn Uk only contracts up for grabs to improve impoverished areas in the UK and many more.
and trade (roughly £200Bn, and £1 trillion from FDI alone)......
Do you honestly believe that trade with the EU will stop if we come out of the EU?
------Not stop completely but be massively reduced due to the rigamarole of work visas and the like (plus we're an isaldn it's easier for countries to work with neighbors).
..... plus the several billion the economy gains from migrant workers.
How exactly does the economy gain 'several billions' from migrant workers who keep wages low and over burden our benefit and health services?
-----Again that's a myth read the UCL study - Imigrants generate £20Bn to the economy after subtracting, health and welfare costs and the strain put on local services. - However this issue does need to be closely monitored and ideally improved.
- Nations are outdated ideas - the sooner we see us as all the same, the better.
Imagine all the people.
Nice thought.....but we are a million miles away from that and we need to deal in the realities of today.
- We're a tiny insignificant nation -
No, we aren't.
Look at the history books.
Look at how we still punch well above our weight on the world stage.
We DO have influence.
....The empire has crumbled, we live of the back of the US and EU, without them we are nothing.
....being part of an £11 trillion economy made of half a billion people gives us far more influence in world affairs and ensuring the future of the country
Being outside the EU would allow us to pursue policies and strategies that put UK interests first at ALL times and not just when Brussels allows us.
At present if UK interests are contrary to the EU's - as happens quite frequently - we are simply out voted and have their dictates imposed upon us - that is simply wrong.
----Agreed on that point
- 1.6m Uk citizens live in the EU and 3.5m jobs depend on being a member - withdrawing would see at least 5m instantly unemployed and destroy the economy.
Where did you get this figure from?
--3.5m + 1.6m = 5m
How do 3.5million jobs depend on being a member'?
-see recent studies and reports ' 3.5m (10%) of jobs in the UK are directly dependent on the EU, and would be lost should we pull out'
- Access to free healthcare and pensions anywhere in the EU
We have that in the UK already, well before becoming a member of the EU.
Personally I think some sort of European Union would be possible - just not this overpowering, dictatorial, centralised and corrupt version we have at present.
---Couldn't agree more, the way it's structured and funded is the worst aspects of parliament and just a waste of billions that could be put to good use.
originally posted by: stumason
a reply to: ForteanOrgI could go on, but it's not just about "immigration" for us in the UK, it's been a long time coming with all the BS that we've had to put up with.
Membership applications by the UK to join the EEC were refused in 1963 and 1967 because the French President of the time Charles de Gaulle doubted the UK's political will. It is understood, however, his real fear was that English would suddenly become the common language of the community.