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UK and the EU, do you want in or out?

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posted on Nov, 3 2014 @ 02:46 PM
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In but with major changes to reduce bureaucracy, time wasting and pointless laws.

Benefits of being in

- Human Rights Act that protects the rights and freedoms all the main parties want to remove.
- Trillions we receive in aid and trade (roughly £200Bn, and £1 trillion from FDI alone) plus the several billion the economy gains from migrant workers.
- Nations are outdated ideas - the sooner we see us as all the same, the better.
- We're a tiny insignificant nation - being part of an £11 trillion economy made of half a billion people gives us far more influence in world affairs and ensuring the future of the country
- 1.6m Uk citizens live in the EU and 3.5m jobs depend on being a member - withdrawing would see at least 5m instantly unemployed and destroy the economy.
- Access to free healthcare and pensions anywhere in the EU
- Environmental mandates have turned toxic beaches into pollution free.




posted on Nov, 3 2014 @ 02:54 PM
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I think most know my position on this issue.

UK OUT OF THE EU!

Three simple reasons.

1. It costs us an increasing amount to be in the EU... this year currently 8 billion
2. No control over our boarders.... All EU citizens are allowed regardless of what strain that puts on the UK
3. Loss of Sovereignty - Laws are made from Brussels by people I didn't vote into power that are detrimental to the success of the UK

There are many other reasons.. but these alone speak for themselves.

Korg.



posted on Nov, 3 2014 @ 03:13 PM
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I am not a UKIP Voter,

they are like the SNP a "one policy party", one policy on which all others seem to be built upon.

Now I recently took part in a little vote to keep Scotland in the UK, and for the record i voted NO to Scottish independence.

I done loads of research before going for this because I recognised that none of the politicians were actually bothered with facts, on both sides of the debate, so i done my own. I done my research with a very open mind but on the balance of facts I did not believe a Independent Scotland could ever work.

So when it comes to a vote on should the UK leave the EU, I am going to take the same approach, I am going to start doing some research into this topic and make my decision based on what the facts say will be best for my country.

I have not started my research yet but I do plan on starting it in the start of the new year and until then I cannot really say one way or the other.

All I would hope is that the rest of my country men do as I intend to do and keep a open mind and do their own research.



posted on Nov, 3 2014 @ 03:46 PM
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originally posted by: crazyewok
A year ago I was IN

Now? Im Out unless the EU has some serious changes.

It not even the immigration for me. It the bureaucracy, demands, undemocratic processes, bills, very limited benefit politically and irresponsible economic behavior of other members.


Exactly - immigration is not the main issue for me with regards to the EU, it's everything else!. What I cannot fathom is that the UK (or England before it) fought against tyrants and domination from the continent for over 1,000 years, culminating in the World Wars.. Then barely a generation after those, we signed away our Sovereignty with the flick of a pen.

We could quite easily survive outside the EU and unless it is willing to reform to be more democratic and more flexible, as well as actually enforcing the rules it has set down (looking at you, France and Germany) then I am happy to leave.



posted on Nov, 3 2014 @ 03:49 PM
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a reply to: grainofsand

Norway has done very nicely thank you, outside of The E.U.

So why can't The U.K. ?



posted on Nov, 3 2014 @ 03:50 PM
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a reply to: crayzeed

You make the point about trade being Global - what has this got to do with the EU then? We're a member of the WTO - although we don't at the moment occupy our seat, the EU "represents" us - so global trade would be possible and on our own terms, not negotiated for us by Brussels.



posted on Nov, 3 2014 @ 05:14 PM
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a reply to: bastion

I don't particularly want to get involved in the pro's and con's in any sort of depth at present. I think that its far more important to force the major parties into giving a firm date on a Yes / No referendum - preferably as soon as possible.
Once that is set in stone then we can enter into a reasoned debate allowing all sides to state their respective points of view etc.

But I've got to respond to some of the 'benefits' you list in favour of remaining in the EU.


- Human Rights Act that protects the rights and freedoms all the main parties want to remove.


The Human Rights Act that protects terrorists puts the rights of criminals before those of their victims?

Which human rights do the main parties want to remove?



- Trillions we receive in aid....


What 'aid' do we get from the EU?



and trade (roughly £200Bn, and £1 trillion from FDI alone)......


Do you honestly believe that trade with the EU will stop if we come out of the EU?



..... plus the several billion the economy gains from migrant workers.


How exactly does the economy gain 'several billions' from migrant workers who keep wages low and over burden our benefit and health services?



- Nations are outdated ideas - the sooner we see us as all the same, the better.


Imagine all the people.
Nice thought.....but we are a million miles away from that and we need to deal in the realities of today.



- We're a tiny insignificant nation -


No, we aren't.
Look at the history books.
Look at how we still punch well above our weight on the world stage.
We DO have influence.



....being part of an £11 trillion economy made of half a billion people gives us far more influence in world affairs and ensuring the future of the country


Nonsense.
Being outside the EU would allow us to pursue policies and strategies that put UK interests first at ALL times and not just when Brussels allows us.

At present if UK interests are contrary to the EU's - as happens quite frequently - we are simply out voted and have their dictates imposed upon us - that is simply wrong.



- 1.6m Uk citizens live in the EU and 3.5m jobs depend on being a member - withdrawing would see at least 5m instantly unemployed and destroy the economy.


5million?
Where did you get this figure from?

How do 3.5million jobs 'depend on being a member'?



- Access to free healthcare and pensions anywhere in the EU


We have that in the UK already, well before becoming a member of the EU.

Personally I think some sort of European Union would be possible - just not this overpowering, dictatorial, centralised and corrupt version we have at present.


edit on 3/11/14 by Freeborn because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 3 2014 @ 05:17 PM
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Nothing but a corporate mafia. Out! I'll be voting UKIP, I'll be holding my nose because some of their other policies absolutely stink, but I'll be voting UKIP.



posted on Nov, 3 2014 @ 05:20 PM
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a reply to: grainofsand

I really hope the UK and France tells the EU to go suck it. The EU is Germany and her NAZIS rise to power all over again. Pull out of the EU and see what Germany does. 20 says she allies with Russia AGAIN. Putin hopefully will tell Merkel to go pound sand as well but I think he wont.



posted on Nov, 3 2014 @ 05:32 PM
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originally posted by: DAZ21
OUT, even Merkel has said she may allow us to leave.

I mean I didn't know we needed Germany's permission, but hey.
Just goes to show who really runs the show. It's definitely a double bluff though, the EU needs us more than we need them, and don't believe anyone who tells you otherwise.
One things for sure, and that's that we need a leader with some backbone who isn't becoming the laughing stock of Europe. I mean being told what our domestic policies can and can't be by the Germans is ridiculous. Churchill will be turning in his grave.




Totally agree!!

I was under the impression that we were equal member's of the EU

Seems more like we are shackled prisoners, not being allowed to make

any decisions regarding our own welfare, without it being rubber stamped

by 'Mrs' Merkel!

When ever Brussels is shown on the News its like looking at a wedding ...

all the important people at the top table (Germany and France) the other

minions no where to be seen ....LOL!!

I THINK WE SHOULD LEAVE ... Cameron negotiating a deal ? That's got

to be a joke, it would return to status quo in no time at all.



posted on Nov, 3 2014 @ 05:34 PM
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originally posted by: bastion
- Human Rights Act that protects the rights and freedoms all the main parties want to remove.


Firstly, the UK has always been at the forefront of Human rights - all that Act did was provide people with reason to sue others for perceived breaches, most of which are farcical. We could always have our own Act or Bill of Rights that wasn't so wide ranging to the point prisoners and terrorists can complain about their "rights".


originally posted by: bastion
- Trillions we receive in aid and trade (roughly £200Bn, and £1 trillion from FDI alone) plus the several billion the economy gains from migrant workers.


Trillions in Aid? THe UK gets regional development aid from the EU to the tune of 2.824 Billion - hardly Trillions. Our economy is only about 2 Trillion in size anyway - me thinks you're pulling these numbers out of somewhere dark and musty...

As for FDI, there is no reason this would stop with an EU exit. We get a lot in from the US and China too - in fact, there is no reason we cannot be part of a free trade pact with the EU, which makes your point moot.


originally posted by: bastion
- Nations are outdated ideas - the sooner we see us as all the same, the better.


A nation is not a line in the sand or on the map, it is the people and in that respect, they are not "outdated" in the slightest. I know your a pinko lefty though, so not surprised you feel this way



originally posted by: bastion
- We're a tiny insignificant nation - being part of an £11 trillion economy made of half a billion people gives us far more influence in world affairs and ensuring the future of the country


A $14 Trillion economy of which we make up $2.5 Trillion - 18% in easy to digest figures. As for a "tiny" nation, we're on the UNSC as a permanent member, are one of a few countries with nuclear weapons, have the 6th/7th largest economy in the world and attract far more foreign investment than any of the other EU nations, second only to the US in fact in FDI.


originally posted by: bastion
- 1.6m Uk citizens live in the EU and 3.5m jobs depend on being a member - withdrawing would see at least 5m instantly unemployed and destroy the economy.


No, it wouldn't, because any exit isn't "instant" and it entirely depends on whether we remain in the EEA, like Norway, in which case your point is moot.


originally posted by: bastion
- Access to free healthcare and pensions anywhere in the EU


So? Most people don't need or want "free healthcare or pensions anywhere in the EU", because they live here.


originally posted by: bastion
Environmental mandates have turned toxic beaches into pollution free.


There is absolutely no reason to believe that leaving the EU would mean we suddenly stop caring about the environment - what a daft argument to make.



posted on Nov, 4 2014 @ 10:04 AM
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Again, thanks for all the interesting replies so far

I'm actually surprised at the lack of support for the UK to stay in the EU, as I see it, just one member voicing active support, one sort of sitting on the fence but happy with the principles of EU membership, one who seemed angry and a bit silly, and everyone else wanting out.

I expected more 50/50 responses with my question, so I wonder if ATS members from the UK are representative of the wider populace? I hope so.

Oh, and if you are reading this from other parts of the EU, or the rest of the world, and have an opinion on it please do chime in with your thoughts. Perhaps you are German/French and can't wait to see the back of the UK? Perhaps Eastern European, and concerned that you will no longer have automatic access to unskilled work/benefits in the UK? Perhaps from other English speaking nations who have opinions on direct trade/migration deals with a UK outside of the EU? All of it is interesting to me.

And apologies for not responding earlier IShotMyLastMuse, but I did find your comments interesting:

originally posted by: IShotMyLastMuse
i never lived in the uk, so it's hard to say what situation you are in exactly.
But i am from italy, and ever since we joined (and had to pay a fine because we did not meet the minimum requirements) the place has shot to hell.
especially with the adoption of the Euro.
places like the czech republic or hungary still use their own currency (krown and forint respectively) and they are doing a bit better than italy.
get out if you can, you will be better off,

I would love to hear the thoughts of other EU nationals, hate us, love us, indifferent, want us to stay, want us to go?
Certainly, if the UK gets a vote and chooses out, it will affect much more than the 60 odd million folk here on these islands...



posted on Nov, 4 2014 @ 10:17 AM
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Im all for out for many reasons. It could be a complex poceedure to leave and take a few years but it would allow us remake benifical relations with some countries and loose others.

As for the Amount of out votes I think its because many ATSers have there eyes open and know what is happening in the world around them.

a reply to: grainofsand



posted on Nov, 4 2014 @ 10:27 AM
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I vote OUT

Not for immigration reasons, although there is a good argument to be had relating to the strains on our infrastructure, but for me its about the loss of sovereignty and the insanity of certain laws such as the Human Rights Act ... and I say that as a liberal who does believe in basic rights ....

The only hope we have for an exit is UKIP ... and that leaves a very stale feeling in my mouth ... lets get out of the EU and get rid of UKIP and start the UK again ...



posted on Nov, 4 2014 @ 10:37 AM
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I personally think that with such growing anger towards our EU membership it will be a key vote winner.

Although UKIP are the only ones pushing for it right now I can forsee the other two having to have a referendum on there manifesto to stand any real chance of winning.

Unfortunatley for UKIP if they did both promise a referendum it would be a massive blow to there campain.



posted on Nov, 4 2014 @ 10:51 AM
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originally posted by: nonspecific
I personally think that with such growing anger towards our EU membership it will be a key vote winner.

Although UKIP are the only ones pushing for it right now I can forsee the other two having to have a referendum on there manifesto to stand any real chance of winning.

Unfortunatley for UKIP if they did both promise a referendum it would be a massive blow to there campain.

I agree completely, but getting that referendum is more important to me than any party political issues.
I'm looking at next years election more as a 'vote for a vote' so if all the parties offer it I'll be happy to take that regardless of the result. A year or two of a hung parliament or whatever is worth it if we get the vote on our wider sovereignty and the EU.



posted on Nov, 4 2014 @ 10:54 AM
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originally posted by: johnrobca
The only hope we have for an exit is UKIP ... and that leaves a very stale feeling in my mouth ... lets get out of the EU and get rid of UKIP and start the UK again ...

I share your sentiments exactly



posted on Nov, 4 2014 @ 10:55 AM
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It would be interesting to hear from our resident U kippers on that eventuality. If a referendum and a possible curbing of Imigration was offered by all three parties would you stil vote for Farage?



a reply to: grainofsand



posted on Nov, 4 2014 @ 11:00 AM
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I work in manufacturing. The idea of not being in the EC with th eprospect that at any time trade tariffs could be placed on our products going both ways scares me. The factories here owned by Germans and Japanese that we deal with, well kiss goodbye to them being here in the long term, that is terrifying. My job probably gone. So defo in for me



posted on Nov, 4 2014 @ 11:06 AM
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I'm not sure thats a forgone conclusion if we leave the EU, we will still have trade relations with other EU countries and incentives to offer.

Also surley there must be British companys with operations in EU countries?
a reply to: ufoorbhunter



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