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UK and the EU, do you want in or out?

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posted on Nov, 3 2014 @ 07:38 AM
Inspired by the recent trickle of UKIP and EU threads and todays news that Germany 'would accept UK exit from EU' to protect migration rules I'm starting this OP to ask the general question of should we stay or should we go, and why?

My position is as follows:
I see little benefits for the UK paying billions each year to be members of the EU.
I no longer support automatic right of residence in the UK for unskilled workers or benefit claimants from poorer EU nations. I do not support the free movement of people which is increasing (net) the UK population by 200,000+ each year.
I do not support the extra strains this causes the NHS and state schools.
I support trading agreements with the EU and any other nations, and Germany will still wish to sell BMW's & Mercedes cars to us if we leave the EU. Trade tariff fears? It cuts both ways. I support visa free/friendly travel but no automatic right to work, claim benefits, or access healthcare etc, unless the UK has a need for the skills of the prospective worker.

The UK of course benefits from some immigration, and a points sytem similar to Canada, Australia or NZ is the model I wish for my country. I have no particular axe to grind with any unskilled worker from the EU but I do not support the increased competition such workers create for unskilled UK workers, nor the mass numbers of people this adds to the population.

I know a decent bloke who has bought two houses in his Eastern EU nation, just from labouring on building sites here in the UK. He shares a room in a multiple occupancy rented house and sends most of his money back to his home nation. He is not unique, and as a human being I totally understand his plan and would do exactly the same if I was in his position.
I am not in his position though, and do not support his right to be able to do so.

I am voting UKIP in the election next year, and while realistic that they will be unlikely to form a government, I am hopeful that enough votes their way will force a referendum on the UK's membership of the EU. In the event of such a referendum I shall vote for the UK to leave, or if there is agreement to end the free movement of workers & benefit claimants then I would consider that as a desirable third option. Judging from the comments from Germany though, I suspect in/out is going to be the choice, and I choose out.

Please share your own thoughts on the UK's membership of the EU and your intentions in the coming election/referendum, but lets not go down the silly racist track in this topic, there is enough of that in the other threads and a desire for controlled immigration which is equal to the UK's relationship with non-EU nations is well, not racist, it's sensible.

posted on Nov, 3 2014 @ 07:54 AM
I want us out of the EU, being in it has forced wages down(increased supply of workers) and forced house prices to stupid levels due to increased demand.

posted on Nov, 3 2014 @ 07:55 AM
A year ago I was IN

Now? Im Out unless the EU has some serious changes.

It not even the immigration for me. It the bureaucracy, demands, undemocratic processes, bills, very limited benefit politically and irresponsible economic behaviour of other members.
edit on 3-11-2014 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 3 2014 @ 07:57 AM
a reply to: grainofsand


Trading partners yes, mutual protection policy yes, political and economic integration most certainly no.

Pretty much the same reasons you've given OP.

posted on Nov, 3 2014 @ 08:02 AM
Out. Most definitely.

posted on Nov, 3 2014 @ 08:03 AM
Been doing a bit of googling on that subject, with the Uk sending eight billion pounds a year to brussels, ( where the unelected bureaucrats who run the EU 'work') any loss of income from European trading will be matched by the savings of not sending that eight billion pounds to the EU, so I can quite see why some Brits want to leave.

posted on Nov, 3 2014 @ 08:12 AM
i never lived in the uk, so it's hard to say what situation you are in exactly.
But i am from italy, and ever since we joined (and had to pay a fine because we did not meet the minimum requirements) the place has shot to hell.
especially with the adoption of the Euro.
places like the czech republic or hungary still use their own currency (krown and forint respectively) and they are doing a bit better than italy.
get out if you can, you will be better off,

posted on Nov, 3 2014 @ 08:30 AM
Thanks for the replies so far folks, I see nobody supporting continued membership of the EU yet

To clarify my own position a bit more, I am not a supporter of UKIP as such and my vote for them will be solely because it is the only option wanting out of the EU. My vote will be a political message, not a wish for Nigel Farrage as PM, and I hope if enough people send the same message then leaving the EU will become a realistic chance for us.

I have never had a vote on being in the EU, it has grown through treaties ever since the original free trade agreement in the 70's.
Due to the clear 'out' stance of UKIP this next general election is the closest thing to an EU referendum I have so far had in my life, and my vote will be a shameless single issue on this occasion.

posted on Nov, 3 2014 @ 08:38 AM
As it stands now, most definitely OUT.

Most importantly we need to have an open and honest public debate on the pro's and con's of continued membership of the EU so that the UK public can give an informed decision in a referendum.

As other posters have said - there are obvious benefits of being part of a large free trade association.
I don't see many benefits of political union.
Some sort of federalised Europe could be workable, just not in the current overpowering, dictatorial and centralised version.

posted on Nov, 3 2014 @ 08:49 AM
a reply to: Freeborn
A large free trade association is clearly a benefit for all trading parties involved, and free movement of people (visa waivers and the like) are of course beneficial to commerce, but unrestrained immigration of unskilled workers and/or benefit claimants, or people seeking free healthcare etc is not a situation I see as being of benefit to the UK.

Love or hate UKIP, they are the party that has forced this debate, and such concerns are now being taken seriously by the 'major' political parties solely as a result of UKIP support. That is a good thing in my opinion.

posted on Nov, 3 2014 @ 08:51 AM
a reply to: grainofsand

I'd say 'out' because we are being over-run with Immigrants. I'm not talking about those who have come in peace and just want a better life... I'm talking about those who take the pee! We have even allowed criminals to come over here and not only to continue their criminal ways but to hide here too and if/when caught, they spend time in our Prisons (Instead of being taken back to their own Country).

Those ones who come here to claim Benefits or to beg on streets should go back home.

This doesn't just apply to the EU Country's btw... we have plenty from Asia, ME & Africa too. As they don't come from the EU, what to do about them?

I'd rather have EU members, then the rest TBH but we are over-populated anyway. I think we cant take anymore from anywhere. We need to get rid of the backlog cases of those seeking Asylum, i've read there are over 50,000 still here in England, when they should have gone home and the Home Office don't know where they are, also there are 250,000 still awaiting papers to see if they can stay or not... something like that.
edit on CSTMon, 03 Nov 2014 08:54:48 -0600u3008x048x0 by TruthxIsxInxThexMist because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 3 2014 @ 09:04 AM
a reply to: TruthxIsxInxThexMist
Of course illegal immigration and/or asylum seekers are an issue for every developed nation, and if the Home Office/Border Control got their acts together it is a situation which could be managed. Perhaps if the 8 Billion per year the UK contributes to the EU was diverted to protecting our borders and processing asylum applications we would see a massive improvement in non EU immigration.

I want an end to the unrestrained legal immigration of unskilled workers and benefit claimants from poorer EU nations.
It appears that Germany will block any attempt to change the free movement of people rights so if the only option is out then that is what I shall vote for.

posted on Nov, 3 2014 @ 11:53 AM

We're not really members anyway as we joined on a false prospectus.

At no point have the UK people been asked to join the European Union...if memory serves, it was called the European Economic Community and the Common Market back in the day - never the European Union.

Tory PM Ted Heath signed us up without consulting anyone in 1973; 2 years later, Pm Harold Wilson called a referendum, and this was the question, word for word:

“Do you think that the United Kingdom should stay in the European Community (The Common Market)?”

And to sign us up first and THEN - 2 years down the line - ask us if we want to remain members just isn't cricket.

We should have been asked FIRST.

posted on Nov, 3 2014 @ 11:57 AM
a reply to: grainofsand

most definitely OUT, i am so tired of the idiots in brussels dictating to us , we pay so much into their funds but get so little
of benefit back .

these idiots can't even balance their own books , so how do they expect us to trust them to run europe .

posted on Nov, 3 2014 @ 12:02 PM

For all the same reasons mentioned above.

No one should live in a country where their own government doesn't make the decisions. We're being governed over by an unelected body.

posted on Nov, 3 2014 @ 12:07 PM
Wow a convincing 'out' response so far...I'm almost wishing for an 'in' reply to enjoy a respectful yet robust debate against lol

posted on Nov, 3 2014 @ 12:13 PM
Out, I think all the reasons why have been covered by other members.

The only time I have ever voted (politically) was the last euro election, and I'm not ashamed to admit, I voted UKIP, and I will at the generals too.

The immigration situation in this country is beyond a joke, we can't even kick the terrorists out for fear of breaking the law according to Brussels.

The latest demand for 8bil euros was the final nail as far as I am concerned.

posted on Nov, 3 2014 @ 12:15 PM
Your all putting a simplistic view on it. Look at the facts in front of you not what any political party wants you to believe. Firstly the economy. banks, money men and large investors(investors that can make or break countries) are global. Secondly all large companies are multi national. You cannot hope to compete or try to control these entities by contracting and being nationalistic. As for the migrants, immigrants or asylum seekers it has literally nothing to do with the EU. This is down to our generous social system and it will not make the slightest difference if we are in the EU or out they will still come. If you want the real reason why we are so put upon by the EU is that the majority of members of the EU are socialist and those in power in our government hate them with a vengeance so do all in their power to make it look like the EU is the boogie man. I will give you a prime example. Our MEP for the past few years has openly admitted she hates the EU and is trying her hardest to get us out. Now answer truthfully how could she as our representative have been fighting for our rights and privileges. Everyone has the same rights as the other EU nations but go to any European country and see for yourself what the residents there get. I can only really talk about Spain whose pensioner have a fortnights paid holiday a year courtesy of the EU, they have half price travel all over Spanish territory(that includes flights to Tennerife or Madeira), They have heavily subsidised power. These are only a few things we should be getting but our MEPs are to against the EU because if it really got out just what the ordinary citizen could get you wouldn't even be considering leaving the EU. I wont even get on the subject of the human rights act just you believe them when they say "you don't want that you've got the Magna Carta to protect your rights". What we really,really want in this country is a proper written constitution like the USA .

posted on Nov, 3 2014 @ 12:19 PM
a reply to: grainofsand

Definately out.

Anyone who thinks that the EU won't be desperate to sell to the UK is being silly and short-sighted. If a country has the money to buy the EU will sell. It also wants some of our expertise and would certainly feel the effect of a budget strangulation were the UK's contribution to its budget withdrawn. Its as simple as that.

I also want out because I am sick of hearing foreign languages spoken in our GP's - free medical care and not a penny in the pot to pay for it before one arrives is a great deal for immigrants but a lousy deal for the ordinary people who have to put up delays before seeing a GP, delays for getting into hospital, difficulty selecting the school one wants for the kids, the roads being rat runs and the incessant hunt for jobs and low wages. Something is about to blow and the sooner the better as far as I am concerned. I also want a cap or stop of offering asylum I don't see why people should simplybarge into this country abd expect free housing, health care and operations and the dole - I especially loved the one with the man on my tv saying he had been wounded fighting for ISIS and wanted to get to the UK so he could have free operations and a free house - Yer right buddy whilst the young of my family have to struggle to wait for years to get help with housing - well's see you right won't we!!!

posted on Nov, 3 2014 @ 12:20 PM
a reply to: crayzeed do you want the UK to stay in the EU or not?
Do you support the automatic right of free movement for unskilled workers and benefit claimants, or not?

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