Bodies of 286 Women Found in Donetsk

originally posted by: tavi45
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Hehe doesn't everyone do that?

Yes, the only difference is degrees. It's normal when you hear something, you want it to be true, so you don't look too deep.

It's disgusting when someone proves to you it's false, but because you so badly want it to be true, you continue to talk about how the "evidence" is on your side to get more people to believe something that has been proven to be a lie .. all because it's what you want to be true.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I thought we couldn't know the truth yet. You seem pretty sure of yourself. I guess you have the same issue?

originally posted by: tavi45
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I thought we couldn't know the truth yet. You seem pretty sure of yourself. I guess you have the same issue?

How could we not know the truth when the person who supposedly said this has come forward and said they never said that? The only people saying we don't know the truth yet are the people who like the lie. I proved back on page 1 this was a lie.

The OP has read the sources and has said the source he made the post based on was a lie. Zakharchenko never said this. So my source is not CNN or western media, it's Zakharchenko, on Russian news.

originally posted by: DJW001

You are correct. When I scanned the RAI-Novosti article I wasn't fully awake and read 400 as 4000. Sorry.

Not a problem, thanks for the apology, but it really wasn't necessary.

But people also flee during wartime, don't they? Just because most of the women and children are no longer around when the "freedom fighters" liberate the town does not mean they are in a mass grave.

This is true, people always flee...i dare say this is where a percentage of the missing Women went, they fled.

However, this does not mean that while being occupied by a specialised Army group answerable to the MIA namely the volunteer force named 'Dnepr-1', who were in that place and part of the attempted frame up of the opposition trying to blame them for causing the MH17 disaster.

Images were taken of a BUK missile system supposedly belonging to the Free Ukrainian fighters, when in fact that same particular specialised MIA Army group 'Dnepr-1' (tasked with propaganda duties, false flag duties, and general mayhem and murder), were actually stationed in that town during the time the image of the BUK system was taken...the rebels were not there and of course, the BUK system belonged to the Ukrainian irregulars.

This is the same town the Women have been reported raped and murdered, with many more missing.

So, we have this 'specialised Army group 'Dnepr-1' taking control of Ilovaysk for a time, and while there take an active role in the MH17 disaster and it's attempted blame game frame up.

Interesting to note about this particular bunch of..people, is the UN report that has recently surfaced, which is highly critical of the activities of these Ukrainian volunteer Army groups...

So who are Dnepr-1 special Army group then?

The volunteer Army groups are made up of dozens of units formed recently by Maidan activists and ultra-nationalists of the Right Sector umbrella group, in Ukraine.

During their assistance in Kiev's assault on the eastern region, such volunteer groups have been reported to be using alarming and questionable tactics.

Here's what the 16th September 2014 report from the United Nations High Commissioner on Human Rights had to say about these volunteer Army Groups directed by the Ministry of Internals Affairs operating out of Kiev and in theatre in East Ukraine.

Of particular mention by the UN, for serious ethical question marks raised over their actions in theatre, are our old friends..Specialised Army Group Dnepr-1 !

Here's a link to the UN report if you fancy a read;

OHCHR Report on Ukraine

The recent UN report on the human rights situation in Ukraine covering the period of August 18 to September 16 accused volunteer battalions, such as Dnepr-1, of violating international humanitarian law – "including the principles of military necessity, distinction, proportionality and precaution."

Specific evidence of “beatings, poor nutrition and lack of medical assistance” are also mentioned in the report.

The UN expressed special concern over the "enforced disappearances, arbitrary detention and ill-treatment allegedly perpetrated by members of the volunteer battalions," in particular Dnepr-1. "The government needs to exercise more control over all of its forces, including the volunteer battalions, and to ensure accountability for any violations and crimes committed by their members," the UN report stated.

(emphasis is mine)

RT

The leader of this unit Dnepr-1, who had it on his toes and basically legged it and left his unit in the stink surrounded in Ilovaysk, a certain choice individual going by the name of 'Yury Bereza'.

Bereza, who is now also an MP in Kiev as well as an Army field commander, has gone on the TV record recently (filmed) and claimed his men (Dnepr-1) are ready to cross into the Russian Federation, and carry out Terrorist acts, including bombings and other terror related activities while there..he had to effectively be told to shut his mouth by the Ukrainian show's host...as it would 'make people nervous'. (according to the TV host)

I've said it several times why i'm prepared to believe atrocities like this have happened, because they do, often.

You might ask yourself why you choose to believe one possible explanation over another.

I'd say if i didn't believe it, i'd be as naive or blinkered as you apparently are.

Given the evidence available, although unproven, it is highly likely that this 'specialised' Army group while stationed in that town, probably brought down MH17 with the very BUK system they then tried unsuccessfully to blame the opposition with using.

They're lead by somewhat of a coward, who left his men to face being surrounded and go on to sustain heavy casualties while he ran away to safety, who now has gone on live TV and bragged how he is ready to cross the Russian border, unprovoked, and cause terrorist acts and bombings inside Russia...and plans to be drinking in the ruins of the Kremlin soon...uh huh...that's what he said before being shut up by the TV host.

And you wonder why i'm inclined to believe these animals and agitators could have raped and murdered hundreds of Women while stationed there?

You seriously wonder how i could possibly suspect these men, hailing from a 'specialised' Army group, who have received special attention and warnings for their behaviour in theatre from the UN no less, capable of being responsible for raping and murdering all these Woman..?

Wonder no more...if you don't see why it is very possible, you won't and that'll be that.

a reply to: MysterX

Not for nothing but there are several threads about the MH17 incident, including links to russian media covering the fact rebels gained control of BUK missile systems.

As for the topic -
Do you believe the reports coming from civilians under rebel control who have stated the rebels were doing summary executions of civilians?

a reply to: MysterX

So, despite the lack of evidence and the recantation of the person who supposedly made the allegation, you are going to continue to believe the story and accuse me of being "blinkered." I think we've reached an understanding.

As for the excesses of some militia units, I have never denied nor defended them. The results of the recent election have justified my belief that the far right does not have the support of the majority of Ukrainians. Neither Right Sector nor Svoboda reached the 5% of the votes needed to win a seat in Parliament.

I had hoped that you would learn to understand the concept of the Potemkin Number. It is an extremely useful tool in weeding out lies, whether its 286 invisible corpses or 57 invisible card carrying Communists in the State Department.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Yes, there are several MH17 threads...but do they deal specifically with the specialised MIA Army group 'Dnepr-1' and it's connection to that place, while the BUK photo was taken and purported to be in control of the rebels, when in fact Dnepr-1 had it under their control?

Do the threads also detail that the same Army group Dnepr-1, following the attempted but failed frame up are now embroiled in harsh criticism from the UN in that report?

And do they also make the connection with MH17, contrived BUK photos taken by Dnepr-1, 400 missing Women from the place Dnepr-1 were stationed with allegations of raping and murdering many of them and last but not least, Dnepr-1 commander has openly stated on TV that his unit are intent of illegally crossing the Russian border, Illegally targeting Russia, and Illegally creating terror using terrorism and bombings?

I don't think any of them are.

a reply to: learnatic

Well who do you think did it the Chinese?

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: MysterX

As for the excesses of some militia units, I have never denied nor defended them. The results of the recent election have justified my belief that the far right does not have the support of the majority of Ukrainians. Neither Right Sector nor Svoboda reached the 5% of the votes needed to win a seat in Parliament.

No, you haven't denied or defended them..any of them to my knowledge...but then again, you haven't particularly condemned them or cited their record in the field, as reported by the UN either. One would imagine, when talking about war atrocities and 'specialised units' hell bent on terrorism and causing mayhem, that might have caused you pause when asking me how i could think such a thing could have happened and what would cause me to think that way...you really ought to have your answer to that by now.

Not achieving 5% support in elections, does not in any way shape or form preclude or exclude these people from forming Army units and committing hate and war crimes as they go...even at 1%, that is a great many fascists roaming the East looking for blood and victims in occupied towns.

I had hoped that you would learn to understand the concept of the Potemkin Number. It is an extremely useful tool in weeding out lies, whether its 286 invisible corpses or 57 invisible card carrying Communists in the State Department.

Frankly, in regards the post you're answering, i do not see the relevance of your peculiar magic number theory.

If i were you, i wouldn't worry about what you imagine i do or don't understand, it's not your concern either way...concentrate on your own comprehension and i'll do likewise...but thanks all the same.

a reply to: MysterX

Frankly, in regards the post you're answering, i do not see the relevance of your peculiar magic number theory.

It is not peculiar, nor is it magic; it is an important critical thinking tool. If you want to continue to believe blatant lies, you have no need for it.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: MysterX

Not for nothing but there are several threads about the MH17 incident, including links to russian media covering the fact rebels gained control of BUK missile systems.

As for the topic -
Do you believe the reports coming from civilians under rebel control who have stated the rebels were doing summary executions of civilians?

I have no information on such reports...but it wouldn't surprise me if they were true.

You see...i'm perfectly willing to believe both sides can commit war crimes and terrorism for their own ends.

This has been answered by me already...i am willing to believe because there is ample bloody precedent of these atrocities and subsequent elaborate stitch ups, lies, subterfuge and denials...this is what war crimes tribunals and hearings are for, and i expect the Hague to have it's books quite full after this debacle has ended.

All those committing war crimes and crimes against Humanity must pay, not one side over another, but all of the guilty whichever flag they fly.

Yes the rebels gained a BUK system...it was the one the captured from Ilovaisk from the hands of the Dnepr-1 Army group, who had earlier taken photos of it at Ilovaisk, while the town was still under the control of Dnepr-1..after they routed them, the rebels captured the hardware and proved the photos were faked to cause the world to blame the rebels for MH17, the intention being to lose them support and sympathy around the world.

a reply to: DJW001

I have no need of a number system that assigns arbitrary ridiculousness to number values, while ignoring their validity as normal, everyday numbers..you're right.

a reply to: MysterX

I have no need of a number system that assigns arbitrary ridiculousness to number values, while ignoring their validity as normal, everyday numbers..you're right.

You clearly do not understand the concept because you have not read my posts in full nor clicked on the links provided. The motto here is to deny ignorance, not flaunt it.

a reply to: MysterX

The images showing rebels and the BUK can be found in an RT article. They captured some from a Ukrainian supply base a month or so prior.

Separatist leader Aleksandr Chodakovski gave an interview to the Dutch newspaper de Volkskrant on Tuesday and once again confirmed the Separatists had a BUK system, but denied again they have shot it down.

So still both options as to Kiev or Separatists were responsible are possible, and even Russians still could have done it.

And there`s still no proof to accuse either side.

a reply to: MysterX

I have no need of a number system that assigns arbitrary ridiculousness to number values, while ignoring their validity as normal, everyday numbers..you're right.

Rather than waste my time on this thread, I have started a new one here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...