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Thoughts on Organized Religion

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posted on Nov, 6 2014 @ 10:22 PM
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originally posted by: Not Authorized
Greetings,

I am looking for a bit of advice from our agnostic and atheist members. Recently, I've been thinking about the generalized acceptance of humanities organized religions. I'm finding myself seriously wondering if society as a whole, can continue to accept how we currently handle them and, well, survive.

Basically, I've recognized the very dark disconnect with reality said organizations can bring.

And before anyone freaks out, I'm not saying to ban books, human spirituality, or, anything about said quest. Nor, start closing down churches. Far from it.

What I mean is, it must be admitted by casual observers, that some organized religions have, and, are far more destructive to society, education, science, rights, etc, than others. Rather, it seems that fiction presented as unchallenged fact, without a reasonable chance to offer retort, is perpetuating Roman Era mythology. Not just in my nation, but others too.

How do we solve this, moving forward, without infringing on their rights as outlined in a secular society? Note I said secular, not divine right my religion is better than yours based. Should like minded individuals start to discuss using the education system more directly to remedy this? Perhaps a curriculum formed and focused on true history vs claimed and religiously biased and fabricated history? To give our youth knowledge, and, education to use against said claims? Or, do we wait for the millennials to reach critical mass to change the spirit of the age using sheer numbers?

How about supporting education through media? Sort of like Star Trek TNG writers did with the number 42? Simply just written in, without fanfare? What about using Dan Brown's novels, and, over reaction against them, as a template? He seems to have touched a tender spot. Imagine focusing on scripture breaking errors, and not Gnostic texts.

Any thoughts and ideas on how to reach a modern secular society? Simply just saturate the masses with truth until proof of said claims is demanded on a wide scale, rather than silently accepting the geocentric model of the universe is still true?

Thanks for your time.


Tell you what why don’t you start writing about Mohamed and Islam and see if it strikes a nerve. Dan Brown attacked the only religion that would not cut his head off and to me that is a person without any balls.




posted on Nov, 7 2014 @ 01:23 AM
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originally posted by: 74joff
a reply to: Tangerine

So...Ok what was the point of doing that in Sth America?
Do you have any numbers for the Reformed denominations in Sth American nations.

Still don't see the point if they are a small minority there.


I don't know how you missed the point. I stated it quite clearly. Scroll back and read my previous posts.



posted on Nov, 7 2014 @ 01:31 AM
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An atheist is a person who saw organized religion for what it was but forgot to see God along the way and got lost



posted on Nov, 7 2014 @ 06:48 AM
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a reply to: 74joff

Ok, I'll do that. I hate ALL religions. They all make HUGE assumptions about how our universe works without any evidence to back those assumptions up then repeat that as the truth. Until it can be shown the spiritual side of the universe exists, then we have no business saying that it does. Because if it does exist, we certainly aren't describing it correctly (and that goes for any religion).



posted on Nov, 7 2014 @ 07:19 AM
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originally posted by: xkillbox5000x
An atheist is a person who saw organized religion for what it was but forgot to see God along the way and got lost


Aw *snap*!

I knew I forgot something!




posted on Nov, 7 2014 @ 09:04 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

This is the first I've heard of Atheistic churches. Do you have more information? How do they feel about those who are secular and agnostic?



posted on Nov, 7 2014 @ 09:09 AM
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a reply to: Tangerine

Plenty of points have been missed is this thread. I would consider you one of the better contributors. I wish to extend my thanks to you.



posted on Nov, 7 2014 @ 09:21 AM
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a reply to: Spiramirabilis

I do not envision a group of people determining anything. Why not use existing academic standards, or, rules of evidence on how we handle modern day mythologies in education of all flavors? Generally, I think people should be away from said process as much as possible

With that in mind, I agree with your post. Eg, how to think, not what to think.

Thank you for contributing. :-)



posted on Nov, 7 2014 @ 12:15 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

Thank you for the links. I will research into them. Have you personally participated in any of them?

If so, what is it like?




posted on Nov, 7 2014 @ 12:24 PM
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a reply to: Not Authorized

No I haven't. I heard about them here on ATS like half a year ago. I wouldn't join an atheist church anyways. I feel like they would fall to the same failings and trappings of non-secular churches.



posted on Nov, 7 2014 @ 01:10 PM
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There seems to be a fundamental problems with all beliefs and religion. they are leading us to kill each other. History has shown that there are more disadvantages wherever religions exists than advantages. Knowledge is suppress, over superstitions and control is exercised rather than true freedom of expression.

We can no longer pretend that religion is harmless. We must finally recognize the price we are paying to maintain the iconography of ignorance.



posted on Nov, 7 2014 @ 04:38 PM
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originally posted by: xkillbox5000x
An atheist is a person who saw organized religion for what it was but forgot to see God along the way and got lost


Why don't you post a photo of God so we can see him. This is your big opportunity. Take advantage of it.



posted on Nov, 7 2014 @ 10:09 PM
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a reply to: Not Authorized

Thank you for your response. I notice you failed to cite any instances of insults, red-herring-starting or aggressive behaviour in my posts. This doesn't surprise me, of course, because there haven't been any. But not having been able to make your previous accusations stick hasn't — I also notice — prevented you from chucking a few new ones.


Sticking to the playbook as expected. Some of us recognize that too. What is the next step after attempting to discredit? Go ahead.

So this is how it's done, is it, now that it's against the rules to openly call someone a 'paid shill' on ATS? You talk about playbooks and the 'next step after attempting to discredit' instead. Rather clumsy, I call it. Also rather sad. It's always the ones with no argumentative leg to stand on who stoop to this kind of accusation.

I'm still waiting for your explanation of 'collapsing probability waves'. I'm not interested in Google's. I want yours.


edit on 7/11/14 by Astyanax because: IMprobability waves.



posted on Nov, 8 2014 @ 01:36 AM
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a reply to: Tangerine
There are a million clever replies to this, but because nonsense is not sense to you yet I'll refrain from stooping that low.

What I meant by my statement is that Objectivist minds and objectivist thinkers have taken a crucial step in what I'm going to simply call the real spiritual path. I realize I first generalized to all atheists, but most atheists are just blinded by a different type of faith aka they don't think they just regurgitate things they've heard from other people.

So again the objectivist, he is true to rationality and observant analysis, the real embodiment of trust...but verify as most objectivists I have met are not completely consumed by fear and seem to have a certain amount of satisfaction gained from life. I would imagine that you would in some form or another identify with an objectivist point of view, if not, I apologize.

Continuing, something the objectivist is want to do in life is to attempt to discard as much "unnecessary" emotion in their life as well as scoff at the idea of there being a world of sense perception that surrounds us and is within us that is beyond what can be witnessed with the 5. I bring up emotion because it is inherently to with what we perceive with our senses at any given time. Neurons fire, emotion is recieved, chemicals release and the body feels satisfied or dissatisfied with the results.

In an effort to stop from rambling too much on way too many topics. A lot of people look at ancient wisdom traditions of all forms and have found ahhh, they seem to actually be metaphorically describing physical processes in the body and in the universe around us and the idea of "as above so below" "external and internal symmetry" The tao, male and female etc etc etc. I don't care there's a lot of information hidden in a ton of poetic babble and I totally understand why you would simply just write it off without further thought or a little bit of imagination.

I know I'm not being helpful at all, but taking an enormous canvas and painting a masterful picture takes much time and I already know that you will only see the details of the picture rather than the feeling I put into it so why bother painting it for you just yet. That's why the people who really know, the ones who really drive you nuts, the people who truly get you thinking, vs the ones who are easy to pick on (the typical christian evangelical for example) don't bother making it perfectly clear. It's hard, it takes a lot o time, we have put a lot of personal time and effort into the act of understanding and I'll be honest this path is not for the lazy and not for the weak.

The truth of God is he is you and you are him. We are all individual projections of the same energy field



posted on Nov, 8 2014 @ 02:10 AM
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a reply to: Not Authorized

No actually I wanted you to respond to my first post in this thread [post=18631225] regrading the fact that the RC basically controls large chunks of our global system especially Education because you said this thread should be about how education could be used to destroy religious ignorance. Well those questions by me are excellent do you have response.

I mean do you deny that the Catholic church owns everything from kindergartens to Universities do you know of Notre Dame University its global in several countries. .Theres a plethora of big and small catholic schools one of the biggest is called Riverview or St Ignatius (run by Jesuits) another is called St Josephs another is Marist brothers, Xavier, so forth... the list goes on thy are very big schools only families who can afford to spend $100s of thousands AU a year in school fees send their sons, daughters to them they are extremely elitist.
In Australia there's two RC Universities of note Notre Dame & "Australian Catholic University" they are big and successful enough.They are without doubt religious universities do you still insist Religion for example is about ignorance and does not encourage education or science well it seem these facts about the RCs Elite Schools & Universities flies in the face of your claims and presumptions or do you exclude RCs from your secular humanist crusade. Hell Australia's PM Abbott trained at Jesuit seminary i think he still one!.

Religion is not dying its growing sublimely if anything the RCs power is front of your eyes but you don't even see it seems you have blind spot i must assume your letting RCs off the hook were you baptised and raised catholic by any chance!.
There is a reason conspiracy theorists of any note believe a "One World Religion" is coming and will come this would indicate religion is far from done with this planet yet l believe those predictions or prophecies regarding Rome.
edit on 8-11-2014 by 74joff because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 8 2014 @ 02:29 AM
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a reply to: Tangerine




I don't know how you missed the point. I stated it quite clearly. Scroll back and read my previous posts.

I didnt miss them. I just dont see the reason in them doing that?
In Majority catholic continent!. You know so much about it please elaborate on what the strategy was? Were they trying to push more pro capitalist dictators like Pinchot ( i think was catholic) by tying them to evangelicals or what?
edit on 8-11-2014 by 74joff because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 8 2014 @ 02:26 PM
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originally posted by: 74joff
a reply to: Tangerine




I don't know how you missed the point. I stated it quite clearly. Scroll back and read my previous posts.

I didnt miss them. I just dont see the reason in them doing that?
In Majority catholic continent!. You know so much about it please elaborate on what the strategy was? Were they trying to push more pro capitalist dictators like Pinchot ( i think was catholic) by tying them to evangelicals or what?


The agenda was to get local political support for whichever program the CIA was pushing at the moment: the overthrow of a democratically elected government, the installation of a dictator, whatever. The CIA uses whatever works to achieve their ends. In case you don't know, evangelical protestantism has made significant inroads in Latin and South America. Yes, these places are predominantly Catholic and Catholicism is well-controlled by the Church. Hence the need to introduce something new to get new results.



posted on Nov, 8 2014 @ 02:26 PM
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Let's cut the crap and recognize religion for what it is. It was a way for primitive man to explain away things in nature he could not understand and at the same time give himself a powerful conduit to become the emissary of gods, and in many cases to become a god himself. This is evident when you read posts from characters like AlephBet, who pretend to have "special' knowledge, when in fact under close scrutiny it's just unsubstantiated mumble jumble.
Did you ever wonder why you believe in a particular god? It has more to do with your geology and clan your born into than any so called truth. Religion should be taught as such, a primitive belief system and nothing more..



posted on Nov, 8 2014 @ 09:43 PM
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a reply to: Spiramirabilis


I think this is why you've been running into opposition - which like minded individuals are going to decide what - and for who?

Precisely — thank you, Spiramirabilis. The OP is recommending the creation of a group of elite conspirators to influence educational policy. He or she may not realize it, but that is what their proposal amounts to.


Like minded individuals getting together to decide how to steer civilization in the right direction? Well, if it's not right for the religious to decide these things for everyone, why should it be any more right for anyone else?

Nail on the head. Star for you.




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