Thoughts on Organized Religion

Think for a moment, IF you were God, and you felt like creating these fleshy little beings called Homo sapiens sapiens, why would you NOT give them a free will? We will have advanced brains, our own thoughts. We are not puppets on strings. He/She would soon be bored sick with us.

We are made in His image and likeness. We have a free will, because God has a free will.

a reply to: Astyanax

a reply to: Ignatian

Our preconceived notions, our thoughts, ideas, our fantasies, who really knows their ultimate background origins, what brings them to our mind? I choose to believe they are inspired by The Holy Spirit, based on real life experiences, that were also instigated by God.

Surely all our ideas are not inspired by the Holy Spirit? I was once inspired by John 10:16 to write a story about a God that was a slave to His own creation, obliged to incarnate Himself on world after world throughout the universe in the form of the sentient entities native to each world, in order that He might be sacrificed in order to atone for the evil and suffering of His creation? I was inspired, incidentally, to tell the story in the first person — the speaker being that particular incarnation which appeared in first-century Palestine about two thousand years ago. Do you think the Holy Spirit inspired me to do that?

You decide, nobody else.

I'm not disputing that. But how free is my decision?

My point is that I cannot but choose that which I choose.

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: Ignatian

Our preconceived notions, our thoughts, ideas, our fantasies, who really knows their ultimate background origins, what brings them to our mind? I choose to believe they are inspired by The Holy Spirit, based on real life experiences, that were also instigated by God.

Surely all our ideas are not inspired by the Holy Spirit? I was once inspired by John 10:16 to write a story about a God that was a slave to His own creation, obliged to incarnate Himself on world after world throughout the universe in the form of the sentient entities native to each world, in order that He might be sacrificed in order to atone for the evil and suffering of His creation? I was inspired, incidentally, to tell the story in the first person — the speaker being that particular incarnation which appeared in first-century Palestine about two thousand years ago. Do you think the Holy Spirit inspired me to do that?

You decide, nobody else.

I'm not disputing that. But how free is my decision?



My point is that I cannot but choose that which I choose.

Just because you dont believe in god doesnt make god unreal for anyone. Perhaps all our ideas are inspired by the Holy Spirit from within.

Who is to say you yourself wont come face to face with god within yourself at the end of your time, when your fleshy form falls to ruin, also known as physical death.

A blind person may not see the sun but that doesnt mean its not there or that they cannot feel its warmth.

a reply to: FormOfTheLord

Just because you don't believe in Zeus doesn't make Him unreal for anyone. Who is to say you won't come face to face with Cerberus at the end of your time, when your fleshy form falls to ruin, also known as physical death.

A blind person may not see Mt. Olympus but that doesn't mean its not there or that they cannot feel its warmth.

Well, considering that I believe the next beat of your heart is allowed by God, I would say yes, your inspiration is ultimately from your inner spirit. Your conscience. God.

VERY interesting reply. Lol. Coincidental? I believe in UFOs. Why? Cuz I've seen, like 6
Of them on different occasions, with witnesses. My own eyes. Verified by a fellow, rational human being. My dad chased a UFO as a military pilot in the 50s. He swears to this day to his episode, and it changed his view, he's a UFO nut, in his 80s. He has no reason to lie, And as Christian as any good Catholic can be.

We've talked about this verse, John10:16, at length. It makes sense. It fits to our eyewitness testimony.

"I have OTHER sheep...." Uh, let me tell ya, yes, HE does....and they ain't sheep!!!

What gives me shivers, is our quiet conversation together concluded with a summation that played a scenario, very similar to the story you "dreamed up". TOO cool!



a reply to: Astyanax

originally posted by: GetHyped
a reply to: FormOfTheLord



Just because you don't believe in Zeus doesn't make Him unreal for anyone. Who is to say you won't come face to face with Cerberus at the end of your time, when your fleshy form falls to ruin, also known as physical death.



A blind person may not see Mt. Olympus but that doesn't mean its not there or that they cannot feel its warmth.

Now your getting it right!

originally posted by: Ignatian
Well, considering that I believe the next beat of your heart is allowed by God, I would say yes, your inspiration is ultimately from your inner spirit. Your conscience. God.



VERY interesting reply. Lol. Coincidental? I believe in UFOs. Why? Cuz I've seen, like 6

Of them on different occasions, with witnesses. My own eyes. Verified by a fellow, rational human being. My dad chased a UFO as a military pilot in the 50s. He swears to this day to his episode, and it changed his view, he's a UFO nut, in his 80s. He has no reason to lie, And as Christian as any good Catholic can be.
We've talked about this verse, John10:16, at length. It makes sense. It fits to our eyewitness testimony.
"I have OTHER sheep...." Uh, let me tell ya, yes, HE does....and they ain't sheep.
What gives me shivers, is our quiet conversation together concluded with a summation that played a scenario, very similar to the story you "dreamed up". TOO cool!
a reply to: Astyanax

I agree good post, it amazes me how others wish to define reality for all, almost likened to the Inquisition many on ATS whose aim is to combat heresy in faith based belief because they have none. Like believing in god or the divine in all is a crime.

Zeus wasn't pre announced by anyone. Jesus was pre announced, prophesied...predicted. It's the LEAST a real God could do.

God is real, Zeus is not. a reply to: FormOfTheLord

originally posted by: Ignatian
Zeus wasn't pre announced by anyone. Jesus was pre announced, prophesied...predicted. It's the LEAST a real God could do.



God is real, Zeus is not. a reply to: FormOfTheLord

If god appeared to someone as Zeus and they believed in god as Zeus and it was real to them, who are you to tell them otherwise LOLZ. Just because you dont believe in Zeus, didnt make god as Zeus any less real those who did have faith in him.

You use the word "if", as in, a hypothetical, fantasy, make-believe. In reality, I've never met anyone who claims Zeus as their God.

I'm using the word "is", as in, reality.

Muslims call God "Allah". I call God, well, God. I know there's lots of other names for Him/Her, I just say.... God.


a reply to: FormOfTheLord

a reply to: Ignatian

Think for a moment, IF you were God, and you felt like creating these fleshy little beings called Homo sapiens sapiens, why would you NOT give them a free will?

Why think for a moment? God has all eternity in which to do His thinking.

And thinking upon the question of awarding His creatures free will, He might have thought somwhat like this. 'Yes, I can easily give these guys free will. But if I do, they're bound to get up to all kinds of mischief and cause no end of pain and suffering, not just to themselves but to every other form of life that has the bad luck to brush up against them. They really can't help it — even if I made them little paragons one and all, they still wouldn't have the foresight to see how their actions will turn out. They're not omniscient, like Me...

'I suppose I could still give them free will, but — since I'm in charge of the options they get to choose from — fix it so they only get a range of more or less positive ones. Then they won't be able to help doing good and everything will be happy and peaceful. Hm... bit boring, though. Almost as boring as not giving them free will at all. Scratch that idea.

'Medammit, what shall I do? Oh, wait, I'm omnipotent, I already know what I'll do. I'll... give them free will anyway! Let the little critters have their fun! Let them bash each other and set fire to a few things. A bit of suffering is character-forming. And I'll let them into Heaven afterwares, so it'll all be okay really. Or wait — I could make it like a test, and let only the ones who are really truly sorry in! I could invent a set of rules for them to keep, and some even weird stuff for them to believe in, and make it part of the test, too. And of course, I get to choose who passes! Sounds like a plan!

'Free will it is, then.'

Do you really think the divine soliloquy went like that? But how else could it have gone?

originally posted by: Ignatian
You use the word "if", as in, a hypothetical, fantasy, make-believe. In reality, I've never met anyone who claims Zeus as their God.
I'm using the word "is", as in, reality.
Muslims call God "Allah". I call God, well, God. I know there's lots of other names for Him/Her, I just say.... God.
a reply to: FormOfTheLord

Ive never met you or your family either, yet people believe you to be real, I dont doubt you are lolz. Doesnt mean we are ever going to meet still your as real as those who know you think you are. I guess. . . .

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: Ignatian

Think for a moment, IF you were God, and you felt like creating these fleshy little beings called Homo sapiens sapiens, why would you NOT give them a free will?

Why think for a moment? God has all eternity in which to do His thinking.

And thinking upon the question of awarding His creatures free will, He might have thought somwhat like this. 'Yes, I can easily give these guys free will. But if I do, they're bound to get up to all kinds of mischief and cause no end of pain and suffering, not just to themselves but to every other form of life that has the bad luck to brush up against them. They really can't help it — even if I made them little paragons one and all, they still wouldn't have the foresight to see how their actions will turn out. They're not omniscient, like Me...

'I suppose I could still give them free will, but — since I'm in charge of the options they get to choose from — fix it so they only get a range of more or less positive ones. Then they won't be able to help doing good and everything will be happy and peaceful. Hm... bit boring, though. Almost as boring as not giving them free will at all. Scratch that idea.

'Medammit, what shall I do? Oh, wait, I'm omnipotent, I already know what I'll do. I'll... give them free will anyway! Let the little critters have their fun! Let them bash each other and set fire to a few things. A bit of suffering is character-forming. And I'll let them into Heaven afterwares, so it'll all be okay really. Or wait — I could make it like a test, and let only the ones who are really truly sorry in! I could invent a set of rules for them to keep, and some even weird stuff for them to believe in, and make it part of the test, too. And of course, I get to choose who passes! Sounds like a plan!

'Free will it is, then.'

Do you really think the divine soliloquy went like that? But how else could it have gone?

You're on the right path. *wink*. Keep pealing back the layers. You're getting "it"

God Bless you, grace and peace to you.

a reply to: FormOfTheLord

Perhaps all our ideas are inspired by the Holy Spirit from within.

I believe the novel Finnegan's Wake has been said to contain an example of the Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

Could the Holy Spirit inspire someone to blaspheme against the Holy Spirit?

We're taught that blaspheming the Holy Spirit is about as bad an act anyone can do. Violating your conscience, and doing something you KNOW in your heart is wrong, blasphemes the Holy Spirit.

But sinning, is also blaspheming the Holy Spirit, because by doing so, we are breaking our baptismal vows. "In what you say, what you do, or what you fail to do."

Sin is, therefore, against our nature, it's not WHY we were created. The fact that we do sin, is in fact, evidence that we have a free will.

a reply to: Astyanax

a reply to: Ignatian

You're on the right path. *wink*. Keep pealing back the layers. You're getting "it".

And this is where it always ends, with nods, winks and evasions. Thank you for your courtesy and evident good intentions, but it is simply not satisfactory.

What is this 'it' I'm supposed to be getting? Have you got 'it'? If so, why not explain? Can't be explained in words? What nonsense. Everything is explicable in words. That is what words are for — explaining.

We're taught that blaspheming the Holy Spirit is about as bad an act anyone can do. Violating your conscience, and doing something you KNOW in your heart is wrong, blasphemes the Holy Spirit.

Er, no. Did you say you are a Catholic? Then you ought to know this. Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit — the Bible is very specific about it — is the one sin God will never forgive. If that is the case, would the Holy Spirit really inspire someone to commit that sin? If that's Christian doctrine, it's Calvinistic predestination gone mad. Didn't you say, repeatedly, that you believe in free will? There's none to be had in that scenario.

You also said this:

Sin is against our nature.

Again, this is not Christian doctrine in any shape of form. St. Augustine made it very clear that original sin is the natural state of humanity; even a babe at the breast is a fallen creature with a natural propensity to do evil. It's right there in the Confessions, almost at the beginning. It remains Christian orthodoxy to this day.

You have remarkable beliefs for someone who professes Christianity.

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: FormOfTheLord

Perhaps all our ideas are inspired by the Holy Spirit from within.

I believe the novel Finnegan's Wake has been said to contain an example of the Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.
Could the Holy Spirit inspire someone to blaspheme against the Holy Spirit?

Sure the holy spirit/god/the big bang/singularity could in theory inspire you to do anything, for example self mortification.

Think of war, disease, famine, hate, materialism etc
Think of peace, immortality, abundance, universal love, selflessness etc
None of could exist without the holy spirit/god/the big bang/singularity in theory.

I guess whats the holy spirit to some may be the big bang to others, take your pick its still the same, only the name changes.

When thoughts get institutionalized is usually where they start going wrong.

I'll reapond to the blasheme thing later, im only popping in, on my way to RCIA, where i sponsor.

We were created to know, love and serve God. Anything otherwise (sin) would be against our nature. It was in that sense, I meant human nature. I coulda and shoulda worded that differently. It is against the purpose, for which we were created.

God didnt create Adam and Eve to specifically disobey Him. It was their choice, their free will. It's that stain of original sin that is washed away at baptism. But, it's that original sin that gives us our concupiscence, out "natural" tendency to sin, as human beings. "Our sinful nature". Our sinful, human nature.

To deny that we have free will, defies reason to me. I say again, we're not puppets on strings. You think we are, and are not ultimately responsible or our actions?

Our free will causes us to sin. And it's sin, that proves we have a free will! It's reasonable, logical.



a reply to: Astyanax

If you don’t know or think that organized history is true and correct then you have not even began to understand the adage that history is written by the victors.
a reply to: Not Authorized